Freakyshiki you have no case.

Attempting to disprove Jesus's non-existence is you looking for support for your belief, not you looking to disprove it.

You are afraid to look for proof to disprove your belief.

No matter. You have no case. You have not proven anything.

Case closed. Too bad, I was really hoping you had proof. If you did, you could become famous. You would have loved that.

Have a blissful evening.

The Resurrection wont be SCIENTIFICALLY proven, anymore than the events of the day my mom fell in love with my dad will be SCIENTIFICALLY proven. However, since science is not my God, its irrelevant to whether I believe it happened or have faith in the way my MOTHER told me it happened(without any other verifiable sources but MY MOTHER to depend on).

I can, and I don't need any physical evidence at all. Just the story alone contradicts itself.

First off, the physical body is not the "spirit".

If Jesus rose from the "dead" in a spiritual form, he would not need a physical body to do that. In other words, all that people would have had to see was the Ghost of Jesus. He's physical body could remain in the tomb and rot away back into dust. The physical body is unimportant to spirit.

Yet this story requires that Jesus' physical body was resurrected, and that Jesus' physical body ascended to "heaven" which is merely to go up in the sky. It even implies that there is a physical DIRECTION that a physical body needs to go in order to get to heaven.

Thus this story is clearly just superstition that wasn't even well-thought-out.

If it had Jesus just returning as a "Ghost" only and then just disappearing into think air when he leaves it might have been just a tad bit more believable (at least in the technical aspects), but as it is written it's clearly a false fable.

It also has a multitude of saint being physically jostled from their graves as well, and rising up as physical resurrections and then going into the city to show themselves to the people there (an even that was never recorded independently in the actual history of the city in question.

So the authors of this story shot themselves in the foot repeatedly.

Also, the Bible has God himself referring to the "Stars in heaven".

Well, duh. If the stars are "in heaven" then heaven is just the universe. And the sun is a typical star too, so the solar system and Earth itself would already be in "heaven".

So once again the story reveals itself to be nothing more than the superstitious myths of men.

They looked up at the night sky and thought the stars were in "heaven". And they believed the earth to be the central purpose of God's creation.

We now know that none of that is correct. The sun and Earth hold no special place in the universe, and the universe is the same in all directions. Stars are just other suns most likely with other planets orbiting them as well.

So the whole story book is as false as Greek Mythology.

That we can know for certain.

The idea that a person needs their physical body to be resurrected in order to "ascend" into "heaven" is a bogus idea to begin with.

Besides what would happen to people who's bodies had been totally physically destroyed or cremated and their ashes spread the wind?

Could they then not be resurrected by simply jostling their graves?

The whole idea that physical bodies need to be resurrected to maintain a "spiritual afterlife", flies in the very face that the afterlife is supposed to be spiritual and NOT physical.

So the whole story of Jesus' physical resurrection in a body is nonsense to begin with. That wouldn't be required for spiritual existence anyway.

Even if spiritual existence has some sort of "physical form", surely we wouldn't be taking our bodies from THIS LIFE with us to the spiritual world.

If we do that I sure hope I can at least leave my hemorrhoids here.

msharmony

You are right. It is irrelevant whether it can be proven or disproved. It is what you chose to believe and get out of the story that counts.
It is even irrelevant if it happened or never happened.

Personally I don't care one way or another. It is when people try to tell me that I must believe and I must except their personal doctrines and world views that I say.... its irrelevant, go away don't bother me.

My relationship with God is personal. It really is. Nobody has the right to get into my personal business and tell me how I should believe. (It is the devil in the details--and the devil is irrelevant.)

If Jesus rose from the "dead" in a spiritual form, he would not need a physical body to do that. In other words, all that people would have had to see was the Ghost of Jesus. He's physical body could remain in the tomb and rot away back into dust. The physical body is unimportant to spirit.




I think this is assuming the only things that happen are what the NEEDS or PURPOSE of his physical body were,,,


to raise in spirit would NOT require a physical body BUT he did walk the earth IN a physical body and quite possibly to 'prove' in tangible terms that he had indeed risen and people were not just imagining or seeing things,, his physical body did NEED to also raise and not just be 'left behind'

JellyBean writes:

"If you did, you could become famous."

The Shiki is already famous. Fame, without Christ, means nothing.

Abracadabra raises some interesting points, but all of them are explained nicely in the Bible. Again, he is not using logic here.

Logically speaking, I have proven Christ's resurrection. Thus far, nobody can provide any evidence to the contrary. msharmony is correct that this is not scientifically proving Him, but in a court of law, there would be enough evidence.

Well, duh. If the stars are "in heaven" then heaven is just the universe. And the sun is a typical star too, so the solar system and Earth itself would already be in "heaven".


this again assumes, assumes ALL stars are in heaven

thats like assuming a statement like 'the grass in ohio' means that everyplace there is grass must be inside of ohio,,

No, freakyshiki is not famous, he is delusional and egotistical, arrogant, sarcastic, and chauvinistic. Just to name a few.

And they believed the earth to be the central purpose of God's creation.

We now know that none of that is correct. The sun and Earth hold no special place in the universe, and the universe is the same in all directions. Stars are just other suns most likely with other planets orbiting them as well.




how do we 'know' this,, who determined it and with what criteria


is there HUMAN life on any of the other planets or stars, or did we just accidentally ONLY evolve here,,,,?

not really.... they thought things differently back then, they didn't understand things as we do now... their logic was based on "that looks like that, so it must be true" - random reasoning and no investigation of the facts at hand. An example would be "it has not rained in a week, so lets sacrifice a virgin to appease the rain gods" so if one person thought something, and then told others and convinced them, whole villages would soon believe what one person thought he might have seen. so, they could be just writing down what one person thought he saw after eating a few mushrooms...

"No, freakyshiki is not famous, he is delusional and egotistical, arrogant, sarcastic, and chauvinistic. Just to name a few."

Chauvenistic? Me? I am a quiet little fieldmouse.

The whole idea that physical bodies need to be resurrected to maintain a "spiritual afterlife", flies in the very face that the afterlife is supposed to be spiritual and NOT physical.


again, I have no idea where the Bible says this,,,,

But now you're having Jesus or God trying to 'prove' things to people. If God wanted to 'prove' things to people he could have done a darn site better than through the Hebrew fables.

In fact, these stories are indeed desperate to have God "proving" them because they even claim to have God speaking from the heavens to crowds of people. Yet another event that has no independent historical evidence.

Clearly if it was God's intention to 'prove' something to people he failed miserably since the Jews themselves did not buy into these rumors.

These are the kinds of extremely feeble excuses that people give for these stories, but they don't hold up to serious consideration.

If an all-powerful all-wise God wanted to 'prove' his existence and the existence of a spiritual afterlife to people, then he could easily do that without all the ambiguities and absurdities required to believe in the Hebrew stories.

One minute these scriptures are claiming that God wants us to have 'faith' and it's important to "believe" in God, and the next minute they have God speaking to large crowds of people from heaven so that THOSE PEOPLE have no need for faith, they heard God's voice directly themselves!

Well, when God speaks to me from the heavens in an audible physical voice, I'll believe.

Until then all I have are stories that shoot themselves in their own foot.

To be perfectly honest about I couldn't care less what the bible has to say. What I've found is that these collections are so totally filled with contradictions, absurdities and outright lies, that I see no reason to even care what they might say.

Usually if they say someone in one place, they'll just say something that totally contradicts that in another place anyway. So there's no sense in even bothering to read them at all.

God is out to 'prove' nothing. God has nothing to 'prove'. It is our choice, our decision. It's all up to us, again God has nothing to 'prove'. It's only YOU that seems to have something to 'prove'.

Yes you are right. God has nothing to prove.. but...

Again, Cowboy.... Abra is referring to the fact that Jesus (called God) had to rise from the dead to prove that there is life after death....

The story goes..

If Jesus had not done that.. would anyone have believed his claims? No, they would not. In fact, even his disciples denied and doubted him until they saw him and felt the holes in his hands and feet right?

Then it is claimed all across the land that Jesus has risen from the dead..... so he must be God.

That is what Abra is talking about.

Jesus being resurrected wasn't to "prove" anything. Jesus conquered death, that is all. Wasn't a display to "prove" anything.

That must be your own personal doctrine Cowboy. Are you starting your own church?

No it's not and no I'm not. Why do you say such antagonizing things?

Why is that antagonizing??

You make statements about God and Christianity I have never heard before. What church do you belong to? It just sounds like you're making that stuff up.