How?

They make us believe we need them. Mainly because they, like parents, can't stand the idea of us all shatting all over ourselves.

In reality?

It takes time, but we learn how to not only survive, but thrive without them. How is it the Land of the Free, when the word 'Free' is so misconstrued?

[Free-d uhm]
- noun

1. Personal liberty; as opposed to imprisonment or slavery
2. Exemption from external control
3. Political or national independence
4. Exemption from the presence of something unpleasant
5. Ease of movement, action, or social interaction
6. Rights and privileges, as of citizenship; civil liberty
7. Right to use something

So, what does freedom mean to you?

Does mean it mean something as minuscule and, rather, insignificant as freedom of speech, and/or freedom of expression? It doesn't matter if the Government listens or reads your complaints, so long as you're allowed to make them? Is that your idea of freedom?

If that's true, that meant that slaves, in the olden days, were already free; well, of course, only in theory. If they were permitted to openly complain about their situation, how did that actually make them free? They were still a slave to a society that, at the time, thought of them as nothing more than property. However, he is allowed his freedom of speech, he can express himself to his 'owner', or his congressman; however, in the end... does that truly make him free?

Presently, isn't that our situation? After all, we don't have any true power over state. Sure, we can elect governors, mayors, and even our president; but in the end, isn't just a facade? After all, I can't vote for anyone I solemnly choose, because they have to accept them as a candidate prior.

Or does it mean the freedom to pray (or the choice not to) and worship whatever God or Gods we so desire without repercussion? Well, if we took that same situation, and gave that slave a church he could attend or choose not to, did that define freedom? Was he free then?

Is that how we define and justify 'freedom'? The right to assemble, the right to speak our minds; but in reality, how often does that ever change anything? Although there is only one Mayor in my city; I need a group of, what shall we say is reasonable, 100 people to make one voice heard? Or, let's say, a petition with 10,000 names; will that get heard?

Where does Freedom begin? Where did it end? Civil liberties you say? So, aside from the fact that, in our day and age, it seems you are always marked guilty until proven innocent; what does it matter if you have civil liberties when you could watch as you, first hand, witnessed someone else kill someone; but because he had money, and a lot of it; how is it civil, moral, or even deemed a liberty that the rich get off, while the weak endure extended sentences?

Economic liberty? Give me a break.. I'm not even bothering heading there; because, in the end, not everyone gives a hoot about accumulating wealth and the minor tedious tasks that fall with it. Don't get me wrong, it is a good one to have; but in my standards, this isn't the direction I'm heading with 'freedom'.

"America's founders believed to the contrary what a lot of people believed when they perceived that the government itself was where their freedom gained its roots; however, the Founders believed it was liberty that precedes government."

So, what is the true purpose of the government?

They would have us believe it is because of the violent, anti-social citizens who bare no interest in engaging in economic enterprise; but believe it steadily easier to steal the fruits of another's labor. However, last I checked, how do they prevent this?

By stealing the fruits of your labor, through taxes, insurance debts, and more bills than a large ranch house basement can hold. So, is that truly the only purpose of the government? To 'protect' me from the enemies they make for us abroad, and aid me for those here at home? Well, I call bull ****.

So, this brings me to my actual question...

What happens when the government, supposedly the entity that protects the law-abiding citizens from the ruthless criminals of both foreign and abroad nature; becomes the main source of torment, pain, agony, and far worse then the criminals they 'protect' us from? What do you say when it is them who cause more destruction and chaos than we would be enduring if it the absence of them? Would the Nazi's have killed as many people as they had in the absence of a Government?

"Oh, that can't happen in a democracy, because the majority rules."

Oh-ho, and what exactly 'is' the majority pulling for?

I can't even recall the last president, aside from those I seen on the awesome TV series 24; like President Palmer; a president, or politician who actually gave a da** about this country. The ones who usually refer to themselves as 'Patriots' are usually the most self-righteous; and would sacrifice anything or anyone to cover their own tracks if this so-called Patriot ran astray from his own principals and ideals. (Cover-up anyone?)

So, in the end.. maybe I have in backwards..

Maybe the people are the diapers; meant to just be shat on and thrown away. After all, we can just run to the store and buy some more, can't we?

I don't know where you grow up, I don't know what 'block' you came from. I don't know what ideas, beliefs, or principles you grew up with; but if you think you are truly free living in America? I'm sorry, but you are far from it.

FYI: I do love America, and yes, I realize other countries have it far worse; via not able to practice religion, or show your face except at home; etc...

However, no other country refers to themselves as 'The Land of the Free'.. but the truth, in my eyes, that there is nothing free about it.

Foreigners are paid to live here.

Women have kids just to get out of working for the rest of their lives.

Mothers and those of not 'white' origins get discounts and benefits just to being different; yet Land of Equality? I'm in no way racist.. but how does a woman, living off welfare and child support, both of which taxpayers have a part in paying, have the ability to go to the same college as me, for the same degree, for well over 10,000 dollars less?

That's freedom? That's equality?

And don't you dare call me racist, I'm nowhere near that..
..but how the h*** is that freedom?

(10,000 may be an exaggeration; but it was at least 4,500 less than I had to pay. I know this, because I was dating her before, during, and after we graduated together.)

So, can someone tell me.. what is the true purpose of politics, elections, and giving a damn about our own government truly is? Because I cannot find it.

(I hope no one takes offense, btw.)

working backwards, the purpose of politics, elections, and giving a damn is the same as the purpose of life,, most believe its better than the other extreme with no politics (ie no policies to govern hundreds of millions of individuals) , no elections (ie, no consideration of the citizens choices) and not giving a damn (ie letting whatever happens happen , kind of like the survival of the fittest)


I doubt things would be 'better' exactly


please tell me where I can go to get my black female discounts, cause I didnt get that memo,,,

welfare has nothing to do with race as there are plenty of WHITE single parents as well receiving that same assistance and getting those same opportunities to go to college

I dont know the circumstances under which welfare provided a college 'discount' to anyone,,,


I doubt many women are taking on the lifetime responsibility of raising children (Which, contrary to popular belief, is a lifetime of work) to avoid being PAID for their effortts and skills away from the home

I think most presidents have cared about this country, they just get accused of otherwise if their direction for the country is different than the observers,,,

I think the government is not flawless, but far from the worst , and I have no personal knowledge of whether they are 'worse' than those they protect us from, mainly because we have been protected from them so well,,,


the government is there not only to protect but to GOVERN (guide) and represent


find me a culture where those with money dont have an advantage over those without, its as rare as one where those with all their limbs dont have any advantage over those who are parapalegic,,,


its not ideal or fair, but its realistic and understandable, although we can do things to monitor HOW much of an advantage is acceptable and understandable,,,



the slave analogies are too far fetched in my opinion for me to address,,
but in a nutshell, the slave had to be 'given' and was not 'free' to create or pursue,, so the 'freedom' that would come from what they might have been 'given' would not be freedom at all because they were not given the EQUAL RIGHT to HAVE the rights of everyone else,, ALL the rights of any other citizen


not having our concerns always addressed or handled how we want is nothing like slavery,,,

Thus, the difference between our states, or, clauses?

See, in Allentown, where I live, I can name over 30 women, who've never worked a day in their life and, literally, got themselves pregnant because they see how much easier is to get the guy; who they leave after or on occasion even prior to birth.

Like my ex, who even confessed that fact to me.

Yes, there are discounts.

Ones for being a woman (deemed a minority)
Ones for being a Hispanic (Also a minority)
Ones for being African-American (Also a minority)

But there's none for being white?

Not to mention, how is it I'm called a Nazi worshiper for believing I should be allowed to have a 'white' parade? Am I not allowed to be proud of my white history? o.o

As for the slavery analogy..
It may be far-stretched, and yeah, the circumstances are, in no way, near the same; however, the context is.

We are slaves to a society where the rich are always those who are on top; but more astutely, we are slaves to a media-run society. We are slaves in the idea that we must work, we must pay the rich, and we must pay the government; simply for our 'right' to live.

I have to pay a 'Privilege' Tax every year when I work. A privilege tax to work in this state? Seriously?

Oh, and welfare itself doesn't provide a discount; however, they will pay for child care so you can attend.

Also, in my state, or more appropriately, my city; I was denied welfare. My friend, his cousin, my cousin, his uncle --all of us white. All of us the same situation; except Davarr. He was in the same situation, but he got welfare.. I'm not supposed to think that's racist, when he was the only of us not white?

Maybe it's my experiences, that have made my judgment clouded, bias, or one-sided. I don't think any deserves welfare or the next; but I don't believe any should be brushed aside because they are indeed different.

Govern.. Guide.. Protect.. and Represent..

So, I'm to believe that cigarettes have the highest taxes, while cigars have far minimal in comparison because one is deadlier than the next? Or is it because most politicians smoke Cubans and despise Marlboro and Newport?

Guide us where? Into war with half the free world? Half the known planet 'hates' America; yet you wish me to believe I had part in that?

I covered protect, cause personally, I just don't see it.

9-11, Columbine..

I'm not sure how much truth was behind this one video I saw, but I believe it was saying that those hi-jackers were issued passports or something by the CIA? They were 'informed' of 9-11 well before it happened.. and I'm supposed to say what? 'Thanks, at least you tried?'

Represent.

How the....

Seriously?

If I voted against Obama, and now hate everything he's done; how is that representing me, or the hundreds, or thousands, he didn't vote for him? That's not representing the country; that's only representing his supporters, yet if Obama declares a draft; I'm obligated to enlist?

I'm still so confused..

*sigh*

Vietnam... was that representing 'us'?
Despite the millions who protested it, and the millions who wanted no part of it, but were forced into it anyway?

What exactly did that even accomplish?

Our government always sticks its nose into everyone else's business.. yet that's what I, somehow, wanted? o.o

Id like to point out that women dont get themself pregnant,, it takes two

so I dont have much empathy there,,,



Im still on the edge of my seat to hear about these discounts you mention,,,


you can have any type of parade you wish, although I dont know why you would want a 'white' parade as the history of 'white ' people is so widespread and diverse,, an irish or scottish or french or german or swedish,,,etc,, parade would make more sense,, but thats just me


Im not sure of your state or what 'situation' grown men found themself in to apply for welfare, as its usually applied for those raising children alone or disabled in someway( I say this because I am an aide in the welfare department)

I also know of no research suggesting the whole world or even half of it 'hates' america


In the strictest comparison of what our government gets right compared to what it gets wrong,, I still think we are ahead

but again, thats just me

yeah, some people are gonna pay higher taxes than others, some products will be taxed more, welfare has fairly strict requirements to be eligible and REMAIN eligible, I dont know if 9/11 was an inside job or not, but I have no reason to believe that real threats are out there just as sure as there are real threats right here at home

I think we are protected much more often than we arent, I think we have many more luxuries than we have restrictions

and so, I feel relatively 'free'

I doubt that it is the Governments business to "Guide"!

it is one definition of the root word 'govern'

to control, direct, or strongly influence the actions and conduct of b : to exert a determining or guiding influence in or over <income must

Firstly on elections, there's not even any consideration on the citizens choices anyway, if you pick the wrong guy, you lose no matter what you think. The whole notion of majority rules is like two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner. It doesn't work. You can try and rail till the cows come home that it does, but it doesn't, because someone ends up with less rights to do what they want than another in the end.

Secondly, anything the government touches tends to turn to crap to start with, the more they meddle in our lives the worse our lives get. You've closed your eyes to this, but it is true nevertheless.

Maybe we would be better off if we were allowed to live our lives, and actually be RESPONSIBLE for ourselves. I know, it's a foreign concept, actually taking complete responsibility for yourself and your actions, owning them instead of relying on others to fix your mistakes isn't it?

Maybe survival of the fittest isn't all that far fetched, because if we HAD to be responsible for ourselves and our lives instead of relying on government to take care of our problems for us, maybe we'd have a different world, a world where we took better care of ourselves, because we simply would have to.

But then what do I know, I'm just a young kid who has no idea what I'm talking about right?

5 stars for this thread Sin.

we would be better off if we understood that we arent just responsible for 'ourself', and all those luxuries and privileges we are taking for granted have to be maintained and ACQUIRED somehow,,,as opposed to appearing because we will it to be so,,,

I dont want to live in a household with no rules or guidelines, and I certainly dont want to live in such a society

everyone for themself will mostly end in greed and violence that dwarfs what we like to complain about within our 'governed' culture

Ill pass on that, but Im sure there are some societies that still live off the land and take what they want and where the fittest run over the weakest ,,,,,you probably just have to research it and they probably dont even care about things like 'borders' or who comes in,, so long as you are 'fit' enough to fight your way in,,,,


you are young, you have some good ideas and some illogical ideals,, we all did when we were younger,,,,


even my toddler wonders why she cant just get what she wants when she wants it and not have to do anything she doesnt wish to do,,,,

its a novel ideal, but it doesnt work once more than ONE person has to share the same environment,,,

We CAN'T be responsible for everyone else just ourselves. If someone wants to find offense with something, they're gonna find one, doesn't make us wrong for doing whatever it is we're doing, just means they're so busy worrying about what everyone else does to live their own life. People are so quick to meddle like that anymore, instead of minding their own business and worrying about their own lives.

Oh and those luxuries and privileges you speak of being maintained? The government sure does a hell of a job of doing that right? Give me a break, half the crap they are supposed to take care of they let rot. Roads in bad shape, schools a mess, I could go on. They don't care. Give the power back to the people, and I guarantee you you'd see positive changes. But that's not good for the agenda of the elite, so it stays the same.

I may be young, but just because you're older than me, doesn't mean you don't have things to learn yourself either. Older and wiser don't always go together.

who says we have to be responsible for 'everyone' else

but because we dont live on the planet alone , we do have responsibility TOWARDS those other than ourself

we all have things to learn, Id never suggest otherwise

but on this topic, experience does have its perks,,,,

just the statement 'give the power back to the people' signifies a lack of experience, in my opinion

Id like to know just what period of time in american history 'the people' held the power,,,,

Ugh..

You're so close-minded.

Discounts I mentioned, both times, not sure what you're looking for there? Precise names? Got me there. I'll see what I can dig up.

Seriously, you didn't notice that more than half the world hated us?

China, Japan, 90% of the Middle East, the other 10% I swear only pretend. Germany, Russia, Poland, and England were pretty damn bitter when we told the UN "we don't need your permission". As to further point this out, I'd like to denote that I speak of the people, not the existing 'government' cause who truly cares what they 'like'.

If it takes two, as you say; then why is everything put on the dad? Hmm? 65-35 is really down the middle ain't it? And if you still want to be dense in believing women, out here in America, don't get pregnant just 'because', you're blind.

So, you believe you're free...

..then you as well, have no idea what free truly is.

You, like others, are just too 'programmed' to think for yourself. A tool, a slave to a society of robots. So, live in your world of 'freedom' and lay witness as history repeats itself; all the while, strengthening those who suppress hope and give you your false blanket of security.

..I mean in the end, you criticize that it'd be a dog eat dog world without the government; but realistically, that's what it already is. Only difference is, I know who has their hand in my cookie jar.

Thank you, exactly the jist idea of my point.

:]

hmmm, asking for examples makes me closed minded?,,,,mm kay,,,

of course women can get pregnant, just because, but so what

men dont have to make babies they dont want, so like I said, Im not empathetic

as to who gets everything put on them, I have no idea what that even means,,,seems now most women working outside the home STILL take care of inside the home while the men are validated by merely maintaining the work they get 'paid' for

and women working at home taking care of and raising children are usually putting in most of the physical WORK of maintaining that family and that home

I still am not aware of americans being 'hated' on such a large scale, however often you post it here and I have traveled to mexico and the uk and spain,,,

I think just fine for myself, I can even understand that differing opinions are equally personal and equally likely to be 'right'

because they are not 'facts' just opinions that stem from perception and experience and the multitude of information available to reinforce those opinions that came from perception and experience,,,

So, you're telling me man was created with a king already elected? That's sad to think that you believe we, as humans, have always had one person be our superior voice.

Indians has a council of Elders, but ultimately, each did as they wanted; but ultimately, they all co-existed, and survived TOGETHER. There was no rich, there was no poor. ONE FAMILY.

The Amish. How about them? More current for you? They have a speaker, they have a council, but again ONE FAMILY.

So, are they savages ripping each others hearts out? Sure, Indians had squabbles with other nations, but again, what country was it that deemed their removal a 'necessity'?

So, American History, maybe not; however, LIFE itself DID NOT begin in America. I think you've forgotten that..

All we want is 'equality'. All we want is 'freedom'. And not your media produced concept of what freedom should be, according to this section of some paper some guys wrote; and apparently only the 'people' didn't get to read the small, fine print..

"What the big print giveth, the small print taketh away."

At some point you must realize, we didn't always have a government..
We didn't rely on rich douche bags to 'dictate' our way of life..

It's just that simple, or well, so we thought....

'we' werent native americans or amish,, at least I wasnt

Im quite happy with the american way of life, even if its not perfect

I dont want the amish life or the native american one,,,and they are but two of probably thousands of different cultures around the world


but even they arent 'free', they have rules and guidelines they must follow as well, traditions that are fairly rigidly exercised and mandated


so the idea of a 'freedom' where people have a perfect existence of doing what they want and having what they need, with no interference or rules or expectations or governance,, is idealistic dishonesty,,,

if we could go 'back' to where there were less than a million people with an abundance of food to hunt and prepare for themself and an abundance of resources to grow and plant food for themself,,,sure

but Im not trying to go backward, Im not all that upset that we are no longer in that time,, and I would rather move FORWARD to make what we have better instead of trying to move backward to some time that cant be duplicated,,,,

Firstly, a lot of our legislation and laws go toward being responsible for everyone else moreso than being responsible towards others apart from us. There is a difference.

Being responsible towards others means generally, respecting their rights as people to do as they wish within reason, respecting their rights to privacy, and generally respecting their right to do as they see fit to do, so long as they aren't infringing on your own rights to do the same. IE: If you're trying to sleep, and they are making a lot of noise, they are overstepping your right to rest, and vice versa. That's what that means, what we have now is anything but.

What we have now, is a society where our tax money pays to take care of other people, a society where if someone does something illegal, everyone else has to have their rights restricted on because of it, you've seen this time and again with this war on terror. What we have is a society where everyone indeed becomes responsible for everyone else in one way or another.

These are two entirely different ideas, one promotes our rights and being responsible, the other takes away from those things. I'll leave you to guess which is which.

Second as far as far as when we held the power, we certainly used to hold a hell of a lot more than we do now. The more you let government dictate what you do or do not do, the less power the people collectively have, and it's been dwindling to where we hardly have any in the context of the current system.

so should we all make up our own laws based upon who personally disrupts us,,,? im confused,,,

I dont know which 'we' you refer to , because many groups only began to hold 'power' within the past fifty or so years



but we naturally want to hold on to our fantasy of some 'ideal' past when life was wonderful for everyone ,,,,sigh

I hate to break this to you, but the bottom WILL eventually fall out, and those that have been used to having the government taking care of them, suddenly won't have them anymore. They won't know what to do, cause they have never been taught how to care for themselves without the government helping them along. And you know what you'll get? Mass chaos, people will panic cause suddenly they'll have to fend for themselves again and they won't know how.

Then you'll see the government step in and control them again, except on an even bigger scale. That's the genius of it all, give you everything you need for a while, take it away, and then step in again to "fix" the wrongs in ways that fit with their agenda.

Consider yourself warned. If we don't learn to take care of ourselves, they sure as hell aren't gonna be the ones to tell us how. They need us, we just think we need them. Reality is, we can get along fine without them but we haven't been taught that.

anyway, I have to get some sleep to prepare for another day of slavery tomorrow

hopefully I will be permitted to speak my mind without being whipped and noone will be legally permitted to rape me,,,,,and I will be allowed to read and continue my educational classes,,,,and hang out with whomever I please, regardless of their skin tone,,,

lolol

who doesnt know how to take care of themself? seriously? do you realize americans work longer hours, more days, and more years than most industrialized nations?

that small piece of the pie set aside for when there are hard times, hardly constitutes an inability for people to know how to take care of themself

problem is, opportunities dont grow on trees, and it takes someone interested in offering an opportunity for most people to 'take care of themself'

and we have a system where those opportunities are reserved mostly for those already in a 'network' of some sort