Hey, I was just saying I thought that was of what he spoke...

I'm not as big into politics.

Politicians are paid to lie and sugar coat.

They make far too much to make the world worse; while only caring about themselves, and theirs.

So, yeah, I'm outti of this convo, before ya'll make me feel dumb.

lol

:O

or BUSH who actually signed into law the AUMF

but Im done arguing unsubstantiated opinion,, I will review the thread later to see if anyone has actually found the CLAUSE in the bill that originates such authority and WASNT included in the AUMF...

my apology, I doubt you or anyone here is what is stupid

but people repeat too much misinformation without checking for themself


I just suggest finding the text of both bills and comparing for your self

most computers have a find feature where you can type in EXACTLY what you are looking for and if its there the computer will show you where it is,

..hey, don't look at me..
I'll go cross-eyed. D:

lol, its all good,,,,

By Naomi Wolf

January 02, 2012 - "Naomi Wolf" --- December 12th, 2011 -- I never thought I would have to write this: but—incredibly—Congress has now passed the National Defense Appropriations Act, with Amendment 1031, which allows for the military detention of American citizens. The amendment is so loosely worded that any American citizen could be held without due process. The language of this bill can be read to assure Americans that they can challenge their detention — but most people do not realize what this means: at Guantanamo and in other military prisons, one’s lawyer’s calls are monitored, witnesses for one’s defense are not allowed to testify, and one can be forced into nudity and isolation. Incredibly, ninety-three Senators voted to support this bill and now most of Congress: a roster of names that will live in infamy in the history of our nation, and never be expunged from the dark column of the history books.

They may have supported this bill because—although it’s hard to believe—they think the military will only arrest active members of Al Qaida; or maybe, less naively, they believe that ‘at most’, low-level dissenting figures, activists, or troublesome protesters might be subjected to military arrest. But they are forgetting something critical: history shows that those who signed this bill will soon be subject to arrest themselves.

Our leaders appear to be supporting this bill thinking that they will always be what they are now, in the fading light of a once-great democracy — those civilian leaders who safely and securely sit in freedom and DIRECT the military. In inhabiting this bubble, which their own actions are about to destroy, they are cocooned by an arrogance of power, placing their own security in jeopardy by their own hands, and ignoring history and its inevitable laws. The moment this bill becomes law, though Congress is accustomed, in a weak democracy, to being the ones who direct and control the military, the power roles will reverse: Congress will no longer be directing and in charge of the military: rather, the military will be directing and in charge of individual Congressional leaders, as well as in charge of everyone else — as any Parliamentarian in any society who handed this power over to the military can attest.

Perhaps Congress assumes that it will always only be ‘they’ who are targeted for arrest and military detention: but sadly, Parliamentary leaders are the first to face pressure, threats, arrest and even violence when the military obtains to power to make civilian arrests and hold civilians in military facilities without due process. There is no exception to this rule. Just as I traveled the country four years ago warning against the introduction of torture and secret prisons – and confidently offering a hundred thousand dollar reward to anyone who could name a nation that allowed torture of the ‘other’ that did not eventually turn this abuse on its own citizens — (confident because I knew there was no such place) — so today I warn that one cannot name a nation that gave the military the power to make civilian arrests and hold citizens in military detention, that did not almost at once turn that power almost against members of that nation’s own political ruling class. This makes sense — the obverse sense of a democracy, in which power protects you; political power endangers you in a militarized police state: the more powerful a political leader is, the more can be gained in a militarized police state by pressuring, threatening or even arresting him or her.

Mussolini, who created the modern template for fascism, was a duly elected official when he started to direct paramilitary forces against Italian citizens: yes, he sent the Blackshirts to beat up journalists, editors, and union leaders; but where did these militarized groups appear most dramatically and terrifyingly, snapping at last the fragile hold of Italian democracy? In the halls of the Italian Parliament. Whom did they physically attack and intimidate? Mussolini’s former colleagues in Parliament — as they sat, just as our Congress is doing, peacefully deliberating and debating the laws. Whom did Hitler’s Brownshirts arrest in the first wave of mass arrests in 1933? Yes, journalists, union leaders and editors; but they also targeted local and regional political leaders and dragged them off to secret prisons and to torture that the rest of society had turned a blind eye to when it had been directed at the ‘other.’ Who was most at risk from assassination or arrest and torture, after show trials, in Stalin’s Russia? Yes, journalists, editors and dissidents: but also physically endangered, and often arrested by militarized police and tortured or worse, were senior members of the Politburo who had fallen out of favor.

Is this intimidation and arrest by the military a vestige of the past? Hardly. We forget in America that all over the world there are militarized societies in which shells of democracy are propped up — in which Parliament meets regularly and elections are held, but the generals are really in charge, just as the Egyptian military is proposing with upcoming elections and the Constitution itself. That is exactly what will take place if Congress gives the power of arrest and detention to the military: and in those societies if a given political leader does not please the generals, he or she is in physical danger or subjected to military arrest. Whom did John Perkins, author of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, say he was directed to intimidate and threaten when he worked as a ‘jackal’, putting pressure on the leadership in authoritarian countries? Latin American parliamentarians who were in the position to decide the laws that affected the well-being of his corporate clients. Who is under house arrest by the military in Myanmar? The political leader of the opposition to the military junta. Malalai Joya is an Afghani parliamentarian who has run afoul of the military and has to sleep in a different venue every night — for her own safety. An on, and on, in police states — that is, countries with military detention of civilians — that America is about to join.

US Congresspeople and Senators may think that their power protects them from the treacherous wording of Amendments 1031 and 1032: but their arrogance is leading them to a blindness that is suicidal. The moment they sign this NDAA into law, history shows that they themselves and their staff are the most physically endangered by it. They will immediately become, not the masters of the great might of the United States military, but its subjects and even, if history is any guide — and every single outcome of ramping up police state powers, unfortunately, that I have warned for years that history points to, has come to pass — sadly but inevitably, its very first targets.

Author, social critic, and political activist Naomi Wolf raises awareness of the pervasive inequities that exist in society and politics. Wolf’s New York Times bestseller, The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot, is an impassioned call to return to the aspirations and beliefs of the Founders’ ideals of liberty. The New York Times called the documentary version “pointedly inflammatory.” Her latest book, Give Me Liberty: A Handbook For American Revolutionaries, includes effective tools for citizens to promote civic engagement and create sustainable democracy.

·

DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS,, actually allows for a multitude of things pertaining to running our military and protecting our citizens

but people probably havent bothered to read all of those things since the media is stuck on sensationalism and out of context conslusions and 'could be''s

The misinformation, is attempting to downplay what Hussein signed while playing golf.

Then his pitbull celebrated with a $4,000.00 dress.

There are shills who get paid to come onto forums to do the downplaying and are given scripts to post from.

One way Hussein creates jobs for HIS people.

I could see the Muslim world can benefit from the detention law.

They cry that mohamed is being disrespected and Hussein will show the infidel his pitchfork.

Who was the group he once threatened to show the pitchfork???

Scripted.

I rest my case!!!

Google;
Get paid to post on forums.

any information that actually comes from the text of the discussed bills is usually scarce from the forum,,,,


most of the other information is opinion posing as fact, and repetitive factoids that seem to become publicly accepted the more they are posted to some blog or youtube video,,,,


Its like someone posts all over the internet that pg13 movies allow nudity and thats possibly gonna cause all the 13 and unders to start running around nude

and because more than one 'source' posts it,, people start to truly panic,, with no real EVIDENCE or indication that such a thing is ever going to happen

but if it COULD happen, by all means, we should stop any ACTIONS that may enable its 'possibility'


.,..ludacrous, to me anyhow


but, I digress, Ill gladly accept information that is based upon references to the TEXT of the bills

as opposed to some politicians or pundits interpretation of what it means or what it COULD mean,,,

Hey I seen pg-13 movies with nudity in them; albeit, very brief..
..but how would that cause teenagers (and under) to run around in the nude?

Sorry, that part confused me. :X

..and in case you're wondering, the movie I refer to, was a long time ago when they weren't as strict; seeing as how nudity wasn't as openly used in movies as it is nowadays..

Like, say, your American Pies..

Crap, I'm rambling. =X

I thought it was bad enough that Obama revised our Miranda rights. You have to wonder why we have so many FEMA CAMPS and why the budget is so large going towards them.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576218970652119898.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

The following taken from the link provided above.
Before becoming president, Mr. Obama had criticized the Bush administration for going outside traditional criminal procedures to deal with terror suspects, and for bypassing Congress in making rules to handle detainees after 9/11. He has since embraced many of the same policies while devising additional ones—to the disappointment of civil-liberties groups that championed his election. In recent weeks, the administration formalized procedures for indefinitely detaining some suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, allowing for periodic reviews of those deemed too dangerous to set
free.

Watch Obama talk about "prolonged detention", his words.

http://youtu.be/8mPZlysCAm0

WOW!!
When Rachel Madcow goes and slams Hussein, that's some serious sheite.

Those camps kinda' make sense.

Put you in prison before you can commit a crime. Now, I'd call that profiling!

What with all the extended, long-term unemployed who will eventually be cut off.

The troops coming out of the military, who just might be a little disgruntled, finding the job that was supposed to be there for them no longer exist.

The homeless crowd is also growing. They will need to be contained.

And all those people may need a tattooed number on their bodies to keep it straight who they are.

Small, electronically readable bar code. They can be read from a distance of 10 feet.
You are already being tracked unless you take the smart chip out of your phone.

For some reason I did not see part of your original post. I picked Rachel Maddow for a reason! If Obama's own words are enough for the naysayers I don't know what is.

You know when I said a tattooed number, maybe it will be some mark instead, maybe an RFID chip in their right hand, it could be next. Obama isn't finished yet!!

When a amnesty bill comes, a biometric ID could be implemented. It was stated that every U.S. employer will have to pay for a scanning device for their employees.

Woe to you, oh earth and sea
For the Devil sends the beast with wrath
Because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding
Reckon the number of the beast
For it is a human number
Its number is six hundred and sixty six

I left alone, my mind was blank, I needed time to think
To get the memories from my mind
What did I see? Can I believe that what I saw
That night was real and not just fantasy?

Just what I saw in my old dreams
Were they reflections of my warped mind staring back at me
'Cause in my dreams, it's always there
The evil face that twists my mind and brings me to despair

Night was black, was no use holding back
'Cause I just had to see, was someone watching me?
In the mist, dark figures move and twist
Was all this for real or just some kind of Hell?
From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/i/iron-maiden-lyrics/the-number-of-the-beast-lyrics.html

6 6 6, the number of the beast
Hell and fire was spawned to be released

Torches blazed and sacred chants were praised
As they start to cry, hands held to the sky
In the night, the fires are burning bright
The ritual has begun, Satan's work is done

6 6 6, the number of the beast
Sacrifice is going on tonight

This can't go on, I must inform the law
Can this still be real, or just some crazy dream?
But I feel drawn towards the chanting hordes
Seem to mesmerize, can't avoid their eyes

6 6 6, the number of the beast
6 6 6, the one for you and me

I'm coming back, I will return
And I'll possess your body, and I'll make you burn
I have the fire, I have the force
I have the power to make my evil take its course

We are being tracked in many different ways. There are cases you can buy for your phone, passport,etc. that do not allow any signal to get through. Of course it only works if you keep it in the case!

I do not want a tracking device anywhere, my vehicle , my person, nor do I want cookies in my laptop! Normally I like cookies but not those kind :)

I pray I'll recognize it when it comes and then I pray I don't take it and I'm able to sustain myself somehow!

the AUMF

[edit] Section 2 - Authorization For Use of United States Armed Forces(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.



which RON PAUL voted in favor of,,,,,but perhaps that doesnt open the doors for abuse that everyone is screaming mr Paul would never support,,,,

Golly gee MsHarmony , you failed to show proof, let me see it.