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| Topic: A question on killing | |
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You would be stuck in Mingleland forever.  Oh dear! Now I feel like the rabbit in Alice in Wonderland!  I don't want to miss my appointment!  Well, I try and spend as much time here as possible. I think it cuts down on the amount of penance I will have to do in purgatory.  |
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Edited by
heavenlyboy34
on
Sat 12/25/10 08:10 PM
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I want to play a thought game... Imagine you lived in the wild west days of America. Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. Now imagine that a family of vicious murderers moved onto your land and was a threat to you and your families safety and security. Imagine that they were rapists and murderers of men, women and children. They ignore your warnings that the land is yours and absolutely refuse to leave. Would you a) Move away, b) Risk your and your children's lives by letting them stay or c) Kill them or d) Try to drive them off with force? Or some other action? Actually, the "wild west" is more fiction than fact. "The West during this time (1830-1900)often is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life. Our research indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed. Private agencies provided the necessary basis for an orderly society in which property was protected and conflicts were resolved. These agencies often did not qualify as governments because they did not have a legal monopoly on "keeping order." They soon discovered that "warfare" was a costly way of resolving disputes and lower cost methods of settlement (arbitration, courts, etc.) resulted. In summary, this paper argues that a characterization of the American West as chaotic would appear to be incorrect." (Anderson and Hill, The Journal of Libertarian Studies) http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/not-so-wild-west.html |
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I want to play a thought game... Imagine you lived in the wild west days of America. Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. Now imagine that a family of vicious murderers moved onto your land and was a threat to you and your families safety and security. Imagine that they were rapists and murderers of men, women and children. They ignore your warnings that the land is yours and absolutely refuse to leave. Would you a) Move away, b) Risk your and your children's lives by letting them stay or c) Kill them or d) Try to drive them off with force? Or some other action? Actually, the "wild west" is more fiction than fact. "The West during this time (1830-1900)often is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life. Our research indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed. Private agencies provided the necessary basis for an orderly society in which property was protected and conflicts were resolved. These agencies often did not qualify as governments because they did not have a legal monopoly on "keeping order." They soon discovered that "warfare" was a costly way of resolving disputes and lower cost methods of settlement (arbitration, courts, etc.) resulted. In summary, this paper argues that a characterization of the American West as chaotic would appear to be incorrect." (Anderson and Hill, The Journal of Libertarian Studies) http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/not-so-wild-west.html I think he was just trying to draw a mental picture for us in order to pose the question. It really doesn't matter whether or not the specific term is factually correct in this instance. |
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well, one by one, they will die in their sleep, and from my 308. i have an incredibly violent past, and had certain things take place in my life where i had to deal with such things from time to time. they cheat, so you must keep the upper hand and instill abomitable fear and confusion in your opponent, as well as leave examples to what will happen to them inevitably. you must terrify the terrifying, or you will most certainly lose...........and die.
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Well, I try and spend as much time here as possible. I think it cuts down on the amount of penance I will have to do in purgatory. 
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Well, I try and spend as much time here as possible. I think it cuts down on the amount of penance I will have to do in purgatory.  |
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I want to play a thought game... Imagine you lived in the wild west days of America. Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. Now imagine that a family of vicious murderers moved onto your land and was a threat to you and your families safety and security. Imagine that they were rapists and murderers of men, women and children. They ignore your warnings that the land is yours and absolutely refuse to leave. Would you a) Move away, b) Risk your and your children's lives by letting them stay or c) Kill them or d) Try to drive them off with force? Or some other action? Actually, the "wild west" is more fiction than fact. "The West during this time (1830-1900)often is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life. Our research indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed. Private agencies provided the necessary basis for an orderly society in which property was protected and conflicts were resolved. These agencies often did not qualify as governments because they did not have a legal monopoly on "keeping order." They soon discovered that "warfare" was a costly way of resolving disputes and lower cost methods of settlement (arbitration, courts, etc.) resulted. In summary, this paper argues that a characterization of the American West as chaotic would appear to be incorrect." (Anderson and Hill, The Journal of Libertarian Studies) http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/not-so-wild-west.html too bad sociopaths, serial killers (yes, they existed) and prominant business men with wealth to bury men and make them go missing by the dozens, didn't read this..... modern article. the real truth is that there were thousands of square miles that were never covered by lawmen, or laws, or anything else for that matter, and even then they were "impartial" to whoever had power and money, just like today, but less civilized. they also tended to avoid the bad areas, just like cops avoid Basin St projects in New Orleans today...... they cleaned up the west on paper in general, but they can't clean up personal memoirs, and the dirty side of the law. much that we thought that was true in the fifties, has been found incorrect, and much distorted. there were things that happened that we could never imagine in certain cruelties i assure you. |
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Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Sat 12/25/10 09:17 PM
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I don't believe people have an appointed time to die. The future is always in motion and is constantly changing based on the decisions we make now. Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly, if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in "fate" or pre-determined outcomes. I've never been good at keeping appointments anyway. So what would happen if I missed my appointment? Would I be able to call in and make another one? Or would I be stuck here forever? You guys have a one track mind...as I said before...you cannot fathom...Almighty God...[Ruth said: "Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in 'fate' or pre-determined outcomes." ]... "Set in motion"= pre-arranged, fixed, programmed,preordained,pre-determined, fated, etc. It won't matter what you thought...You absolutely have no choice in the matter...Who do you think set life in motion?...smh...surprise me... 
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You guys have a one track mind...as I said before...you cannot fathom...Almighty God...[Ruth said: "Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in 'fate' or pre-determined outcomes." ]... "Set in motion"= pre-arranged, fixed, programmed,preordained,pre-determined, fated, etc. It won't matter what you thought...You absolutely have no choice in the matter...Who do you think set life in motion?...smh...surprise me... No...I meant "set in motion" as in: I put my foot on the gas pedal and accelerate to 100 mph. Suddenly, a dog darts out in front of me, but it's too late to stop. No matter how much I may want to avoid hitting the dog, it's too late and I cannot change the course of this event. |
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Actually, I do believe God created us and the world in which we live. I also believe that He set up the natural law by which we live. However, I don't believe He has orchestrated every move since then. I believe that it is up to us, as individuals, to figure out why we are here and what we will do with our time here in these bodies.
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well, one by one, they will die in their sleep, and from my 308. i have an incredibly violent past, and had certain things take place in my life where i had to deal with such things from time to time. they cheat, so you must keep the upper hand and instill abomitable fear and confusion in your opponent, as well as leave examples to what will happen to them inevitably. you must terrify the terrifying, or you will most certainly lose...........and die.  You my friend are one person I think I can have at my back with no worries! Knowing you can and would take the shot is relieving becasue it is better to face a situation like this with friends at your side rather than a pack of pu@@y azzes sissies with no spine! They are the ones who get people killed just as easily as idiots who provoke situations! I would like to say to those who choose to take them down rather than put our own at risk tolerating a disease like that to live among us...  America!!! FUQUE YEAH! |
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Edited by
heavenlyboy34
on
Sat 12/25/10 09:31 PM
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I want to play a thought game... Imagine you lived in the wild west days of America. Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. Now imagine that a family of vicious murderers moved onto your land and was a threat to you and your families safety and security. Imagine that they were rapists and murderers of men, women and children. They ignore your warnings that the land is yours and absolutely refuse to leave. Would you a) Move away, b) Risk your and your children's lives by letting them stay or c) Kill them or d) Try to drive them off with force? Or some other action? Actually, the "wild west" is more fiction than fact. "The West during this time (1830-1900)often is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life. Our research indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed. Private agencies provided the necessary basis for an orderly society in which property was protected and conflicts were resolved. These agencies often did not qualify as governments because they did not have a legal monopoly on "keeping order." They soon discovered that "warfare" was a costly way of resolving disputes and lower cost methods of settlement (arbitration, courts, etc.) resulted. In summary, this paper argues that a characterization of the American West as chaotic would appear to be incorrect." (Anderson and Hill, The Journal of Libertarian Studies) http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/not-so-wild-west.html too bad sociopaths, serial killers (yes, they existed) and prominant business men with wealth to bury men and make them go missing by the dozens, didn't read this..... modern article. the real truth is that there were thousands of square miles that were never covered by lawmen, or laws, or anything else for that matter, and even then they were "impartial" to whoever had power and money, just like today, but less civilized. they also tended to avoid the bad areas, just like cops avoid Basin St projects in New Orleans today...... they cleaned up the west on paper in general, but they can't clean up personal memoirs, and the dirty side of the law. much that we thought that was true in the fifties, has been found incorrect, and much distorted. there were things that happened that we could never imagine in certain cruelties i assure you. It's true that there were almost no formal "lawmen" in that time. This is in fact explained in great detail if you bother to read the article. This absence of formal law enforcement, however, did not prevent order or cause any significant amount of chaos. The paper cites numerous sources explaining how systems of property rights, common law, and other civilizing institutions developed spontaneously, without the presence of any formal government. The author notes, for example, "The legend of the "wild, wild West" lives on despite Robert Dykstra's finding that five of the major cattle towns (Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell) for the years from 1870 to 1885, only 45 homicides were reported-an average of 1.5 per cattle-trading season. In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, nobody was killed in 1869 or 1870. In fact, nobody was killed until the advent of officers of the law, employed to prevent killings. Only two towns, Ellsworth in 1873 and Dodge City in 1876, ever had five killings in any one year." Reading comprehension is your friend.
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Not exactly accurate either.
There is an agenda being propagated in the information. |
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Homicide, Race, and Justice in the American West, 1880-1920
Clare V. McKanna 206 pp. / 6.0 x 9.0 / 1997 Cloth (978-0-8165-1708-4) [s] Related Interest - Western History In a chilling scene in the film Unforgiven, Clint Eastwood as the gunman stands over a wounded Gene Hackman, the sheriff, aiming a rifle at his head. "I don't deserve this, to die like this," says Hackman. Eastwood replies, "Deserve's got nothing to do with it," ***** his rifle, and fires point blank at his helpless victim. This scenario dramatically brings home to the viewer what historians have long debated and hundreds of other films and books suggest: the turn-of-the-century West was a violent time and place. Ranchers, miners, deputy sheriffs, teenagers and old men, occasionally even housewives and mothers found themselves at the business end of a shotgun or a .38 revolver. Yet, since western historians tend to portray violence as essentially episodic--frontier gunfights, range wars, vigilante movements, and the like--solid data has been hard to come by. As a beginning point for actually measuring lethal violence and assessing the administration of justice, here at last is a detailed and well-documented study of homicide in the American West. Comparing data from representative areas--Douglas County, Nebraska; Las Animas County, Colorado; and Gila County, Arizona--this book reveals a level of violence far greater than many historians have believed, even surpassing eastern cities like New York and Boston. Clashing cultures and transient populations, a boomtown mentality, easy availability of alcohol and firearms: these and many other factors come under scrutiny as catalysts in the violence that permeated the region. By comparing homicide data, including coroner's inquests, indictments, plea bargains, and sentences across both racial and regional lines, the book also offers persuasive evidence that criminal justice systems of the Old West were weighted heavily in favor of defendants who were white and against those who were African American, Native American, or Mexican. Packed with information, this is a book for students and scholars of western history, social history, criminology, and justice studies. Western history buffs will be captivated by colorful anecdotes about the real West, where guns could and did blaze over anything from love trysts to vendettas to too much foam on the beer. From whatever perspective, all readers are sure to find here a well-constructed framework for understanding the West as it was and for interpreting the region as it moves into the future. http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/BOOKS/bid1019.htm |
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I don't believe people have an appointed time to die. The future is always in motion and is constantly changing based on the decisions we make now. Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly, if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in "fate" or pre-determined outcomes. I've never been good at keeping appointments anyway. So what would happen if I missed my appointment? Would I be able to call in and make another one? Or would I be stuck here forever? You guys have a one track mind...as I said before...you cannot fathom...Almighty God...[Ruth said: "Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in 'fate' or pre-determined outcomes." ]... "Set in motion"= pre-arranged, fixed, programmed,preordained,pre-determined, fated, etc. It won't matter what you thought...You absolutely have no choice in the matter...Who do you think set life in motion?...smh...surprise me... If we have no choice then it defeats the whole notion of free will doesn't it? Can't be us freely choosing if the outcome is fixed. |
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I want to play a thought game... Imagine you lived in the wild west days of America. Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. Now imagine that a family of vicious murderers moved onto your land and was a threat to you and your families safety and security. Imagine that they were rapists and murderers of men, women and children. They ignore your warnings that the land is yours and absolutely refuse to leave. Would you a) Move away, b) Risk your and your children's lives by letting them stay or c) Kill them or d) Try to drive them off with force? Or some other action? Actually, the "wild west" is more fiction than fact. "The West during this time (1830-1900)often is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life. Our research indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed. Private agencies provided the necessary basis for an orderly society in which property was protected and conflicts were resolved. These agencies often did not qualify as governments because they did not have a legal monopoly on "keeping order." They soon discovered that "warfare" was a costly way of resolving disputes and lower cost methods of settlement (arbitration, courts, etc.) resulted. In summary, this paper argues that a characterization of the American West as chaotic would appear to be incorrect." (Anderson and Hill, The Journal of Libertarian Studies) http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/not-so-wild-west.html I think he was just trying to draw a mental picture for us in order to pose the question. It really doesn't matter whether or not the specific term is factually correct in this instance. Ruth, I think there is a deeper issue here than whether or not a person used a historically accurate concept of an era/culture as a means of framing an idea. Lets take a look at this sentence: Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. The premise here is that laws, cities, police, and/or military are necessary for any semblance of order or justice - examining our fallacious concept of the wild west is a means of discovering that this often-accepted premise is simply wrong. |
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I want to play a thought game... Imagine you lived in the wild west days of America. Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. Now imagine that a family of vicious murderers moved onto your land and was a threat to you and your families safety and security. Imagine that they were rapists and murderers of men, women and children. They ignore your warnings that the land is yours and absolutely refuse to leave. Would you a) Move away, b) Risk your and your children's lives by letting them stay or c) Kill them or d) Try to drive them off with force? Or some other action? Actually, the "wild west" is more fiction than fact. "The West during this time (1830-1900)often is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life. Our research indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed. Private agencies provided the necessary basis for an orderly society in which property was protected and conflicts were resolved. These agencies often did not qualify as governments because they did not have a legal monopoly on "keeping order." They soon discovered that "warfare" was a costly way of resolving disputes and lower cost methods of settlement (arbitration, courts, etc.) resulted. In summary, this paper argues that a characterization of the American West as chaotic would appear to be incorrect." (Anderson and Hill, The Journal of Libertarian Studies) http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep/not-so-wild-west.html I think he was just trying to draw a mental picture for us in order to pose the question. It really doesn't matter whether or not the specific term is factually correct in this instance. Ruth, I think there is a deeper issue here than whether or not a person used a historically accurate concept of an era/culture as a means of framing an idea. Lets take a look at this sentence: Every man is a law unto himself, because there are no laws, cities, police or military. The premise here is that laws, cities, police, and/or military are necessary for any semblance of order or justice - examining our fallacious concept of the wild west is a means of discovering that this often-accepted premise is simply wrong. I think the "premise" is that there is noone to help or to turn to, requiring oneself to act on their own behalf for justice and order. Personally, I'd be taking apendages and only kill them if absolutely needed. Death is an easy out... |
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The premise here is that laws, cities, police, and/or military are necessary for any semblance of order or justice - examining our fallacious concept of the wild west is a means of discovering that this often-accepted premise is simply wrong. I think the "premise" is that there is noone to help or to turn to, requiring oneself to act on their own behalf for justice and order. Personally, I'd be taking apendages and only kill them if absolutely needed. Death is an easy out... I agree with your characterization of the situation in which Spider wanted to pose the question "What would you do?" My point is simply that saying "...because there are no [list items]...." seems to me to be the same as saying "These listed items are the only means of preventing..." Now, if we define laws as 'any convention, protocol, etc' and police as 'any agency other than yourself which acts to enforce those conventions, protocols, etc', then we might be on to something - but we usually think of both laws and police as being more structured than this. |
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I don't believe people have an appointed time to die. The future is always in motion and is constantly changing based on the decisions we make now. Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly, if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in "fate" or pre-determined outcomes. I've never been good at keeping appointments anyway. So what would happen if I missed my appointment? Would I be able to call in and make another one? Or would I be stuck here forever? You guys have a one track mind...as I said before...you cannot fathom...Almighty God...[Ruth said: "Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in 'fate' or pre-determined outcomes." ]... "Set in motion"= pre-arranged, fixed, programmed,preordained,pre-determined, fated, etc. It won't matter what you thought...You absolutely have no choice in the matter...Who do you think set life in motion?...smh...surprise me... If we have no choice then it defeats the whole notion of free will doesn't it? Can't be us freely choosing if the outcome is fixed. ...[Ruth said: "Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in 'fate' or pre-determined outcomes." ]... [CeriseRose says: (I saw an oxymoron in this statement)] "Set in motion"= pre-arranged, fixed, programmed,preordained,pre-determined, fated, etc. Some EVENTS are completely out of your hands. Death is one of them. The choosing of whether to surrender your will IS yours Every man's days are numbered. If YOU decided to commit suicide, and I pray not, Almighty God would know it before. He could intercede or allow. 
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I don't believe people have an appointed time to die. The future is always in motion and is constantly changing based on the decisions we make now. Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly, if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in "fate" or pre-determined outcomes. I've never been good at keeping appointments anyway. So what would happen if I missed my appointment? Would I be able to call in and make another one? Or would I be stuck here forever? You guys have a one track mind...as I said before...you cannot fathom...Almighty God...[Ruth said: "Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in 'fate' or pre-determined outcomes." ]... "Set in motion"= pre-arranged, fixed, programmed,preordained,pre-determined, fated, etc. It won't matter what you thought...You absolutely have no choice in the matter...Who do you think set life in motion?...smh...surprise me... If we have no choice then it defeats the whole notion of free will doesn't it? Can't be us freely choosing if the outcome is fixed. ...[Ruth said: "Yes, events can be set in motion that are nearly if not completely, unchangeable at some point. But, I don't believe in 'fate' or pre-determined outcomes." ]... [CeriseRose says: (I saw an oxymoron in this statement)] "Set in motion"= pre-arranged, fixed, programmed,preordained,pre-determined, fated, etc. Some EVENTS are completely out of your hands. Death is one of them. The choosing of whether to surrender your will IS yours Every man's days are numbered. If YOU decided to commit suicide, and I pray not, Almighty God would know it before. He could intercede or allow.
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