"Death" is not specifically a secular term. When someone says so and so died the other day, that is used as a secular term. For we know not if that person will or will not receive the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ.



Only The Devil and the false prophet will be "tortured" in the lake of fire. For the rest it says this is the "Second Death". Does not say they will be tortured along with Satan and The False Prophet.

Revelation 20:15

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast

into the lake of fire.


Because where one spends eternity is VERY serious

business ( there are souls going into eternity right now

as I write this), people need to know that hell (and

the lake of fire in the final judgment) is real:



In Mark 9:43 Jesus used another powerful image to illustrate the

seriousness of hell. “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.

It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go

into hell, where the fire never goes out.” For most readers, this

image does escape its own gravity—in spite of the goriness! Few

believe that Jesus wants us literally to cut off our own hand. He

would rather that we do whatever is necessary to avoid going to

hell, and that is the purpose of such language—to polarize, to set

up an either/or dynamic, to compare. Since the first part of the

passage uses imagery, the second part does also, and therefore

should not be understood as an encyclopedic description of hell.



In addition to fire, the New Testament describes hell as a

bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14),

darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2

Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place

of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of

gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation

20:12-13). The very variety of hell’s descriptors argues against

applying a literal interpretation of any particular one. For

instance, hell’s literal fire could emit no light, since hell would

be literally dark. Its fire could not consume its literal fuel

(persons!) since their torment is non-ending. Additionally, the

gradation of punishments within hell also confounds literalness.


The variety and symbolic nature of descriptors do

not lessen hell, however—just the opposite, in fact. Their combined

effect describes a hell that is worse than death, darker than

darkness, and deeper than any abyss. Hell is a place with more

wailing and gnashing of teeth than any single descriptor could ever

portray. Its symbolic descriptors bring us to a place beyond the

limits of our language—to a place far worse than we could ever imagine.





exerts from gotquestions.org

Here it is in Jesus' own words (if you believe that Matthew speaks on behalf of Jesus)

Matthew 25:
[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

So anyone who doesn't believe in hell for humans either doesn't believe that Matthew speaks for Jesus, or they don't care what Jesus had to say.

The Catholics are quite passionate about this. And they point out verses like the above specifically. These are words that the Bible attributes to Jesus himself through the writings of Matthew.

Personally I don't believe these writings can be trusted to speak for Jesus at all.

I believe that Jesus was most likely a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva, and the Jesus I know is actually a nice person.

The Jesus created by the New Testament rumors is a monster, IMHO.

Unfortunately it does say that according to Matthew. They will be cast into the everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels.

So, the religion doesn't say what you thought it said.

No problem. Just drop it and pick up a new religion.

Jesus wasn't as nice of a guy as you had originally thought, according to the New Testament rumors.

Accept Jesus as a Mahayana Buddhist and you'll find a friend in a Jesus who's a really nice guy.

This will better explain eternal death

(there is eternal life with God ,and eternal death apart from God).



Question: "What is eternal death?"

Answer: In short, eternal death is the fate that awaits all people

who ultimately reject God, reject the gospel of His Son, Jesus

Christ, and remain in their sin and disobedience. Physical death is

a one-time experience. Eternal death, on the other hand, is

everlasting. It is a death that continues through eternity, a

spiritual death that is experienced on a continual basis. Just as

spiritual life, by grace through faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9)

is everlasting life, eternal death is never-ending.



The most important question to be answered is “Does the Bible teach

the doctrine of eternal death?” If the Bible doesn’t teach eternal

death, then we can pack up and go home because there is no further

debate on the issue. God’s Word, the Bible, is the infallible rule

of faith and practice, and as such we must believe and teach only

what it clearly teaches, and the Bible clearly teaches the doctrine

of eternal death. We can point to several passages that explicitly

state this, but for our purposes, only three will be needed, one

from the Old Testament and two from the New.



• And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,

some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting

contempt. (Daniel 12:2 ESV)



• And [the wicked] will go away into eternal punishment, but the

righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:46 ESV)



• And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he

was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15 ESV). In verse

10, we are told that the Lake of Fire burns “forever and ever.”



All three of these passages (and more could have been added) have as

their main context the scene of final judgment. In other words,

when Christ returns, three things will occur: 1) The general

resurrection of “the living and the dead;” 2) the final judgment;

and 3) the inauguration of the eternal state. Each of these

passages demonstrates that during the final judgment of all people,

Jesus will separate the righteous from the wicked. The righteous

will be ushered into the final state of glory, while the wicked will

be sent to the lake of fire for eternal punishment and torment.

Note too (particularly in the Daniel and Matthew passages) that the

same adjective (“everlasting” or “eternal”) is used to modify

both “life” and “punishment/contempt.” What is true about one

(life) must be true about the other (punishment), that both are

eternal and last forever.



The doctrine of eternal death is not a popular doctrine to teach or

proclaim. To do so often opens one up to scorn and ridicule.

However, we must not let that detract us from what the Bible so

clearly teaches; namely, that due to our being born in sin and

trespasses, we are under the just condemnation of God for our sin.

If we do not embrace the saving message of Jesus Christ, we will

perish in our sin and trespasses and be under God’s just judgment

for our sin—eternal death. This is a sobering doctrine and requires

the utmost care and compassion in its presentation.



gotquestions.org

Well good, glad you agree with what I'm saying :). Because if you'll notice in the verse you posted it does not say ever lasting torment. Says ever lasting punishment. That would be ever lasting death, death with no possible way of returning.

Just to put it back on topic.

Jesus is in not in the ancient book that speaks for Genesis.

But Jesus is in 'Genesis' (that which is the evolution of mankind)...

As are you. (He just came 2000 years before you in the Genesis of Reality).

After seeing what he did with his part of 'now'...

What will you do with your part...

of NOW.

Jesus was in Genesis. Who does it say created everything? God. Ok, now that we have established that, wish for you to read the following.


Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

False premise...

"Jesus was in Genesis. Who does it say created everything? God. Ok, now that we have established that, wish for you to read the following."

Statement based on faith based dogma not fact.

Fact... Jesus was born in the manner of a human child (i.e. mother birthed him in pain.

He ate food and drank water.(God needs not these things).

As far as the Alph/Omega... This concept only exists for men.

God is not subject to time and therefore HAS no begining or end.

Only the seasons of man have such. In the Seasons of Man Jesus was the end of the Cycle of Adam (cycle of man) and the begining of the Cycle of God. (ergo... Begining and the End).

Didn't say he had a beginning. God IS the beginning. Before God there was nothing, because there was nothing before God. And after God eg., "end" there is not after God, therefore he is the end. He is the first and the end. There was nothing before God and there will be nothing after God, for God will never die, he will always be.

God is greater than the begining (the one we can see and grasp).

Your statement that before God was nothing is false.

God moved upon the Abyss. (or so it is written in the Chronicles of Adam).

Before God (as man sees him) was the Abbss.

Look through a telescope at the Abbss.

It is full of stars.

Your book of many sands has also many Gems of Wonder.

In the begining God moved upon the Abyss.

It exists before our creation.

Yes God did existed before man. No one said any different. God has always existed, man only came into the picture a little while ago. But how could there be anything before God when God created everything? He created it, it didn't create him. So how could anything exist before God?

Where have I claimed such?

BY OUR ANCIENT BOOKS.

The Abyss existed before the creation of man...

God moved upon it to 'create'.

We can see into the Abyss with our modern tools. It is a usefull place for creating life. (if one has the time)

Beyond the Abyss is Chaos.

God moves even upon the Chaos.

I can not claim that anything existed before God. (I can not see beyond God to determine what might be there).

Therefore I am comforted by the knowledge that God walks with me.

He is the Greatest range of my vision.

Then who or what created the Abbss? Or what exactly is the Abbss?

No, Matthew and supposedly Jesus don't agree with you at all Cowboy.

It clearly says, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

That is the everlasting punishment that is being referred to here.

It's clearly a reference to being cast into the hell that had originally been prepared for the devil and his angels.

You keep claiming that humans will not be cast into that hell, but here Matthew has Jesus disagreeing with you.

So it's Jesus who doesn't agree with you Cowboy.

Not me.

I personally don't care one way or the other because I realize that these ancient rumors are just superstitions. It makes no sense for a supposedly all-benevolent God to speak about such horror.

Therefore, I can see why these fables are false.

So it doesn't matter to me whether they are claiming to cast people into an eternal hell fire or not. Anymore than it matters to me what Zeus has to say about anything.

AdventureBegins... this type of parable talking is the same that is used in The New Testament in John 1:1 to deceive followers that Jesus a Man not only existed in Genesis but existed as God ..

followers exist on blind faith...why confuse them more than necessary with parable talking

this thread is to find the first passage in the bible where Jesus "indisputably" "unquestionably" "no doubt about it" un-parable-ly enters into the bible ...



hopefully my part of "NOW" won't involve crucifixion

Ever lasting fire PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. We already established that the Devil and his Angels will burn everlasting.

And no this isn't inferring everlasting burning any person. The fire is everlasting because Satan and his Angels will burn everlasting. The only reward for sin is DEATH.

Eternal Death occurs once a person pass away from a flesh and blood body or existence

the bible states that God made Adam into a living soul...

and this is why just because one retains existence as a spirit after death does not mean they are alive ...they merely exist as a conscious presence or an undead soul

Made him a living soul, the only reward for sin is death. There is no "after" death.

then that means that Jesus didn't die on the cross