You are the man Forge.
I just had this same discussion with some of my family members. If you dont vote, you dont have a right to complain, so even if you support my side of the arguement, do me a favor and STFU!!!! or VOTE

That's what's always amazed me, Gardenforge. The Iraqis , since this thing began, have never seemed to be too interested in regaining control over their own country. They seem to be perfectly content to sit back and watch us do all the work-complaining about us while we're covering their tails for them, you know, like good little welfare recipients. Now the Parliment wants to take the month of August off-and why? I guess because it's too hot there in August. I heard that temps can get up to 130 degrees during August there. So they want to high-tail it to a cooler locale. What about the American soldiers there? Shouldn't THEY get a break? I mean, they're only doing all the work there. Wether anyone's for or against this war, we're there, and our troops are doing an excellent job. It's just too bad the people our troops are helping won't step up and take responsibility for their own future. But, as I said earlier, just like good little welfare recipients.

i don't think there will be a troop withdrawal of any kind as long as he is in office and nothing close to a full withdrawal after the election no matter which party wins.

king, i hope there wont be a "withdrawl" until we finish what we have started.

all i'm saying is that with all of the democrats talk of a withdrawal, i'm willing to bet that if they get someone in as president they will find a reason to leave the majority of the troops there.

yah. BECAUSE WERE NOT DONE YET.

MY FEAR is that they will pull out as soon as they are in power, regardless of the consequences. if we do that we will look very bad indeed to the rest of the world, and any Iraquis who have collaborated with us will be killed within days of the pullout. The sad truth is that we must do exactly what bush says, stay the course. we simply must see this one through or the ramifications will be far worse than if we had stayed.

Maybe they should be. You really dont believe that the current Iraqi government is a Democracy, do you?

And, let me get this right, your saying that even if we stay for 20 yrs, that we should stay until we finish.
What exactly would you consider the job done?

When we create WWIII, cause we could go ahead and Nuke the whole region, and be done with that!

Or would you consider it finish when we cow down the population to a point where they accept the leadership we want them to have. Because I dont think thats ever going to happen.

Im interested, when would you say we are finished?

We didnt give a rats ass what the rest of the world thought when we started this illegal war. Why should we care when we end it?
Or did you forget that part?

Fanta now pakistan is whining "we need americas help!!". Now THAT is enough to make me SHUDDER. Like we can TRUST that one? I rock the vote every time. Right or wrong with Iraq I dont remember AMERICA taking the war to Iraq. I remember them bringing it HERE on 9/11.

..Democrat, republican = Good cop, bad cop -
Same agenda. Do the bidding of financiers.
If voting could change anything, it'd be illegal!
Does anyone think that the one million Iraqis who perished as a result of the genocidal sanctions on Clinton's watch are any less dead than those who were shot/blown up/tortured on Bush's?
Does any candidate with his heart in the right place have the money to throw at creating a favourable media image as Bush's ilk?

..And I love you guys who think your responsabilities as a citizen
begins and ends with voting..

Hey, Barbiesbigsister -
If I were you, I'd re-examine your "memory" - Those were'nt
Iraqis on those planes - They were'nt even Afghani - They were
SAUDIs, our dictatorial "allies"!

like i said
this guys gonna start
a revilotion here
theres more people talkin about it
then ever
every where you go you here it

George Dubya doesnt want to "look" bad and pull out of the war!!! This will make America appear weak. So........he would rather have your countrymen die so he doesnt look like the wuss he really is!!!

Barbie:

Iraq did NOT "bring it(the war)here on 9/11" as you say. Need I remind you of:

1-Of the 19 hijackers, 14 were Saudis.

2-Bin Ladin was the mastermind behind 9/11. Not only were he an Saddam not "best buds", as some neocons would have you think, the two never bothered their mutual hatred of each other.

3-By going into Iraq (a sovereign nation) with knowingly false evidence, Bush, Cheney, Rice, ect.,are basically war criminals.

4-America has gone from the most beloved nation in the world(in the weeks following 9/11) to the most hated(now). And before the neocons(and you know who you are)attack me, need I remind you all that we are a global world, economy, ect. We cannot afford to be isolationists.

Questions for the neocons:

Read my first point here. If Bush was so hell-bent on "getting those responsible" for 9/11, why didn't he go into Saudi Arabia?
Matter of fact, he goes out of his way to remain friendly with them. And why, not long after 9/11, did he suddenly lose intrest in Bin Ladin? "I truly am not concerned about him(Bin Ladin)". And why, after repeating the same ignorant phrase over and over: "BAH GAWD, I'd rather fight them over there than over here", has Al-Qadia managed to get stronger than they've been at any time since before 9/11. Anyone attempting to answer any or all of these questions, please try to WITHOUT once mentioning the words "liberal" and "conspiracy theory".

believe what you want knoxman. Having a very dear friends son serving his 4th tour of duty with the 101'st I can honestly say that INDEED WOMD were found. Now 9/11 i sat in horror watching the wtc get HIT by 2 planes. What about the victims and the PENTAGON? I suppose you believe that is just a small building and not aware its actually a CITY WITHIN A CITY. Then of course the victims in that field that perished on 9/11 in pennsylvania? The war was brought to US. AMERICA.
I stand behind Bush on being there and I AM A DEMOCRAT. I could give a flip because i believe we are there helping the Iraqi people and i AM entitled to MY OPINION AND BELIEF. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR TROOPS.

The point remains:

We went after the wrong people!

Are you saying, Barbie, that because we were attacked, that we should have went after just ANYONE?

Yes, the attacks were tragic. My heart, thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families.

Bush is the one who should be ashamed of himself. He used a tragedy (9/11) as an excuse to carry out a presonal agenda. "He(Saddam) tried to kill my daddy!" Over 3000 U.S. military personnell dead because of THAT? Stand behind Bush if you want. Personally, I think the smell's way too rank.

One more note. Considering your logic, Barbie, if Bush would have been President during the attack on Pearl Harbor, he would have declared war on Canada.

why is it no one sees what i write till someone else writes it