I have never expected any man to be anything more that who he is. Fact is, women expect communication with a man. If you don't know what a woman wants; ask her. I am direct with a man as this was what I was taught in the military. I have not problem telling him I want equality. I have no problem telling him my priorities are my family and my job as I would put his job and his family above my needs. I have no problem telling him I need my space and he needs his. I have no wish to own or control a man; I wanted him as my friend first and friends respect each other. Men are anything but simple. He tells me he likes a totally independent woman then whines and says he doesn't feel needed because I am too independent. He says he wants a relationship and then pulls away when he is in one. He says he wants time with his friends and when you encourage it; he says you don't care about him. How the heck is that being simple?

Meh... I learned men are simple.

Ah, I get what you are saying and I totally agree with you about the boundaries. Very well said.

Really, they confuse the heck out of me. I can't figure what they want and I have to tip toe around their egos. They get real upset when they see my doing what is considered a "man's job" or lifting something they couldn't. My military male friends find this quite amusing actually.

Let me ask you a question, which you don't have to answer here. Do you make "covert contracts"? In other words, do you do nice things for a woman and expect something in return? For instance: You rub her back when you want your back rubbed (thinking she'll rub your back in return)? That's a classic "nice guy" behavior and leads to anger and frustration. If you directly ask for a back rub or make a "verbal contact" (I'll sub your back if you'll rub mine) and she doesn't carry through, then you have reason to be angry.

Navygirl, I love when I read your posts like this. I, as anyone who reads my stuff knows, have a lot of male friend friends and am also very independent. I find so many guys are threatened by that. They really do not get that it is the HIGHEST and ULTIMATE in compliments when someone likes us WANTS them in our lives and does not NEED them. With no lack of testosterone around us, we chose them as SPECIAL and DIFFERENT from the rest. That when we say, "This is a man I admire enough to call my boyfriend" that it means something amazing.

Yeah us ladies have a book out called "Why men love b*tches. It was a good read, very informative and the interesting thing is the book is based on interviews with men on why they admire these kind of women. Just goes to show men don't like nice women either.

I think i have done both in the past

"No More Mr Nice Guy" isn't about truly nice guys. It's about men who label themselves "nice guys", but they are really needy, manipulative and deceitful.

Haven't we all? But I think any observer would agree that you can only be unhappy with someone who doesn't address your verbalized needs. Unverbalized needs aren't known and are therefore unaddressable. Once you fully realize and accept that you can't hold a woman accountable for not doing something you never asked her to do, you can let go of that anger. It's okay to be angry, but you should be angry about events where your wants and needs were knowingly neglected.

Yeah; my male friends are always saying they wish the women they met were more independent. Fact is when I am with a man; I am not there to use him as a handyman or for his money; I simply enjoy his company. I remember being with my ex-boyfriend and we were out putting a deck together when he said it was nice not meeting a woman that wasn't useless when it came to getting her hands dirty/or doing renos. Don't get me wrong; I don't mind a guy helping me out but I also want to work with him. I know too many women that can't do something simple as changing a fuse on a car, fixing a drain, or putting up a shelf. I often wonder what happens to these women if the guys leave them or worse yet die? They would be helpless as children. Fact is I admire women like yourself and sing that aren't afraid to go out and do something for yourself.

ah, I got you. The book I mentioned was really about telling women that men don't want women that are doormats. I just thought the "No more Mr Nice Guy" was along the same line. Sorry for the confusion.

The two books sound very similar. As I mentioned above, in a healthy relationship, both people will establish and enforce boundaries. A woman who lets her boyfriend walk all over her obviously doesn't respect herself, so she can't expect him to respect her...and vise versa.

I couldn't of said it better. All I want is someone to hold me at night and tell me everything is ok even when its not, even when I'm at falt.

I wish that was all the women I've met wanted, I have that covered 200%.

It's usually a guessing game though. It's rough, not being told but being expected to know.....

what we want is respect,loyalty,and good sex.Dont beat around the bush out with it....

Yep, thats my dream man... Oh but i have found him and he puts up with all my annoying craziness,

But I think that what we really want is someone who can just love us.. For whoever we are and accept the wierd things we want to do..

His address and phone number. Oh and you forgot RESPECT.

Serisouly, I had just this guy, well he could not fix anything and did not pay my bills, but that is ok I could. Sad to say that he died suddenly and I fear that when I am ready again there will never be another one for me.

Why bother...what we want does not matter.

You know, as I sit here thinking about this topic, I must be really, really stupid. Yes, I know how hard it is to date and find the someone that meshes with your life, goals and desires. I spent 5 years looking, waiting and slogging through crap to be with the best person for me. Most know my story, so I will not repete it here. Yet, it really should not be this hard. But it is. Why, men and women both have these set ideas and beliefs on how the other sex is "supposed" to behave. Guess what? Sure some fit that neat peg hole, but most do not. Why in the heck cant both sexes just ACCEPT each others differences, not put them down for being male/female and be happy that we have these differences.

I believe in my heart that this is possible. I am living proof. Now I know that there will be some folks that think that I have this post-death idealization of my guy, but if you knew me you would know different. I am very realistic. Now, Rick had his flaws, poor sweet thing thought he was an alpha male, agressive in work, ect. Well the thing is that he was not. He was kind, he was patient, he was respectfull, he loved my sudden frustrations of stupid drivers on the road, and he giggled, ( yes he giggled ) when I went on a rant about stupid things. I am a woman, yes my mood follows my heart. But Rick was all man and even though he had emotions he was taught at a young age to hide most of those emotions. Hunger was an accepted emotion that was encouraged. Hunger for status, hunger for good food, and a hunger for sex. All other emotions were to be hidden from the world. But since we loved each other I soon learned to know what those hidden emotions were. How, I just thought, what would I FEEL under those same circumstances? And guess what? The empathy I have for other fellow human beings allowed me to walk in their shoes and understand what any human would feel. So I would say," I know you are bothered by such and such and are feeling like...." He would be amazed. No one in his life ever showed him that people could be like this.

I am going to end with this, YOU are allowed to feel the way you feel, YOU deserve to be respected for who you are, and you should wait for what you want and deserve. On the other hand to get this you should allow others to feel what they feel, respect others their for who they are, flaws and all, and walk a day in someone's shoes and let them reach their goals and dreams. And if this does not fit with your dreams and goals, Walk on past. Stop disparaging the other sex for their differences. Embrace them.

You know if this could happen to more folks, maybe there would be less women in this world that would quit trying to change LEX in to a domisticated ani-MALE. Sorry Lex, I just had to help ya. And there would be less men putting women down for being themselves-quirky, crying, silly, loving women.

Thanks for letting me get this off my brain.