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| Topic: Christ without Christianity | |
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You are misunderstanding this scripture ,Abra....
"John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Abra.... when God says they are condemned already, it means they have condemned THEMSELVES by not believing.... it NEVER said that GOD condemns them....noooo......again, it means that they THEMSELVES have already CONDEMNED THEMSELVES!!! BY REJECTING GOD!!! The same goes with God NEVER sending anyone away , Who calls upon His Name...they just send themelves away by REJECTING Him !!! Praying this scripture is finally made clear.  
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Cowboy wrote: Sure you do, or you wouldn't be here. Or are you just here to spread your hatred towards other religions? Especially the Christian faith? I'm sorry that you have chosen to take such a negative view Cowboy. There is no "hatred" being spread by me. I'm addressing serious issues concerning the writings of an ancient culture that accuses all of humanity of having "Turned from God" and in dire need of being "saved" by a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices. Why should you view that as being 'hateful'? If you feel negative emotions associated with my views, I would ask that you quit reading them. Why read the views of others if they upset you? Just ignore them. According to Matthew Jesus said that they will be case into a furnace of fire and there will be wailing and the gnashing of teeth. So the Bible is threatening severe discomfort and torment. Will it last for all of eternity? Well, the Gospels also have Jesus stating that this will be 'everlasting punishment'. He also said that the fire will be unquenchable. No threats, merely informing us of such knowledge. If God would have told us not to play with fire, or you might get burned... Would it be a threat? By your logic, it would be. Your analogy here doesn't fit. Telling someone not to play with fire because they might get burned in no way compares with a God who would actually CAST people into a fiery furnace and gnash their teeth. You're analogy doesn't even come close to acknowledging the issue. Personally I'm not impressed by a God who would even stoop so low as to be so cruel to people even for a brief period of time. And for what? For merely not believing that Jesus was the son of God? No one will be punished for merely not believing in Jesus. The only reward for sin is death. Jesus is the only way to receive forgiveness of the sins. So it would be the sins you would be punished for, not specifically the disbelief in Jesus. I was addressing what the Bible actually says Cowboy. Not your make-believe version of the religion. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. It clearly states that he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God. This is written in the Bible, therefore it must be "God's Word" right? So why should I take YOUR word for why this God will condemn someone when the actual Bible tells me that God will condemn those who merely do not believe in the name of the only begotten son of God. You're trying to re-write the religion to suit your own agenda. I speak to the issues of the actual doctrine. I'm not interested in your hypothetical Cowboyainity. |
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You are misunderstanding this scripture ,Abra.... "John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Abra.... when God says they are condemned already, it means they have condemned THEMSELVES by not believing.... it NEVER said that GOD condemns them....noooo......again, it means that they THEMSELVES have already CONDEMNED THEMSELVES!!! BY REJECTING GOD!!! The same goes with God NEVER sending anyone away , Who calls upon His Name...they just send themelves away by REJECTING Him !!! Praying this scripture is finally made clear. That is the same as condemning yourself for making a very bad choice in life, like doing drugs and getting addicted. In non-Christian terms it means (to me) that if I chose a life of hatred and negative thinking, and crime and drugs... by my choices I have condemned myself. To "reject God" in non-Christian terms means to reject love and joy and compassion. |
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You are misunderstanding this scripture ,Abra.... "John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Abra.... when God says they are condemned already, it means they have condemned THEMSELVES by not believing.... it NEVER said that GOD condemns them....noooo......again, it means that they THEMSELVES have already CONDEMNED THEMSELVES!!! BY REJECTING GOD!!! The same goes with God NEVER sending anyone away , Who calls upon His Name...they just send themelves away by REJECTING Him !!! Praying this scripture is finally made clear. Hi MorningSong. I've heard this excuse more times than I can possible remember. I don't buy it. To not believe in a God is not the same as "rejecting a God". On the contrary it would be impossible to reject a God that you don't even believe in. You'd first need to believe in a God before you could even reject that God. So not believing does not equate to 'rejecting God'. That very propaganda right there is false propaganda that was created by the church itself. If you refuse to believe in our religion God will hate you!  That's a psychological brainwashing tactic to get people to fear that if they fail to believe in the religion they will be condemned by some horrible God. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 11/07/11 02:45 PM
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And one more thing Abra...
there are Prophesies of events STILL YET TO COME.... Not everything Prophesied in the Bible has COME TO PASS YET.... that is another reason you are MISunDerStanding the Bible.... |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 11/07/11 02:53 PM
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You are misunderstanding this scripture ,Abra.... "John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Abra.... when God says they are condemned already, it means they have condemned THEMSELVES by not believing.... it NEVER said that GOD condemns them....noooo......again, it means that they THEMSELVES have already CONDEMNED THEMSELVES!!! BY REJECTING GOD!!! The same goes with God NEVER sending anyone away , Who calls upon His Name...they just send themelves away by REJECTING Him !!! Praying this scripture is finally made clear. Hi MorningSong. I've heard this excuse more times than I can possible remember. I don't buy it. To not believe in a God is not the same as "rejecting a God". On the contrary it would be impossible to reject a God that you don't even believe in. You'd first need to believe in a God before you could even reject that God. So not believing does not equate to 'rejecting God'. That very propaganda right there is false propaganda that was created by the church itself. If you refuse to believe in our religion God will hate you! That's a psychological brainwashing tactic to get people to fear that if they fail to believe in the religion they will be condemned by some horrible God. I AM TALKING ABOUT REJECTING GOD WHEN HE COMES KNOCKING ON YOUR HEARTS DOOR...NOT BECAUSE YOU DON'T YET UNDERSTAND HIM!!!! GOD ONLY COMES WHEN THE HEART IS READY TO RECEIVE...AND HE FIRST PREPARES THE HEART TO RECEIVE HIM.
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That is the same as condemning yourself for making a very bad choice in life, like doing drugs and getting addicted. In non-Christian terms it means (to me) that if I chose a life of hatred and negative thinking, and crime and drugs... by my choices I have condemned myself. To "reject God" in non-Christian terms means to reject love and joy and compassion. Exactly. As that kind of abstract metaphor the overall ideal can work. But let's face it, in the Christian doctrine there is a clear and blatant attempt to associate this directly with a belief and acknowledgment that "Jesus" was the only begotten son of God. The Christian doctrine is designed specifically to gain a "copyright" on God through Jesus as "The Christ". This is why, IMHO, this religion was clearly the work of mortal men who were out to create a religion that has absolute authority. And I have to hand it to them, they certainly succeeded in their goal. |
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NO MAN WILL EVER RECEIVE GOD ON HIS OWN STRENGTH
OR WITH HIS OWN MIND.......OR OUT OF FEAR OF FELLING HE HAS TO....OR ELSE.......NOOOOOOO....NOOOOOO.....NOOOOOOOOO ONE RECEIVES GOD INTO HIS HEART WHEN THE LORD FIRST DRAWS HIM AND PREPARES HIS HEART , AND THEN CONVICTS HIM OF HIS SIN AND HIS NEED FOR A SAVIOUR..... GOD DOES IT ALLLLL...NOT MAN!!!!! WE THEN.... HAVE THE CHOICE OF ACCEPTING HIM OR REJECTING HIM , AFTER HE DOES THE DRAWING AND CONVICTING..... BUT GOD IS VERY PATIENT WITH US.....AND HE KNOWS WHEN WE ARE TRULY READY TO EVEN HEAR, MUCH LESS RECEIVE.....THAT'S BECAUSE HE LOVES US AND WOULD HAVE IT THAT NO MAN PERISH!!!
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Mon 11/07/11 03:09 PM
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Cowboy wrote: Sure you do, or you wouldn't be here. Or are you just here to spread your hatred towards other religions? Especially the Christian faith? I'm sorry that you have chosen to take such a negative view Cowboy. There is no "hatred" being spread by me. I'm addressing serious issues concerning the writings of an ancient culture that accuses all of humanity of having "Turned from God" and in dire need of being "saved" by a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices. Why should you view that as being 'hateful'? If you feel negative emotions associated with my views, I would ask that you quit reading them. Why read the views of others if they upset you? Just ignore them. According to Matthew Jesus said that they will be case into a furnace of fire and there will be wailing and the gnashing of teeth. So the Bible is threatening severe discomfort and torment. Will it last for all of eternity? Well, the Gospels also have Jesus stating that this will be 'everlasting punishment'. He also said that the fire will be unquenchable. No threats, merely informing us of such knowledge. If God would have told us not to play with fire, or you might get burned... Would it be a threat? By your logic, it would be. Your analogy here doesn't fit. Telling someone not to play with fire because they might get burned in no way compares with a God who would actually CAST people into a fiery furnace and gnash their teeth. You're analogy doesn't even come close to acknowledging the issue. Personally I'm not impressed by a God who would even stoop so low as to be so cruel to people even for a brief period of time. And for what? For merely not believing that Jesus was the son of God? No one will be punished for merely not believing in Jesus. The only reward for sin is death. Jesus is the only way to receive forgiveness of the sins. So it would be the sins you would be punished for, not specifically the disbelief in Jesus. I was addressing what the Bible actually says Cowboy. Not your make-believe version of the religion. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. It clearly states that he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God. This is written in the Bible, therefore it must be "God's Word" right? So why should I take YOUR word for why this God will condemn someone when the actual Bible tells me that God will condemn those who merely do not believe in the name of the only begotten son of God. You're trying to re-write the religion to suit your own agenda. I speak to the issues of the actual doctrine. I'm not interested in your hypothetical Cowboyainity. Telling someone not to play with fire because they might get burned in no way compares with a God who would actually CAST people into a fiery furnace and gnash their teeth. So the Bible is threatening severe discomfort and torment. Will it last for all of eternity? Well, the Gospels also have Jesus stating that this will be 'everlasting punishment'. He also said that the fire will be unquenchable. Sure it does. You tell someone play with fire you'll wind up burned and God is saying obey me or you will get burned. Disobeying God is playing with fire. The only everlasting punishment there is, is death. People are born on Earth, the live, then they die. If they did not receive the grace of everlasting life, They will remain dead eg., everlasting death or everlasting punishment if they did not seek forgiveness of their sins and trespasses. I was addressing what the Bible actually says Cowboy. Not your make-believe version of the religion. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. That is because with accepting Jesus, we are washed clean. If one doesn't accept Jesus, how do they expect to receive forgiveness of their sins and trespasses? So why should I take YOUR word for why this God will condemn someone when the actual Bible tells me that God will condemn those who merely do not believe in the name of the only begotten son of God. They are condemned in their own sins. With accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, one is forgiven of their previous mistakes and mishaps. Without accepting Jesus, they will die in their sins. It's not specifically the accepting Jesus that saves them. The accepting of Jesus allows our sins to be forgiven. You're trying to re-write the religion to suit your own agenda. I am not, but thank you for showing everyone your arrogance. :D |
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DEEP DOWN, EVERY MAN HAS BEEN ALREADY GIVEN A
MEASURE OF FAITH..TO KNOW GOD. WHEN A MAN IS FACING DEATH... OR IS DROWNING ... OR IS IN A FOXHOLE ...I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT THERE ARE ANY UNBELIEVERS THEN!!!!!
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I AM TALKING ABOUT REJECTING GOD WHEN HE COMES KNOCKING ON YOUR HEARTS DOOR...NOT BECAUSE YOU DON'T YET UNDERSTAND HIM!!!! There is no door on my heart MorningSong. God flows through me freely like the wind. She has no need to knock. |
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DEEP DOWN, EVERY MAN HAS BEEN ALREADY GIVEN A MEASURE OF FAITH..TO KNOW GOD. WHEN A MAN IS FACING DEATH... OR IS DROWNING ... OR IS IN A FOXHOLE ...I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT THERE ARE ANY UNBELIEVERS THEN!!!!! I thought we were talking about religion? I'm personally not an atheist. I could never believe in atheism (i.e. a non-spiritual existence). I honestly don't understand how anyone can. Just the same I've met quite a few atheists who would indeed continue to be atheists right up to their death without a problem. It's simply not important for them to believe in an afterlife, and the thought of ceasing to exist simply doesn't scare them. The mere fact that you feel that facing death would be a major trauma explains to me precisely why a belief in spirituality is so important to you. I don't believe in spirituality because I fear death. I just can't imagine a non-spiritual existence. It's partly an intellectual thing, and partly an intuitive thing. But it most certainly doesn't have anything to do with a fear of death. |
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DEEP DOWN, EVERY MAN HAS BEEN ALREADY GIVEN A MEASURE OF FAITH..TO KNOW GOD. WHEN A MAN IS FACING DEATH... OR IS DROWNING ... OR IS IN A FOXHOLE ...I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT THERE ARE ANY UNBELIEVERS THEN!!!!! I thought we were talking about religion? I'm personally not an atheist. I could never believe in atheism (i.e. a non-spiritual existence). I honestly don't understand how anyone can. Just the same I've met quite a few atheists who would indeed continue to be atheists right up to their death without a problem. It's simply not important for them to believe in an afterlife, and the thought of ceasing to exist simply doesn't scare them. The mere fact that you feel that facing death would be a major trauma explains to me precisely why a belief in spirituality is so important to you. I don't believe in spirituality because I fear death. I just can't imagine a non-spiritual existence. It's partly an intellectual thing, and partly an intuitive thing. But it most certainly doesn't have anything to do with a fear of death. Who fears death? And why would they? |
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Cowboy wrote: I am not, but thank you for showing everyone your arrogance. :D If you going to become hostile and start insulting people it's time to take a break from the computer. No one here is showing any arrogance. The points you made did not address the issues. Warning someone about playing with fire, and a God who is purposefully cruel and mean to people have nothing to do with each other. A cruel mean God is a cruel mean God. The fact that he warns people that he's cruel and mean before acting on these horrible traits doesn't change the fact that he has these bad traits. A cruel mean "god" would be a demon, IMHO. All you have done is confirm that the biblical God is indeed depicted as having the demonic traits of being cruel and mean. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 11/07/11 03:43 PM
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Cowboy....ONLY because you say you are a christian, am I addressing
you about this one ...last.... time: MOST of what you are posting here on this forum, is NOT NOT NOT what the bible teaches at all. Obedience for one , does not get us to heaven....accepting the free gift of grace that god offers us, is ALL that is reguired...not works or obedinece. Works and obedience FOLLOWS after believing.... I do not wish to go thru all of this again with you.
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DEEP DOWN, EVERY MAN HAS BEEN ALREADY GIVEN A MEASURE OF FAITH..TO KNOW GOD. WHEN A MAN IS FACING DEATH... OR IS DROWNING ... OR IS IN A FOXHOLE ...I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT THERE ARE ANY UNBELIEVERS THEN!!!!! I thought we were talking about religion? I'm personally not an atheist. I could never believe in atheism (i.e. a non-spiritual existence). I honestly don't understand how anyone can. Just the same I've met quite a few atheists who would indeed continue to be atheists right up to their death without a problem. It's simply not important for them to believe in an afterlife, and the thought of ceasing to exist simply doesn't scare them. The mere fact that you feel that facing death would be a major trauma explains to me precisely why a belief in spirituality is so important to you. I don't believe in spirituality because I fear death. I just can't imagine a non-spiritual existence. It's partly an intellectual thing, and partly an intuitive thing. But it most certainly doesn't have anything to do with a fear of death. Who fears death? And why would they? Did you read MorningSong's post? No nonbelievers in foxholes, facing death, or drowning? Why would they suddenly become "believers" then if they have no fear of death? |
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Cowboy wrote: I am not, but thank you for showing everyone your arrogance. :D If you going to become hostile and start insulting people it's time to take a break from the computer. No one here is showing any arrogance. The points you made did not address the issues. Warning someone about playing with fire, and a God who is purposefully cruel and mean to people have nothing to do with each other. A cruel mean God is a cruel mean God. The fact that he warns people that he's cruel and mean before acting on these horrible traits doesn't change the fact that he has these bad traits. A cruel mean "god" would be a demon, IMHO. All you have done is confirm that the biblical God is indeed depicted as having the demonic traits of being cruel and mean. No it's just you didn't comprehend what I was saying. Not ment as an insult either. If you tell someone play with fire, they'll wind up burnt. If they continue playing with fire, it is their OWN fault they got burnt. God doesn't condemn anyone. The only one that condemns someone, is themselves. We are told not to do certain things, and the outcome of it if we choose to disobey. Now, who's fault would it be if the someone receives the punishment? It would be the person in question, not God's. God told us not to play with fire. So why not listen, and obey? Why get burned intentionally? |
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Cowboy....ONLY because you say you are a christian, am I addressing you about this one ...last.... time: what you are posting here on this forum, is NOT NOT NOT what the bible teaches at all. Please show me(us) my error then. Someone else may believe the same as I. |
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Cowboy....ONLY because you say you are a christian, am I addressing you about this one ...last.... time: what you are posting here on this forum, is NOT NOT NOT what the bible teaches at all. I will agree with you on that point MorningSong. |
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Cowboy....ONLY because you say you are a christian, am I addressing you about this one ...last.... time: what you are posting here on this forum, is NOT NOT NOT what the bible teaches at all. I will agree with you on that point MorningSong. Then please, I beg of you. Show me my error. |
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