This has been your theme now for over a week. I've already adressed this issue a few times before and you still continue with this obvious fallacy. I've shown you 3 times that this is NOT true. (that God hates non-believers or "heathens".)

With overwhelming evidence to the contrary, any sane person has no choice but to acknowledge that your quoted words above are nothing but lies and hatred...

If what you say is true, Peter, then it's not important to believe in the Bible at all.

Convince the Christians of that and all will be well.

I already believe that this is true of any genuine truly divine God.

If what you say is true, Peter, then it's not important to believe in the Bible at all.

Convince the Christians of that and all will be well.

I already believe that this is true of any genuine truly divine God.

Tell you what....

I'll convince the Christians of that if, and only if, you can convince me that what you say is true...

ShiningArmour wrote:

You believe in the eastern mystic view of God? Then I'm going to guess that you view God as "Everything" This computer is God and you are God and I am God.

In this view God is the universe.

This is fine.

But in other threads you support evolution...This is anti-God...Surely you don't think that God made the heavens and the earth through evolution! Do you?

You also state that the hebrew view is hating of unbelievers?

Then why bother trying to show them the right path to heaven? Why not just let them go their merry way and end up in hell? Clearly your view of "God" makes no sense.

You go on to say that Satan could have written it? Then Satan must be self hating and self destructive! It says that Satan ends up in the bottomless pit. What is this pit? A vacation spot? It also calls him a liar and a murderer among other things. If he wrote the book then he must either be very deeply depressed or insane.

Finally you state that you TRUST God. To do what exactly? I mean you don't seem to like the guy at all. You show that by what you type.

KLC wrote:

Ive yet to see anyone respond to the questions Abra has posed. Just avoidance strategy mudslinging. Its too bad because there must be answers. Nobody seems to want to bother to answer them.

No of course not. They know that I'm making perfectly valid and sensible points and they can't address them. That's why they turn to the tactics of slander.

ShiningArmour wrote:

Now you say that the bible must have come from an evil being? But you don't believe in satan...who is this evil being then? God? But you trust God to be righteous...Which by definition means to be right in the sight of God.
I'm sorry I just don't understand your logic on this one...as usual

And what's this about animosity? I don't have any ill feelings towards you abra I simply don't want you to sound like a fool. That's all.

Finally I'm not an eastern mystic. I'm not even eastern. So NO I don't understand it. You are right on that one!

Your comparing animals to people! People are different from animals. Any moron can see that!

Are we punishing the cow when we kill it to eat it? No. same thing with the bear.

Based on what is presented, I have no choice but to agree...but I was trying to be discreet in forming my opinion in text.

I am in total agreement with you here. If we have to keep them around, then they need to be put to use.



With regards to the mentally ill, we will have to agree to disagree here, Abra.

I personally don't believe that being mentally ill and causing someone harm or death is an excuse to stay alive.

At one point in our early history, everyone had to be responsible, even someone with mental illness. If you couldn't behave within the tribe, you were shunned or killed.

Science and psychology and psychiatry may have legitimate reasons for explaining why someone does what they do which is fine, but I don't believe it gives anyone the right to get away with things.

As I stated earlier, why bother trying to convert people if God hates them? Why would jesus sacrifice his own life if he hates them?

Does it not say That there is no greater friendship than a man lay down his life for his friends? Jesus did that. When he died on the cross.

So let's see here, if you don't believe the bible, then you can't believe that God is love...and therefor did NOT die for anyone's sin. So then he really must hate us!

Abra states that he TRUST's God! Why trust someone who hate's you?

There are 2 problems with your response.

1. You assume to know the "logic" of any other human...

2. You assume that I believe in hell...


"Evil" would be killing their horses just for fun.

ShiningArmour wrote:

Abra states that he TRUST's God! Why trust someone who hate's you?

Yep, you're right. I'm going with the average thought processes of the average amount of people I know. It's called a generalization. It's also why I was careful to not state "you" specifically in my response, Peter.

That said, life is one giant assumption. Judeo-Christian-Islamists assume there is a God, others assume there isn't. Everything anyone says is an assumption, so by you're comment on my assumptions, neither you nor I should be discussing this or any other topic of conversation on these forums, because after all, they're all assumptions. Some assume there is or should be a point to this existence, assuming this existence is even real, while others don't, or don't worry about the assumption of importance.

And let's go a bit further, no one should be on this website because we are all assuming we might find some one. But since it's all an assumption, and so that would mean we are all wrong and and wasting time and space, and dare I say breath, with all of this assuming going on.

We don't assume. I absolutely know without a doubt who our father is and the he exists just as you and I. I absolutely know without a doubt that Jesus Christ is the only begotten child of our father, is the path to our father, and is our saviour. No assumptions, I absolutely know for a fact without doubt.

But that is an assumption. You might claim to know, but it's still a personal assumption. I absolutely know that there is no God/dess, much less that anyone needed to die for "sins". But, in all honesty, that's still my assumption.

Back in the days of the "wild" west, keeping people incarcerated for life to protect the public was impractical.

However, today it's not impractical. Money and resources are truly not a problem. That's the delusion of a competitive capitalistic society. Of course, as long as we continue to live under that delusion we basically make it become our truth, unfortunately.

My own personal perspective on this would be to simply as the mentally ill person what they desire? Do they desire treatment for their mental illness, or to be incarcerated until such treatment may become available? Or do they prefer to die?

Let them choose.

Clearly we don't yet know how to treat all forms of mental illnesses, especially in terms of "curing" them. In fact, this may not even be possible in many cases. Who knows? We simply don't understand how the human mind works well enough to know.

In fact, we often spend vast amount of time having arguments on these forums that basically reduce to the very simple question, "Are we our brains? Or are we something else?"

The secular atheists take the view that we are our brains. Therefore if we are 'evil' or 'mentally ill', it can only be because our brains aren't wired correctly, or there is some other physical malfunction going on. All behavior can be reduced to physics.

If, on the other hand, we are something other than our brains (i.e. we are spirit), then this present a very complex situation, because we already know that the physics of a brain can indeed affect how a person thinks and behaves, so the problem in that case become two-fold.

How much of the behavior would be due to the physical brain? And how much of it would be due to the 'spirit' that is using that physical brain?

These are heavy questions. This is why all ideas of spirituality become extremely complex, whilst the secular atheistic view is more simple and straight-forward, although not without their own problems. Physics is everything in the secular atheistic view. If you're doing something wrong or having bad thoughts, it's because of the physics of your brain. You really have very little free will at all actually.

These are interesting topics and topics that biologists and scientists who study the brain wrestle with every day.

At what point should a malfunctioning brain be terminated?

And from a secular atheistic view, how can anyone be viewed as being responsible for anything at all? Whether they are stupid, or angry, or outright hostile, it can only be because their brain isn't working "properly" (where the very concept of "properly" is the subjective view of people who feel that their brains are working "properly")

These ideas are problematic for even secular atheists actually.

Cowboy wrote:

We don't assume. I absolutely know without a doubt who our father is and the he exists just as you and I. I absolutely know without a doubt that Jesus Christ is the only begotten child of our father, is the path to our father, and is our saviour. No assumptions, I absolutely know for a fact without doubt.

People have become too soft. It is easy for people to take the easy way out and not want to kill someone who is a threat when they themselves cannot kill to eat yet they can just as easily buy meat at a grocery store when someone else kills it and cuts it up. Hand them a hammer and tell them to kill a cow for steaks and they get weak knees. but god how they will ***** when they don't get to eat steak for dinner!