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| Topic: A question on killing | |
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Cowboy wrote: We don't assume. I absolutely know without a doubt who our father is and the he exists just as you and I. I absolutely know without a doubt that Jesus Christ is the only begotten child of our father, is the path to our father, and is our saviour. No assumptions, I absolutely know for a fact without doubt. So in other words, you don't need to have faith because you have absolute divine knowledge of truth. Is that what you're telling us? We all have that divine knowledge. It just boils down to if one is willing to accept it. |
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People have become too soft. It is easy for people to take the easy way out and not want to kill someone who is a threat when they themselves cannot kill to eat yet they can just as easily buy meat at a grocery store when someone else kills it and cuts it up. Hand them a hammer and tell them to kill a cow for steaks and they get weak knees. but god how they will ***** when they don't get to eat steak for dinner! I agree here, to a point. I think the majority of people would do what you say. It's why I believe every single person should have to watch in person, beginning to end, how one's meat goes through the slaughterhouse from the live animal to the carcass. I think we'd end up with either more vegetarians, better and more humane ways to slaughter for meat, or people more respectful and knowledgeable, and less wasteful of the food on the dinner table. Any of those would be good. However, I know personally, while I love and adore my cattle, goats, chickens and turkeys, and have no need to butcher and eat them, (yes, the cattle, goats, and turkeys and many of the chickens all have names) if push came to shove I could and would eat them to survive. I'd hate it, and it would hurt, but survival would be what counted. It is funny you bring this up. Having been on a ranch here and there I have learned that not all animals are the same. horses for example. Some are easy to deal with while others I had to smack upside the head with a rock or 2 X 4 to get them to behave. I have had pets that were suppose dot be for food but they turned out to be exceptionally smart like my rabbit Scooter. She did not act like a rabbit. She acted more like a dog. I have had pet rats that were extremely affectionate while others that were little more than snake food to me. I never ever kill an exceptional animal of any kind. There was a cow in Oregon I rode like a horse and she was so over the top tame and tractable while other cattle were just stupid slabs of meat on four hooves. Even my mom's Nubian goats once trained were really good animals to have around. They were hell on poison oak. Even Cats are an animal I take on an individual basis. Some I like. Some I like to use as target practice. I think the saddest thing is how people treat snakes. I have come across rattle snakes in the wild but tome they serve a purpose and as long as I stay out of its way it leaves me alone then we are fine. Most people kill them on sight just becasue it was a snake. Humans are just sick demented creatures for the most part. Heck, I have seen how smart turkeys are first hand just like geese. Animals are smarter than people give them credit for! Still, life is born of decay and death for as sad as that may seem. We even kill plants to eat. Something must die for us to live. Isn't the paradox of life just a hoot to behold? |
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Cowboy wrote: We don't assume. I absolutely know without a doubt who our father is and the he exists just as you and I. I absolutely know without a doubt that Jesus Christ is the only begotten child of our father, is the path to our father, and is our saviour. No assumptions, I absolutely know for a fact without doubt. So in other words, you don't need to have faith because you have absolute divine knowledge of truth. Is that what you're telling us? We all have that divine knowledge. It just boils down to if one is willing to accept it. No we don't Cowboy. I do not believe in a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices. Period. There are many people do not believe in Hebrew folklore and superstitions. Even the Jews themselves did not accept the idea that Jesus was "The Christ". Your claim that everyone has this divine knowledge is clearly false. I sincerely believe that Jesus was indeed a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva. Everything fits that scenario perfectly. I mean if we're going to appeal to logic as you did with EquusDancer, then I know that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist because that's where the true evidence points. I didn't make that up just to screw with the heads of Christians. It's my sincere belief. If I knew that it was false, I wouldn't believe it. So your claim that everyone supposedly innately knows what you'd like to believe is a false claim that has no merit at all. Based on evidence alone, I'd say that it far more clear to me that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist. Obviously you can't see that vantage point because you refuse to become educated in world religions and world history. You have already proclaimed that you only accept the Hebrew folklore, so you aren't even aware of the other pictures that exist. You've shut yourself in the limited box of the ancient Hebrews. So it might make sense for you to believe in those fables and rumors, because that's all you've ever been exposed to. You refuse to even hear about other views. |
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People have become too soft. It is easy for people to take the easy way out and not want to kill someone who is a threat when they themselves cannot kill to eat yet they can just as easily buy meat at a grocery store when someone else kills it and cuts it up. Hand them a hammer and tell them to kill a cow for steaks and they get weak knees. but god how they will ***** when they don't get to eat steak for dinner! I agree here, to a point. I think the majority of people would do what you say. It's why I believe every single person should have to watch in person, beginning to end, how one's meat goes through the slaughterhouse from the live animal to the carcass. I think we'd end up with either more vegetarians, better and more humane ways to slaughter for meat, or people more respectful and knowledgeable, and less wasteful of the food on the dinner table. Any of those would be good. However, I know personally, while I love and adore my cattle, goats, chickens and turkeys, and have no need to butcher and eat them, (yes, the cattle, goats, and turkeys and many of the chickens all have names) if push came to shove I could and would eat them to survive. I'd hate it, and it would hurt, but survival would be what counted. It is funny you bring this up. Having been on a ranch here and there I have learned that not all animals are the same. horses for example. Some are easy to deal with while others I had to smack upside the head with a rock or 2 X 4 to get them to behave. I have had pets that were suppose dot be for food but they turned out to be exceptionally smart like my rabbit Scooter. She did not act like a rabbit. She acted more like a dog. I have had pet rats that were extremely affectionate while others that were little more than snake food to me. I never ever kill an exceptional animal of any kind. There was a cow in Oregon I rode like a horse and she was so over the top tame and tractable while other cattle were just stupid slabs of meat on four hooves. Even my mom's Nubian goats once trained were really good animals to have around. They were hell on poison oak. Even Cats are an animal I take on an individual basis. Some I like. Some I like to use as target practice. I think the saddest thing is how people treat snakes. I have come across rattle snakes in the wild but tome they serve a purpose and as long as I stay out of its way it leaves me alone then we are fine. Most people kill them on sight just becasue it was a snake. Humans are just sick demented creatures for the most part. Heck, I have seen how smart turkeys are first hand just like geese. Animals are smarter than people give them credit for! Still, life is born of decay and death for as sad as that may seem. We even kill plants to eat. Something must die for us to live. Isn't the paradox of life just a hoot to behold? It is very disgusting when people kill animals just because, take the snakes for instance. They won't "hunt" you down. All they are doing is protecting their home, same anyone would do. Just walk away and they won't bother one. No need to kill it just because. |
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Cowboy wrote: We don't assume. I absolutely know without a doubt who our father is and the he exists just as you and I. I absolutely know without a doubt that Jesus Christ is the only begotten child of our father, is the path to our father, and is our saviour. No assumptions, I absolutely know for a fact without doubt. So in other words, you don't need to have faith because you have absolute divine knowledge of truth. Is that what you're telling us? We all have that divine knowledge. It just boils down to if one is willing to accept it. No we don't Cowboy. I do not believe in a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices. Period. There are many people do not believe in Hebrew folklore and superstitions. Even the Jews themselves did not accept the idea that Jesus was "The Christ". Your claim that everyone has this divine knowledge is clearly false. I sincerely believe that Jesus was indeed a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva. Everything fits that scenario perfectly. I mean if we're going to appeal to logic as you did with EquusDancer, then I know that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist because that's where the true evidence points. I didn't make that up just to screw with the heads of Christians. It's my sincere belief. If I knew that it was false, I wouldn't believe it. So your claim that everyone supposedly innately knows what you'd like to believe is a false claim that has no merit at all. Based on evidence alone, I'd say that it far more clear to me that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist. Obviously you can't see that vantage point because you refuse to become educated in world religions and world history. You have already proclaimed that you only accept the Hebrew folklore, so you aren't even aware of the other pictures that exist. You've shut yourself in the limited box of the ancient Hebrews. So it might make sense for you to believe in those fables and rumors, because that's all you've ever been exposed to. You refuse to even hear about other views. I do not believe in a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required.  |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. |
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This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. Very wise, young one. :) |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. That same shoe fits YOU my dear...smh...seems some of you talk just so you can be corrected... but that's ok, I'm here for you. |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. That same shoe fits YOU my dear...smh...seems some of you talk just so you can be corrected... but that's ok, I'm here for you. Not really, my mind is fully open now, more so then it ever was. If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you, but you can't. |
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"Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see." Isa_42:18, Abra wrote: I don't believe in a hateful God Cerise... CeriseRose says: Neither do I, Abra... |
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Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Sun 12/26/10 06:21 PM
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. That same shoe fits YOU my dear...smh...seems some of you talk just so you can be corrected... but that's ok, I'm here for you. Not really, my mind is fully open now, more so then it ever was. If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you, but you can't. Proof that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him/her drink... Jesus said: "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." John_7:38, John 4:14 14,"... whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." 
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. That same shoe fits YOU my dear...smh...seems some of you talk just so you can be corrected... but that's ok, I'm here for you. Not really, my mind is fully open now, more so then it ever was. If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you, but you can't. This directly contradicts your earlier statement... Not so wise young friend... |
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As I stated earlier, why bother trying to convert people if God hates them? Why would jesus sacrifice his own life if he hates them? Does it not say That there is no greater friendship than a man lay down his life for his friends? Jesus did that. When he died on the cross. So let's see here, if you don't believe the bible, then you can't believe that God is love...and therefor did NOT die for anyone's sin. So then he really must hate us! Abra states that he TRUST's God! Why trust someone who hate's you? Why don't you start with the adherents of Judaism? They're already half way there, maybe you could convince them of all this Jesus/New Testament stuff? No? Yes? Get back to us and let us know how that's workin' fer ya and why... -Kerry O. |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. That same shoe fits YOU my dear...smh...seems some of you talk just so you can be corrected... but that's ok, I'm here for you. Not really, my mind is fully open now, more so then it ever was. If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you, but you can't. This directly contradicts your earlier statement... Not so wise young friend... No it doesn't, I'd be open to someone correcting me if they could prove it, but no one can. Until someone could, my beliefs remain the same, it simply does not make sense. |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. That same shoe fits YOU my dear...smh...seems some of you talk just so you can be corrected... but that's ok, I'm here for you. Not really, my mind is fully open now, more so then it ever was. If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you, but you can't. This directly contradicts your earlier statement... Not so wise young friend... No it doesn't, I'd be open to someone correcting me if they could prove it, but no one can. Until someone could, my beliefs remain the same, it simply does not make sense. Your preconceived notion is that noone can convince you, hence the contradiction. |
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. That same shoe fits YOU my dear...smh...seems some of you talk just so you can be corrected... but that's ok, I'm here for you. Not really, my mind is fully open now, more so then it ever was. If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you, but you can't. This directly contradicts your earlier statement... Not so wise young friend... No it doesn't, I'd be open to someone correcting me if they could prove it, but no one can. Until someone could, my beliefs remain the same, it simply does not make sense. Your preconceived notion is that noone can convince you, hence the contradiction. That's because it doesn't make sense. If someone could prove to me it DID, I'd listen to them. So there's no contradiction. I see clearly now, more clearly then I ever had, and I can't go back. |
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If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you That's very open minded of you. , Hmmm...a comma...what will follow? but you can't. I've never seen a mind slam shut that fast before. 
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 12/26/10 08:17 PM
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If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you That's very open minded of you. , Hmmm...a comma...what will follow? but you can't. I've never seen a mind slam shut that fast before. My mind is NOT closed! If you could convince me I'd believe you, but I don't see it happening, cause it simply makes no sense. My mind has been opened to see that quite clearly. |
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Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Sun 12/26/10 08:36 PM
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Cowboy wrote: Yes we have all the knowledge right there before you. And this right here is why people do not have that knowledge, the do not believe, they do not wish for it to be true. Just because one doesn't believe and or just wishes for it not to be true doesn't make it false. It's still a fact weather one wishes to accept it and or believe it. To believe in the ancient Hebrew scriptures is indeed a matter of faith. No differently from believing in Zeus. I have shown why the scriptures that you support as the so-called "Word of God" cannot possibly be the word of any supposedly all-wise God because they simply don't represent infinite wisdom. In fact, they don't even represent mediocre wisdom. Therefore the proof is in. They can't be the thoughts, desires, and commandments of any "all-wise" God because they simply aren't wise fables. So there's no reason to even consider that they could potentially be true. They obviously can't be true. So we all have the knowledge that these fables are nonsense right before us. All we need to do is look at them with a truly sincere heart and open mind and we can see that they are necessarily false fables. That's all that's required. This. In order for one to see the real truth, you have to let go of preconceived notions. For many though in this and other areas that is very difficult, so they tend to hold onto what they know instead of looking deeper into the fact that they may have been deceived or were wrong. Pride is a very powerful force in this way. That same shoe fits YOU my dear...smh...seems some of you talk just so you can be corrected... but that's ok, I'm here for you. Not really, my mind is fully open now, more so then it ever was. If you could convince me the Bible was God's word I'd believe you, but you can't. No it doesn't, I'd be open to someone correcting me if they could prove it, but no one can. Until someone could, my beliefs remain the same, it simply does not make sense. CeriseRose wrote: Don't believe me...believe ON HIM. The fork in the road is quite plain... Left or right? You simply choose... which offers a better promise... and He will take it from there... and don't be ashamed of your decision to trust Him... though you may not see what is ahead, HE does... On Christ the Solid Rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand... all other ground is sinking sand. Matthew 13:9- 9, Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. |
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