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| Topic: Where in the Genesis is Jesus | |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 11/29/11 09:34 PM
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In God's Time, All Thing Will Be Made Clear. 
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Will this ever end?,Maybe find out next week on General Religion talk. Will it ever stop? Yo, I don't know Turn off the lights and I'll glow To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal Light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle |
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In God's Time, All Thing Will Be Made Clear.
That's a very spiritually romantic thought MorningSong. 
Truly it is. 
Just the same, doesn't that very notion beg the question of why God didn't just make things clear in the first place? I mean seriously? With all the diverse fragmented forms of the Abrahamic religions it's pretty obviously that things were not made clear in the beginning. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 11/29/11 11:31 PM
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Ever do something......regretting later you had
done that something? And had you known the consequences, you would never have done that something in the first place? But you are all the wiser now? But what if you had never done that something at all......you would still be none the wiser,and would still be wanting to do that something, because you would not be aware of the consequences yet . Well...the same goes with man's disobedience in the garden. If man had never disobeyed, he would be none the wiser..and would still be in the garden.......but now that man has disobeyed, and has now experienced the consequences, it is safe to say that if he had a choice, he would never have disobeyed in the first place. Well..God knew this would happen to man.....and had already planned a way for man to be set free of his sin of disobedience......so he could start all over again,afresh, as if he had never sinned at all....except this time, he would be all the wiser....knowing the consequences of sin now. And because God provided a way out of his sin, man is free to serve God once more..but this time with a wise new start and a brand new heart... a glad heart rejoicing that God washed his sins away, and made him brand new all over again...just like he was, before he ever sinned at all. God had this all planned ....right from the start. And finally one day, we get it..and finally see...why we had to go thru all we went thru ... and it all finally makes sense... and it all finally is made clear. All in God's time.
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Genesis chpt 1 verse 26
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Ever do something......regretting later you had done that something? And had you known the consequences, you would never have done that something in the first place? But you are all the wiser now? But what if you had never done that something at all......you would still be none the wiser,and would still be wanting to do that something, because you would not be aware of the consequences yet . Well...the same goes with man's disobedience in the garden. If man had never disobeyed, he would be none the wiser..and would still be in the garden.......but now that man has disobeyed, and has now experienced the consequences, it is safe to say that if he had a choice, he would never have disobeyed in the first place. Well..God knew this would happen to man.....and had already planned a way for man to be set free of his sin of disobedience......so he could start all over again,afresh, as if he had never sinned at all....except this time, he would be all the wiser....knowing the consequences of sin now. And because God provided a way out of his sin, man is free to serve God once more..but this time with a wise new start and a brand new heart... a glad heart rejoicing that God washed his sins away, and made him brand new all over again...just like he was, before he ever sinned at all. God had this all planned ....right from the start. And finally one day, we get it..and finally see...why we had to go thru all we went thru ... and it all finally makes sense... and it all finally is made clear. All in God's time.
How did the PERFECT get corrupted? |
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Already admitted I have messed up in the past, what is your point here? To show that I can admit to my faults and mistakes and learn from them? Cowboy...my point is simple.... when you were "KNOWINGLY" spreading that false gospel ....was you carrying out the commands of God or carrying out the commands of Satan |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Wed 11/30/11 07:09 AM
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Well...the same goes with man's disobedience in the garden. If man had never disobeyed, he would be none the wiser..and would still be in the garden.......but now that man has disobeyed, and has now experienced the consequences, it is safe to say that if he had a choice, he would never have disobeyed in the first place. Sounds good so far. 
Seriously. You've stated a problem that a creator of life could indeed potentially have to deal with. Well..God knew this would happen to man.....and had already planned a way for man to be set free of his sin of disobedience......so he could start all over again,afresh, as if he had never sinned at all....except this time, he would be all the wiser....knowing the consequences of sin now. This is where the biblical picture of God falls flat on its face for me MorningSong. Especially the Christian version of the Abrahamic stories. I personally see no wisdom at all in the approach and methods used by the biblical God to achieve this goal. I disagreed immediately with the Old Testament concept of God accepting blood sacrifices as atonement for "sin" (for disobedience). There's no way that I can possibly see any "wisdom" in that approach. Add to this the fact that appeasing the gods via sacrifices, etc., was a very common superstition among just about every ancient culture. I see no reason to believe that an all-wise God would just coincidentally behave precisely as mankind superstitiously thinks that a God might behave. Moreover, when it comes to something like Christianity, it has gone far beyond an ideal of morality or obedience to God. The Christians ended up creating a religion where mere disbelief is a fatal flaw. As far as I'm concerned that blows it clean out of the water right there. In short, I see no wisdom at all, in the "method" this Christian God used to offer a way for mankind to find salvation. To associate God's plan of "salvation" with such a negative thing as having his supposedly perfectly innocent son butchered at the hands of mankind makes absolutely no sense to me at all. It's like this God would be saying to us, "Here. Nail my innocent perfect son to a pole and I'll offer to forgive you." And now the ONLY WAY to obtain salvation is to condone that act on your behalf. The only way to obtain this God's LOVE is to say, "Yes I condone having your son nailed to a pole on my behalf. If I had been there I would have driven in the spikes myself!" I mean, seriously, that's what is being asked. We are being asked to say, "Yes! I am responsible for that. I am responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus just as much as if I had been there and nailed him to the pole myself". That's what it means to accept this. And if you aren't willing to do the nailing yourself, you're at least willing to condone that someone else did the nailing for you. ~~~~~~ So this religion is basically telling me, "Hey, if you don't accept this bloody crucifixion on YOUR BEHALF, then you go to hell!" WHAT? 
This is where I have a deadly serious problem with this religion MorningSong. What on "God's Green Earth" would butchering God's perfectly innocent son have to do with with mankind's choice of whether or not to "obey" God. So this religion has totally MOVED from being about obeying any God to being about condoning the butchering of God's son on our behalf. It has also MOVED from being about moral behavior, to now being about a BELIEF in this tale. Failure to believe in this tale will now be your new reason for condemnation. Forget about morality, or obedience to God or anything else. If you fail to believe in these stories, too bad sucker! It's not longer about morality, it's now about BELIEF! ~~~~~ As far as I'm concerned this is a religion that has basically become a train-wreck and has gotten completely off the tracks from what it has originally started out being about. It started out being about morals, and ended up being about condoning a bloody crucifixion to save your soul, and BELIEF that this is the only way. Failure to believe is condemnation right there! Forget about morals. This religion has totally left those tracks a long time ago. Now it's all about a BELIEF in a religion. Failure to believe has become a "Sin" in and of itself. 
It's just superstition gone berserk. It's totally out of control and has lost touch with it's original purpose altogether. There is no way that I can even begin to imagine an all-wise supreme being THINKING like this. And therein lies my problem with this religion. I just cannot see this being the master plan of some supposedly all-wise God. I mean, gee whiz, I can personally think up far better solutions than these. So how could I possibly imagine that some supposedly all-wise God couldn't come up with a better plan? ~~~~~ That's the bottom line right there for me MorningSong. I simply cannot imagine a supposedly all-wise entity creating a system of salvation described by Christianity. It makes absolutely no sense to me. However, what I can very easily imagine, is mortal men making these things up. That is extremely easy for me to imagine. So here's the tally: Does this sound like it came from an all-wise supreme being? No. Does this sound like man-made superstition and religious propaganda? Yes. What more can I say? |
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Edited by
funches
on
Wed 11/30/11 09:06 AM
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Ever do something......regretting later you had done that something? And had you known the consequences, you would never have done that something in the first place? But you are all the wiser now? But what if you had never done that something at all......you would still be none the wiser,and would still be wanting to do that something, because you would not be aware of the consequences yet . Well...the same goes with man's disobedience in the garden. If man had never disobeyed, he would be none the wiser..and would still be in the garden.......but now that man has disobeyed, and has now experienced the consequences, it is safe to say that if he had a choice, he would never have disobeyed in the first place. . yep if Man didn't disobey God we could have still been in the garden, we would have had it easy, all that we would have to do all day long is till the soil, there was no need to learn anything, there were no reason to dream or strive or become wise, there was no need to discuss the future, there were no need to send the children to school ....all the knowledge they would require is how to till the soil and not eat from the tree....you don't need school to teach that...all it take is placing the fear of God in those little heathens but there is still hope for man to return back to the ambiance of the Garden, let's first get rid of all the computers and all technology that wasn't in the Garden, let's burn all the books, let's take all the children out of the schools, let's strip and burn all the clothes off of everyone and that will place us back on the road to the garden of Eden but of course if anyone feel that man should be able to have knowledge beyond only tilling the soil ...then it's a good thing that serpent showed up and Adam and Eve disobeyed God |
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, and am not going to take the time to go through this entire post, but:
http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/745/Mystery-Melchizedek-Solved.htm There is only one person Melchizedek could have possibly been - pre-incarnated Jesus. All sorts of evidence for this. 'Observe further: Melchizedek was "without mother, without father, without descent," or as the Phillips translation renders it: "He had no father or mother and no family tree." He was not born as human beings are. He was without father and mother. This does not mean that Melchizedek's records of birth were lost. Without such records human priests could not serve (Ezra 2:62). But here Melchizedek had no genealogy. He must not have been an ordinary mortal. He had no descent or pedigree from another, but was self-existent. Notice Paul's own inspired interpretation of this fact: "Having neither beginning of days, nor end of life" (Hebrews 7:3). Therefore He has always existed from eternity! He was not even created, like angels. But He is now eternally self-existing. And that is true only of GOD deity, not humanity!' << John 8:56 >> Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." Some think this is also refers to Melchizedek, since Abraham met him face to face. Jesus also said '...before Abraham was, I am...' |
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Ever do something......regretting later you had done that something? And had you known the consequences, you would never have done that something in the first place? But you are all the wiser now? But what if you had never done that something at all......you would still be none the wiser,and would still be wanting to do that something, because you would not be aware of the consequences yet . Well...the same goes with man's disobedience in the garden. If man had never disobeyed, he would be none the wiser..and would still be in the garden.......but now that man has disobeyed, and has now experienced the consequences, it is safe to say that if he had a choice, he would never have disobeyed in the first place. . yep if Man didn't disobey God we could have still been in the garden, we would have had it easy, all that we would have to do all day long is till the soil, there was no need to learn anything, there were no reason to dream or strive or become wise, there was no need to discuss the future, there were no need to send the children to school ....all the knowledge they would require is how to till the soil and not eat from the tree....you don't need school to teach that...all it take is placing the fear of God in those little heathens but there is still hope for man to return back to the ambiance of the Garden, let's first get rid of all the computers and all technology that wasn't in the Garden, let's burn all the books, let's take all the children out of the schools, let's strip and burn all the clothes off of everyone and that will place us back on the road to the garden of Eden but of course if anyone feel that man should be able to have knowledge beyond only tilling the soil ...then it's a good thing that serpent showed up and Adam and Eve disobeyed God You're funny. They didn't have to till the ground in the Garden of Eden. Having to till the ground was a punishment put on us. Genesis 3 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. In the garden of Eden we would have had the time to focus our attention to the greatest things in life instead of worrying about money, food, ect. We would have had the time to just love each and everybody. Doing things with one another. Could range from your favourite hobby now to whatever you could possibly think of ever doing. We would have had no worries, money wouldn't even be in existence. We could have just enjoyed life all the time rather then the hassle with life eg., work, sickness, ect. |
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Already admitted I have messed up in the past, what is your point here? To show that I can admit to my faults and mistakes and learn from them? Cowboy...my point is simple.... when you were "KNOWINGLY" spreading that false gospel ....was you carrying out the commands of God or carrying out the commands of Satan I wasn't "KNOWINGLY" spreading false gospel. What I was saying I thought to be true until I was shown different. I didn't continue on with my false teaching(s). I learned something. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Wed 11/30/11 02:17 PM
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The old testament gave us TYPES AND SHADOWS of
things to come...... for instance, Joseph was a type of a saviour.... (notice.... a TYPE of saviour.....not WAS The Saviour...) Melchizedek was a TYPE of a saviour also, and high priest ..... We can learn MUCH from the types and shadows presented in the old testament..... and see how it all unfolds in the new testament.... the WHOLE of God's Word speaks to us .......yesterday, today, and forever |
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Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, and am not going to take the time to go through this entire post, but: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/HWA/k/745/Mystery-Melchizedek-Solved.htm There is only one person Melchizedek could have possibly been - pre-incarnated Jesus. All sorts of evidence for this. 'Observe further: Melchizedek was "without mother, without father, without descent," or as the Phillips translation renders it: "He had no father or mother and no family tree." He was not born as human beings are. He was without father and mother. This does not mean that Melchizedek's records of birth were lost. Without such records human priests could not serve (Ezra 2:62). But here Melchizedek had no genealogy. He must not have been an ordinary mortal. He had no descent or pedigree from another, but was self-existent. Notice Paul's own inspired interpretation of this fact: "Having neither beginning of days, nor end of life" (Hebrews 7:3). Therefore He has always existed from eternity! He was not even created, like angels. But He is now eternally self-existing. And that is true only of GOD deity, not humanity!' << John 8:56 >> Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." Some think this is also refers to Melchizedek, since Abraham met him face to face. Jesus also said '...before Abraham was, I am...' norslyman....the bible will not allow Melchizedek to be Jesus or allow Jesus or any Man to be God.... if Melchizedek pre-incarnated Jesus then that means that Melchizedek had to die or end his own existence as Melchizedek in order to become Jesus .... which would means that Melchizedek does have a beginning and a end and a Mother and Father it could be argued that Melchizedek manifested into Mary's womb as Jesus....but then again Jesus was of a virgin birth from the "seed" not a manifestation |
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Ever do something......regretting later you had done that something? And had you known the consequences, you would never have done that something in the first place? But you are all the wiser now? But what if you had never done that something at all......you would still be none the wiser,and would still be wanting to do that something, because you would not be aware of the consequences yet . Well...the same goes with man's disobedience in the garden. If man had never disobeyed, he would be none the wiser..and would still be in the garden.......but now that man has disobeyed, and has now experienced the consequences, it is safe to say that if he had a choice, he would never have disobeyed in the first place. . yep if Man didn't disobey God we could have still been in the garden, we would have had it easy, all that we would have to do all day long is till the soil, there was no need to learn anything, there were no reason to dream or strive or become wise, there was no need to discuss the future, there were no need to send the children to school ....all the knowledge they would require is how to till the soil and not eat from the tree....you don't need school to teach that...all it take is placing the fear of God in those little heathens but there is still hope for man to return back to the ambiance of the Garden, let's first get rid of all the computers and all technology that wasn't in the Garden, let's burn all the books, let's take all the children out of the schools, let's strip and burn all the clothes off of everyone and that will place us back on the road to the garden of Eden but of course if anyone feel that man should be able to have knowledge beyond only tilling the soil ...then it's a good thing that serpent showed up and Adam and Eve disobeyed God You're funny. They didn't have to till the ground in the Garden of Eden. Having to till the ground was a punishment put on us. Genesis 3 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. In the garden of Eden we would have had the time to focus our attention to the greatest things in life instead of worrying about money, food, ect. We would have had the time to just love each and everybody. Doing things with one another. Could range from your favourite hobby now to whatever you could possibly think of ever doing. We would have had no worries, money wouldn't even be in existence. We could have just enjoyed life all the time rather then the hassle with life eg., work, sickness, ect. Cowboy...God placed Adam in the garden before Adam gave birth to Eve with his rib and before Adam and Eve took for the fruit and before the fall from the garden as indicated in the passage below POSTED BY GOD Genesis 2:5: And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. having to till the ground forever would seem like Hell but according to the passage that was not the intention......so can you explain what punishment you are referring to? |
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Already admitted I have messed up in the past, what is your point here? To show that I can admit to my faults and mistakes and learn from them? Cowboy...my point is simple.... when you were "KNOWINGLY" spreading that false gospel ....was you carrying out the commands of God or carrying out the commands of Satan I wasn't "KNOWINGLY" spreading false gospel. What I was saying I thought to be true until I was shown different. I didn't continue on with my false teaching(s). I learned something. Cowboy...did you have such blind faith that you became a Christian before you read the bible,... or perhaps before you made it to the story about Noah's Ark? ... you claim that no babies drown in The Great Flood because God placed them all on Noah's Ark ....so if you wish to claim that you didn't "KNOWNINGLY" spread this false gospel to the forum....then explain where you got this story from or which of those Satan websites you "google cut and paste " it from |
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You know I sit here and I watch as you jump on the christian. And it is why I know it is the truth.
Morning Song, Cowboy keep sharing your faith, 
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Edited by
funches
on
Wed 11/30/11 03:17 PM
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You know I sit here and I watch as you jump on the christian. And it is why I know it is the truth. Morning Song, Cowboy keep sharing your faith,
Carold...so you also believe that no babies drown in the great flood because God placed them all on Noah's Ark..... jeez...don't any of you Christians read the bible |
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Oh please you make me feel so bad I'm not going to let you make me cringe by such a statement. God is in control.
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Oh please you make me feel so bad I'm not going to let you make me cringe by such a statement. Carold...what made me cringe is that you believe that God didn't drown any babies in the great flood because he placed them all on Noah's Ark .... God is in control. I guess that ends the debate about having "Free Will" |
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