Topic: Undeniable Truth
poppop33's photo
Thu 05/12/11 01:46 PM
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What Does God Require of Us?


Lesson 1
How You Can Find Out What God Requires

What important information is contained in the Bible? (1)
Who is the Bible's author? (2)
Why should you study the Bible? (3)

1. The Bible is a precious gift from God. It is like a letter from a loving father to his children. It tells us the truth about God—who he is and what he stands for. It explains how to cope with problems and how to find true happiness. The Bible alone tells us what we must do to please God.—Psalm 1:1-3; Isaiah 48:17, 18.



2. The Bible was written by some 40 different men over a period of 1,600 years, beginning in 1513 B.C.E. It is made up of 66 little books. Those who wrote the Bible were inspired by God. They wrote his thoughts, not their own. So God in heaven, not any human on earth, is the Author of the Bible.—2 Timothy 3:16, 17; 2 Peter 1:20, 21.

3. God made sure that the Bible was accurately copied and preserved. More Bibles have been printed than any other book. Not everyone will be happy to see you studying the Bible, but do not let that stop you. Your eternal future depends on your getting to know God and doing his will despite any opposition.—Matthew 5:10-12; John 17:3.


poppop33's photo
Thu 05/12/11 01:51 PM

What Does God Require of Us?


Lesson 2
Who Is God?

Who is the true God, and what is his name? (1, 2)
What sort of body does he have? (3)
What are his outstanding qualities? (4)
Should we use images and symbols in our worship of him? (5)
What are two ways we can learn about God? (6)

1. People worship many things. But the Bible tells us that there is only one TRUE God. He created everything in heaven and on earth. Because he gave us life, he is the only One we should worship.—1 Corinthians 8:5, 6; Revelation 4:11.


2. God has many titles but has only one name. That name is JEHOVAH. In most Bibles, God's name has been removed and has been replaced with the titles LORD or GOD. But when the Bible was written, the name Jehovah appeared in it some 7,000 times!—Exodus 3:15; Psalm 83:18.

3. Jehovah has a body, but it is not like ours. "God is a Spirit," says the Bible. (John 4:24) A spirit is a form of life that is much higher than ours. No human has ever seen God. Jehovah lives in heaven, but he can see all things. (Psalm 11:4, 5; John 1:18) What, though, is the holy spirit? It is not a person like God. Rather, it is God's active force.—Psalm 104:30.
We learn about God from creation and from the Bible


4. The Bible reveals Jehovah's personality to us. It shows that his outstanding qualities are love, justice, wisdom, and power. (Deuteronomy 32:4; Job 12:13; Isaiah 40:26; 1 John 4:8) The Bible tells us that he is also merciful, kind, forgiving, generous, and patient. We, like obedient children, should try to imitate him.—Ephesians 5:1, 2.

5. Should we bow down or pray to images, pictures, or symbols in our worship? No! (Exodus 20:4, 5) Jehovah says that we must worship only him. He will not share his glory with anyone or anything else. Images have no power to help us.—Psalm 115:4-8; Isaiah 42:8.

6. How can we get to know God better? One way is by observing the things he has created and thinking deeply about what they tell us. God's creations show us that he has great power and wisdom. We see his love in all that he has made. (Psalm 19:1-6; Romans 1:20) Another way we can learn about God is by studying the Bible. In it he tells us much more about the kind of God he is. He also tells us about his purpose and what he wants us to do.—Amos 3:7; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.




poppop33's photo
Thu 05/12/11 01:55 PM


Lesson 4
Who Is the Devil?

Satan the Devil—where did he come from? (1, 2)
How does Satan mislead people? (3-7)
Why should you resist the Devil? (7)

1. The word "devil" means someone who tells wicked lies about another person. "Satan" means an enemy or an opposer. These are terms given to God's chief enemy. At first, he was a perfect angel in heaven with God. However, he later thought too much of himself and wanted the worship that rightly belongs to God.—Matthew 4:8-10.



2. This angel, Satan, spoke to Eve by means of a snake. By telling her lies, he got her to disobey God. Satan thus attacked what is called God's "sovereignty," or position as the Most High. Satan questioned whether God rules in a worthy way and in the best interests of His subjects. Satan also brought into question whether any human would remain loyal to God. By doing this, Satan made himself God's enemy. That is why he came to be called Satan the Devil.—Genesis 3:1-5; Job 1:8-11; Revelation 12:9.

3. Satan tries to trick people into worshiping him. (2 Corinthians 11:3, 14) One way he misleads people is through false religion. If a religion teaches lies about God, it really serves the purpose of Satan. (John 8:44) People who are members of false religions may sincerely believe that they are worshiping the true God. But they are really serving Satan. He is 'the god of this world.'—2 Corinthians 4:4. False religion, spiritism,
and nationalism mislead people


4. Spiritism is another way Satan brings people under his power. They may call upon spirits to protect them, to harm others, to foretell the future, or to perform miracles. Satan is the wicked force behind all these practices. To please God, we must have nothing to do with spiritism.—Deuteronomy 18:10-12; Acts 19:18, 19.

5. Satan also misleads people through extreme pride of race and the worship of political organizations. Some feel that their nation or race is better than others. But this is not true. (Acts 10:34, 35) Other people look to political organizations to solve man's problems. By doing this, they are rejecting God's Kingdom. It is the only solution for our problems.—Daniel 2:44.


Resist Satan by continuing to learn about Jehovah

6. Another way Satan misleads people is by tempting them with sinful desires. Jehovah tells us to avoid sinful practices because he knows they will harm us. (Galatians 6:7, 8) Some people may want you to join them in such practices. Remember, though, it is really Satan who wants you to do these things.—1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; 15:33.

7. Satan may use persecution or opposition to get you to leave Jehovah. Some of your loved ones may become very angry because you are studying the Bible. Others may make fun of you. But to whom do you owe your life? Satan wants to frighten you so that you will stop learning about Jehovah. Do not let Satan win! (Matthew 10:34-39; 1 Peter 5:8, 9) By resisting the Devil, you can make Jehovah happy and show that you uphold His sovereignty.—Proverbs 27:11.


Published in 1996



poppop33's photo
Thu 05/12/11 02:00 PM



Lesson 13
How Can You Find the True Religion?

Are all religions pleasing to God, or is just one? (1)
Why are there so many religions that claim to be Christian? (2)
How can you identify true Christians? (3-7)

1. Jesus started one true Christian religion. So today there must be just one body, or group, of true worshipers of Jehovah God. (John 4:23, 24; Ephesians 4:4, 5) The Bible teaches that only a few people are on the narrow road to life.—Matthew 7:13, 14.

2. The Bible foretold that after the death of the apostles, wrong teachings and unchristian practices would slowly come into the Christian congregation. Men would draw away believers to follow them instead of Christ. (Matthew 7:15, 21-23; Acts 20:29, 30) That is why we see so many different religions that claim to be Christian. How can we identify true Christians?

3. The most outstanding mark of true Christians is that they have real love among themselves. (John 13:34, 35) They are not taught to think that they are better than people of other races or skin color. Neither are they taught to hate people from other countries. (Acts 10:34, 35) So they do not share in wars. True Christians treat one another as brothers and sisters.—1 John 4:20, 21.

4. Another mark of true religion is that its members have a deep respect for the Bible. They accept it as the Word of God and believe what it says. (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17) They treat God's Word as being more important than human ideas or customs. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) They try to live by the Bible in their everyday life. So they do not preach one thing and then practice another.—Titus 1:15, 16.

True Christians love one another, respect the Bible, and preach about God's Kingdom

5. The true religion must also honor God's name. (Matthew 6:9) Jesus made God's name, Jehovah, known to others. True Christians must do the same. (John 17:6, 26; Romans 10:13, 14) Who are the people in your community that tell others about God's name?

6. True Christians must preach about God's Kingdom. Jesus did so. He always talked about the Kingdom. (Luke 8:1) He commanded his disciples to preach this same message in all the earth. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20) True Christians believe that only God's Kingdom will bring true peace and security to this earth.—Psalm 146:3-5.

7. Jesus' disciples must be no part of this wicked world. (John 17:16) They do not get involved in the world's political affairs and social controversies. They avoid the harmful conduct, practices, and attitudes that are common in the world. (James 1:27; 4:4) Can you identify a religious group in your community that has these marks of true Christianity?


Published in 1996


:heart:

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 05/12/11 02:31 PM
poppop33

4. The Bible reveals Jehovah's personality to us. It shows that his outstanding qualities are love, justice, wisdom, and power. (Deuteronomy 32:4; Job 12:13; Isaiah 40:26; 1 John 4:8) The Bible tells us that he is also merciful, kind, forgiving, generous, and patient. We, like obedient children, should try to imitate him.—Ephesians 5:1, 2.


It doesn't take much to see that this is a lie.

The God depicted in the Bible ordered people to murder innocent women and children. He also doesn't exhibit any qualities of love, justice, wisdom or power (and certainly no patience at all). On the contrary the Bible depicts a god that is unloving, unrighteous, unwise, and certainly powerless. He couldn't even save his only begotten son, that's how totally powerless he is. Either that or he's a sadist who can't forgive people unless he's appeased by watching his very own son be crucified on a pole. I'm not sure if that comes under the category of mere lack of wisdom, or outright sadistic sickness.

The God portrayed in the Bible is perverted and sick. Not to mention being a great supporter of male-chauvinism.

So just because they have a few verses that claim otherwise is not impressive. They overall stories reveal the evil nature of their demonic "God".

So the book is clearly nothing more than a bunch of conflicting babble that has no more merit than Greek Mythology.


The only "lesson" we can learn from the Bible is that a lot of people will fall for things like this without truly taking any time to think about them wisely.

no photo
Thu 05/12/11 07:01 PM
Edited by greeneyeman on Thu 05/12/11 07:54 PM
The truth is that we will never know.

It is that simple.

Let us say Christianity is right. That what the bible says is the words of God. That we have to do all these things asked off to make it to a heaven. That we are sent here for punishment perhaps as sinners and must follow the rules.

And even though we can envision it better as a God, or can't imagine that a God may have flaws such as ordering death to those that are bad, but maybe it is the way it is.

Nothing is perfect. Not even our world. Perhaps not even our God. The last part is hard to believe for Christians...I know! They are already saying impossible. God is perfect and giving us a chance!

Yet we skeptics don't see perfection if a God uses violence to bring his satisfaction to get his required daily obedience.

Since we don't know what is in our afterlife...we create a vision to soothe our souls when the time comes. Of course Christians believe the answer is right there in the book! Right there in black and white! Just read it. So you squeeze your eyeballs on each word and still think...my goodness what is wrong with this God. Why so angry?

For me Buddhism makes more sense, but for the majority in this country Christianity does. What can we do about it nothing? I will remain the minority as a agnostic and I am perfectly happy that I am. It leaves me with more options to explore and exploit ideas and opinions as to being reserved to one subject, which is only the bible.

Let them believe in such a lifestyle and we believe in ours. There is no more we can do about it. Yes we can express our opinions and even debate about it. It is healthy to do so, but I learned that those that really practice with faith a religion then it will always be hard (almost impossible) to convince them to see other possiblities. It just doesn't happen very often, if at all.

At least I can say I have a clean conscience about it all. It is what it is and I feel great about it.

EasternSquirrel's photo
Thu 05/12/11 07:59 PM
what anyone can read in a written language means absolutely nothing.

What matters is knowing within yourself the difference between right and wrong. Then, taking that responsibility for your own actions.

Even if there were no written "word" ...

you know nothing of the "word", claiming what is written is undeniable truth. That's where you're wrong.
The undeniable truth is within you and it has been within you since you first began learning values.
Your own sense of right and wrong cries out within you, when you see an injustice. Those are the "unwritten" laws that beg for your action. There is no sin in doing what is good. That fulfills the law.
For those of you who would seek the guidance from the Almighty,
even the name Jehova is incorrect because the name of the Almighty
is unknowable. Seek first within and when you reach that point of revelation, you will discover that it had been reaching out for you all the time.

no photo
Thu 05/12/11 08:28 PM
Edited by MorningSong on Thu 05/12/11 08:41 PM
"..... That we have to do all these things

asked off to make it to a heaven. That we are sent here for

punishment perhaps as sinners and must follow the rules."





The above statement is just one example , of

MANY false

notions going around ,

about what the bible says ,

or about what christianity is all about.


That is why it is important to not go by what man says,

but instead, to open the book and find out the TRUTH for

oneself.


"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God".


Hearing the WORD brings forth Faith.....


because the WORD then begins to ILLUMINATE within our

heart.


God begins to Illuminate HIS WORD within our hearts ,

as we hear HIS WORD.


That is How FAITH Comes.


God is MORE than ABLE to SAVE to the UTTERMOST.



There IS Nothing we HAVE to do,to be Saved, except to

BELIEVE....and RECIEVE JESUS INTO OUR HEART.flowerforyou

GOD does the Rest.


AFTERWARDS....AFTER we are born again,

THEN we WILLINGLY OBEY GOD now, ONLY because NOW we have a NEW

NATURE

within us , which comes as a result of being BORN AGAIN.


"Old things are passed away, behold all things have become new."



God NEVER intended for us to stay in the Dark about WHO HE IS .....


THAT is WHY GOD left us a road map......


HIS WORD......

TO LIGHT THE WAY

AND

SHOW US ALL .....


THE WAY BACK HOME.



:heart::heart::heart:

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 05/12/11 08:32 PM

"..... That we have to do all these things

asked off to make it to a heaven. That we are sent here for

punishment perhaps as sinners and must follow the rules."





The above statement is just one example , of

MANY false

notions going around ,

about what the bible says ,

or about what christianity is all about.


That is why it is important to not go by what man says,

but instead, to open the book and find out the TRUTH for

oneself.


"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God".


Hearing the WORD brings forth Faith.....

because the WORD then begins to ILLUMINATE within our

heart.


God begins to Illuminate HIS WORD within our hearts ,

are we hear HIS WORD.


That is How FAITH Comes.


God is MORE than ABLE to SAVE to the UTTERMOST.



There IS Nothing we HAVE to do,to be Saved, except to

BELIEVE....and RECIEVE JESUS INTO OUR HEART.flowerforyou

GOD does the Rest.


AFTERWARDS....AFTER we are born again,

THEN we WILLINGLY OBEY GOD now, ONLY because NOW we have a NEW

NATURE

within us , which comes as a result of being BORN AGAIN.


"Old things are passed away, behold all things have become new."



God NEVER intended for us to stay in the dark about WHO HE IS .....


THAT is WHY GOD left us a road map......HIS WORD......

SHOWING US ALL .....THE WAY BACK HOME.



:heart::heart::heart:




God NEVER intended for us to stay in the dark about WHO HE IS .....


THAT is WHY GOD left us a road map......HIS WORD......

SHOWING US ALL .....THE WAY BACK HOME.


AMEN!!

no photo
Thu 05/12/11 08:55 PM
The core of Christian belief is based on the idea that everyone has sinned, and because you have done anything wrong that God will punish you by burning you with fire, or otherwise torturing you forever. If a 5 year old tells a lie and then dies, God will burn that kid in Hell forever.Out here in the real world, if someone behaved like God supposedly does, that person would be severely mentally deranged. We put people who behave like God in jail or mental institutions. In fact, many people are locked up every year for imitating the "Wrath of God".

It is you that needs to go reread the bible and see what it is.

and I say AMEN to that ********. lol

no photo
Thu 05/12/11 09:00 PM
and to add to that....

Then there's this Jesus guy who's supposed to be "God's Son", born of a virgin, because sex is something evil like cowboy has been debating with on the other site, and he's here to cut a deal to get you around his dad's wrath. God has an anger problem you see, and so he has to sacrifice his own kid to appease himself so that he doesn't have to torture people he created forever in Hell. So, Jesus has to die on the Cross for your sins, but then he's resurrected, so he's not really dead anymore. And now he's "paid the price" so those who "believe" in him will not fry in Hell like the rest of us.

Even though God created the universe and created billions of us, and he's all powerful and all knowing, he seems to have an identity problem and is so insecure that he needs us to worship him. Kind of like a kid shaking his fist over and ant colony demanding to be worshiped and obeyed, but on a much larger scale. God loves us, but needs to punish us, unless we worship him. It's like God is some southern hick child abuser or something. Maybe we should call family services on God for child abuse? Anyhow, Christians believe God has a God sized ego problem and needs us to worship him or he throws fits like destroying the world and such. God doesn't seem to have much control over his behavior and often is controlled by his own strong emotions. Wait but didn't a previous religion do that also...Oh yes the ancient Greek religion...wait wait! It is called mythology! Christianity really needs to go to that vault also and be called Christian Mythology.

but let us continue...

God doesn't seem to really care much about what you do, but in what you believe in. It's "faith" not "works" that impress God. So, a mass murder who gets "saved" during his lethal injection will go to Heaven, but the Dalai Lama is going to burn in Hell. So, you can be bad all your life and change at the last minute and get into Heaven. Christians obviously think God is pretty stupid and will fall for something like that. Actually, they don't "think" that because you're not supposed to think. you got to "have faith" to believe something that stupid. Faith is the belief in something that has no basis in logic or reason.

The bottom line is, Christianity is about the fear of going to Hell. They say it's about "love" to, but hey, people who love you don't torture you in Hell forever, so I'm not buying the "he loves you" crap. And even though God created the universe, he's just not very good with money, and he needs you to give him your cash. God was a lot more out there in ancient times than he is today. God likes to work behind the screens, being the invisible guy in the sky, and let the churches do his work. He doesn't talk directly, so he need babbling nut cases to speak for him, (in tongues), with another nut case interpreting it. God is rather impotent these days and is authority seems to be limited to getting even with you after you're dead. So God needs his army of Christian Soldiers to do his work for him.

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 05/12/11 09:26 PM

"..... That we have to do all these things

asked off to make it to a heaven. That we are sent here for

punishment perhaps as sinners and must follow the rules."



The above statement is just one example , of

MANY false

notions going around ,

about what the bible says ,

or about what christianity is all about.



:heart::heart::heart:




But the very reason that this exists in first place MorningSong is precisely because of people who go around claiming to "know" what the Bible says, arguing their interpretations of scriptures and constantly preaching that "God wants this" and "God expects that", and all God wants from you is to "obey my interpretations" of scriptures, and so on and so forth ad nauseam.

The Protestant movement was at one time a good idea. People got fed up with the Catholic Church dictating what God wants from people. So they decided to protest against the church and form a spiritual belief where each individual just reads the scriptures and decides for themselves what their creator might expect from them.

But unfortunately Protestantism fell victim to religious perverts who lust to become Paper Popes. They can't be happy unless they decide what God wants and expects from everyone. So they delude themselves into believing that they are "servants of God", by going around preaching what they believe God so desperately needs in order to pacify his wrathful restless perverted personality.

They are the ones who pervert God.

If they didn't constantly preach their perversions, there wouldn't be any false notions to worry about.

I try my best to make God out to be absolutely divine. But every time I try to make Jesus out to be a nice guy, the perverted proselytizers are quick to demand that he's a raving maniac who will condemn anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with their views.

laugh

Just like you say MorningSong, there are a lot of false notions going around.

I've read the Bible and what I see is Jesus himself being quoted as saying that he will not judge anyone for not believing in him. I also see him reneging on all the previous threats he made when it comes down to the wire and forgiving people who are even crucifying him pleading with God himself to forgive people for they know not what they do.

Even Jesus himself saw the futility of judgment in the end and even pleaded with God himself not to "judge others". laugh

So there you have it. Jesus does not believe in judging anyone for anything. You'd really need to do some truly evil thing with absolute premeditated malice before this guy would judge you harshly.

But these perverted proselytizers would have Jesus condemning totally innocent decent people for merely not believing in Jesus.

whoa

That's something that these stories even quote Jesus himself as clearly stating that he will NOT do.

So these proselytizers are actually spitting in the very face of Jesus when they claim otherwise.

They don't care about Jesus, all they care about is using Jesus to spread hatred and religious bigotry in his name.




no photo
Thu 05/12/11 09:41 PM
poppop33 posted from his one of the 32,000 denominations bible:

2. The Bible was written by some 40 different men over a period of 1,600 years, beginning in 1513 B.C.E. It is made up of 66 little books. Those who wrote the Bible were inspired by God. They wrote his thoughts, not their own. So God in heaven, not any human on earth, is the Author of the Bible.—2 Timothy 3:16, 17; 2 Peter 1:20, 21.


The bible was actually inspired by 40 different men that used their fantasy and imagination when looking for water in the desert. These desert nomads were unhappy that they had no wine and ladies around them at the time. What do you expect them to write? Something enjoyable and great for everyone to believe no. They were writing their frustrations of their current situations. lol

Written by 40 different men!

Over a period of 1,600 years!

Just think about it for a moment. Adding more fairy tales every hundred years of supernatural events, wars, torture, harsh punishments, fear, and anxiety. How can you believe any of the stories to be realistic. It does make a great fantasy novel between good versus evil. I mean with the computer graphics today we have alot of movies because of it.



no photo
Thu 05/12/11 10:18 PM
Those who wrote the Bible were inspired by God. They wrote his thoughts, not their own. So God in heaven, not any human on earth, is the Author of the Bible.



Being "inspired" to write is not the same as a channeled writing. Only a channeled writing can claim to be authored by a spirit or by God. The belief is that the scripture was "inspired" by God. That means that it was written with the inspired thoughts of the men who wrote it. The words are not God's words. God does not speak any language of mankind.




no photo
Fri 05/13/11 01:15 AM

The core of Christian belief is based on the idea that everyone has sinned, and because you have done anything wrong that God will punish you by burning you with fire, or otherwise torturing you forever. If a 5 year old tells a lie and then dies, God will burn that kid in Hell forever.Out here in the real world, if someone behaved like God supposedly does, that person would be severely mentally deranged. We put people who behave like God in jail or mental institutions. In fact, many people are locked up every year for imitating the "Wrath of God".

It is you that needs to go reread the bible and see what it is.

and I say AMEN to that ********. lol





People who don't know about Christianity should stop making claims about the core beliefs.


If you've read the Bible, show me where I can find a reference to the word "hell" that was NOT translated from a proper noun....




no photo
Fri 05/13/11 10:00 AM


The core of Christian belief is based on the idea that everyone has sinned, and because you have done anything wrong that God will punish you by burning you with fire, or otherwise torturing you forever. If a 5 year old tells a lie and then dies, God will burn that kid in Hell forever.Out here in the real world, if someone behaved like God supposedly does, that person would be severely mentally deranged. We put people who behave like God in jail or mental institutions. In fact, many people are locked up every year for imitating the "Wrath of God".

It is you that needs to go reread the bible and see what it is.

and I say AMEN to that ********. lol





People who don't know about Christianity should stop making claims about the core beliefs.


If you've read the Bible, show me where I can find a reference to the word "hell" that was NOT translated from a proper noun....






Now we have a Christian who says that there is no such thing as a hell. Which of the 32,000 denominations do you belong to...or are you another who has created your own version.

chuckles

Oh the Christians who have been brainwashed with their beliefs of what is right or wrong. Instead of just using their own common sense then a book full of fairy tales.

Good luck with that. :)

EasternSquirrel's photo
Fri 05/13/11 10:09 AM
to "See" and "Hear" the truth....
one must do so in the spirit and not with the physical.
To see, one must be willing to look beyond physical sight.
To hear, one must be willing to listen beyond physical hearing.

Abracadabra's photo
Fri 05/13/11 11:53 AM
Edited by Abracadabra on Fri 05/13/11 11:57 AM
Peter_Pan wrote:

People who don't know about Christianity should stop making claims about the core beliefs.


It's actually a quite false accusation by "Christians" that people who do not believe in Christianity do not know about.

There are quite many scholars who have studied the Biblical scriptures far deeper than most people who claim to be "Christians", and they have concluded that these scriptures are untenable, etc.


If you've read the Bible, show me where I can find a reference to the word "hell" that was NOT translated from a proper noun....


People commonly use the term "Hell" to refer to the place of everlasting punishment that Jesus claim people will be sent to if they fail to live up to God's expectations.

Whether the actual term "hell" is a valid label or not is totally irrelevant. The concept of a state of eternal damnation that ends in everlasting punishment has been well-established by the words attribute to Jesus.


Matt.25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


So here we have Matthew claiming that Jesus himself is confirming the existence of a place of "everlasting punishment".

You can argue until you are blue in the face that this place of everlasting punishment should not be properly labeled as "Hell".

But that would truly be a moot point. Clearly the place of eternal damnation exists and its not going to be pleasant. It's going to be a state of everlasting punishment according to Jesus himself supposedly.

So Christians truly have no choice but to accept the "concept" of hell for humans whether this state of being is properly named "hell" or not.

The common use of the word 'hell' has simply come to mean "an extremely unpleasant experience of place".

So in that sense a state of everlasting punishment would certainly be "hell" by the common usage of the word.

So it's actually any Christians themselves who are in denial of such state of "hell" for humans who do not "know" what the scriptures have to say.

In fact, there are many references in the New Testament to a state of anguish and pain (i.e. a state of "hell" by common meaning of the term)


Matt.8

[12] But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt.13

[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
[50] And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matt.22

[13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt.24

[51] And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt.25

[30] And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke.13

[28] There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


Weeping and gnashing of teeth in a furnace of fire? Sounds pretty "hellish" if you ask me. Sounds like something Hitler would do to the Jews.

The argument that many apologists who refute the concept of "hell" try to offer here is that there is nothing in any of these verses that claim that this state will be eternal.

However, their arguments are countered by Jesus own words in Matthew 25:46 where he verifies that this state of punishment will indeed be "everlasting".

So any Christian who denies this concept of everlasting punishment is actually in denial of the very scriptures that they are attempting to claim that "non-Christians" don't know about.

The actual truth is that most people who consider themselves to be "Christians" genuinely aren't aware of what's in the scriptures that they claim to believe in.




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Fri 05/13/11 02:42 PM



The core of Christian belief is based on the idea that everyone has sinned, and because you have done anything wrong that God will punish you by burning you with fire, or otherwise torturing you forever. If a 5 year old tells a lie and then dies, God will burn that kid in Hell forever.Out here in the real world, if someone behaved like God supposedly does, that person would be severely mentally deranged. We put people who behave like God in jail or mental institutions. In fact, many people are locked up every year for imitating the "Wrath of God".

It is you that needs to go reread the bible and see what it is.

and I say AMEN to that ********. lol





People who don't know about Christianity should stop making claims about the core beliefs.


If you've read the Bible, show me where I can find a reference to the word "hell" that was NOT translated from a proper noun....






Now we have a Christian who says that there is no such thing as a hell. Which of the 32,000 denominations do you belong to...or are you another who has created your own version.

chuckles

Oh the Christians who have been brainwashed with their beliefs of what is right or wrong. Instead of just using their own common sense then a book full of fairy tales.

Good luck with that. :)



Hmmm, a chuckle instead of a verse...


Good luck with what you think you know...


rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl




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Fri 05/13/11 04:01 PM

Peter_Pan wrote:

People who don't know about Christianity should stop making claims about the core beliefs.


It's actually a quite false accusation by "Christians" that people who do not believe in Christianity do not know about.

There are quite many scholars who have studied the Biblical scriptures far deeper than most people who claim to be "Christians", and they have concluded that these scriptures are untenable, etc.


If you've read the Bible, show me where I can find a reference to the word "hell" that was NOT translated from a proper noun....


People commonly use the term "Hell" to refer to the place of everlasting punishment that Jesus claim people will be sent to if they fail to live up to God's expectations.

Whether the actual term "hell" is a valid label or not is totally irrelevant. The concept of a state of eternal damnation that ends in everlasting punishment has been well-established by the words attribute to Jesus.


Matt.25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


So here we have Matthew claiming that Jesus himself is confirming the existence of a place of "everlasting punishment".

You can argue until you are blue in the face that this place of everlasting punishment should not be properly labeled as "Hell".

But that would truly be a moot point. Clearly the place of eternal damnation exists and its not going to be pleasant. It's going to be a state of everlasting punishment according to Jesus himself supposedly.

So Christians truly have no choice but to accept the "concept" of hell for humans whether this state of being is properly named "hell" or not.

The common use of the word 'hell' has simply come to mean "an extremely unpleasant experience of place".

So in that sense a state of everlasting punishment would certainly be "hell" by the common usage of the word.

So it's actually any Christians themselves who are in denial of such state of "hell" for humans who do not "know" what the scriptures have to say.

In fact, there are many references in the New Testament to a state of anguish and pain (i.e. a state of "hell" by common meaning of the term)


Matt.8

[12] But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt.13

[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
[50] And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matt.22

[13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt.24

[51] And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt.25

[30] And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke.13

[28] There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


Weeping and gnashing of teeth in a furnace of fire? Sounds pretty "hellish" if you ask me. Sounds like something Hitler would do to the Jews.

The argument that many apologists who refute the concept of "hell" try to offer here is that there is nothing in any of these verses that claim that this state will be eternal.

However, their arguments are countered by Jesus own words in Matthew 25:46 where he verifies that this state of punishment will indeed be "everlasting".

So any Christian who denies this concept of everlasting punishment is actually in denial of the very scriptures that they are attempting to claim that "non-Christians" don't know about.

The actual truth is that most people who consider themselves to be "Christians" genuinely aren't aware of what's in the scriptures that they claim to believe in.






LOL!

You'll love this response Abra, from your own keyboard no less...(all I changed was the name and added a comma)



Abra, you FOCUS on the NEGATIVE!

You shove the worst possible verses in the mouth of your little Marionette Jesus Doll to try to portray an image of a condemning Jesus.

That's your CHOICE.

You CHOOSE to use the story of Jesus for NEGATIVE purposes.

You could JUST AS EASILY, agree with me, that Jesus clearly changed his mind about all of that at Calvary and clearly pleaded a case to the "Father God" himself that it's not wise to condemn people who do not fully understand what they are doing.

So it's YOUR CHOICE to continually paint Jesus out to be a dastardly jerk.

You aren't spreading "enlightenment" of any kind whatsoever.

All you are doing is trying to SHOVE your negative picture of Jesus and Christianity onto other people.

whoa

You flatly REFUSE to even consider anything POSITIVE!

All you care about is spreading NEGATIVITY in the name of Jesus.

And it's nothing more than your own personal views and agenda. It's absolutely false to suggest that Jesus or anyone else would support your constant negativity.