That's a good question. I'll be sure to ask God why he didn't make everyone sinless, perfect and humble like you.



Who said that anyone is created to be "bad"? Did you become a Calvinist overnight?



Humans have a body, a soul (personality and intellect) and a spirit (life force and connection to God). Your body and your soul are very closely tied together. If your genetics didn't give you a "normal" brain, then you might be mentally retarded or autistic or highly intelligent. Your brain works like a lens, it filters or alters how your soul is expressed. Our job as humans is to overcome the limitations placed upon us by genetics and be the best humans we can be.







It's like an SNL skit. "James the Biblical Scholar who is constantly surprised by Sunday school lessons".

How can you like one person more than another? God isn't a computer, giving everyone a 1 or a 0. God isn't Santa Claus with a "naughty" and "nice" list. God is a person, who has relationships with people. Someone who works to please God will probably find that God loves him more.



Yes, because you made up a scripture "Abracadabra 8:17 God loves everyone equally" and the Bible doesn't support YOUR scripture, then the Bible is a huge contradiction.



Here is the hierarchy in heaven. God > Everyone else. Each person has his or her own relationship with God.



If you aren't trying to please God, why should he shower you with favor?



People are people, even in heaven. If soandso isn't trying as hard as other people to please God, then soandso's relationship with God isn't going to be as close.

I'm never surprised by Sunday school lessons. I'm totally aware that their entire approach is to pretend that the Bible makes sense whilst always sweeping contractions and absurdities under the carpet. When they recognize that something doesn't makes sense, they simply say things like, "God works in mysterious ways", or "You need to have faith that God has a reasonable answer for that because clearly we can't think of any either".

Sunday school is nothing more than brainwashing sessions to try to convince people that the Bible can make sense if you're willing to ignore all the contradictions and just sweep them under carpet and pretend they don't exist.



Well, the Christians are quite good at fooling everyone then because they teach that God loves everyone.



You seem to be reducing God to being nothing more than an all-powerful human complete with all the same emotional baggage and egotism as an Earthly King. In fact, that is indeed the picture that the biblical stories paint of their human-like God.

Besides who said anything about showing anyone with favor?

If this God promises to offer forgiveness and then reneges on his promise then he's an untrustworthy God who's WORD cannot be trusted.

He's either offering forgiveness or he isn't. Make up your mind.

Just yet another droplet of contradiction in the ocean of biblical contradictions.

Can this God be trusted to keep his WORD or not?

Are you going to do like the Sunday School teachers and just keep sweeping all these contradictions under the carpet? You're not going to have any floor space left for pews with that huge lump in the middle of the floor.

God didn't renege on anything. God offers forgiveness to anyone and everyone whom wishes to seek it. Doesn't matter if you're tall, short, black, white, obesse, skinny, brown hair, blonde hair, male, female, ect ect. God offers forgiveness of any sin any time if one truly seeks forgiveness and doesn't just say the words in vein trying to please God.

The problem is that I am not sure that all of my flesh is in need of forgiveness from a nonexistent entity.

First off to live my life believing that I am all screwed up just because I was born human is a terrible way to live.

Second of all there is noone who can excuse the bad that I do. I have to pay for it all by myself. No god can help me there and I wouldn't want to believe that I can be forgiven for the bad that I do that easily.

So basically the religious ideal of forgiveness is very unhealthy for us humans.

Truly.

It's just a cop-out for people who aren't willing to take responsibility for their own actions. They have someone else who will pay for their sins, and then they get to go to heaven to boot.

It's the ultimate dream for an irresponsible person.

I don't need to apologize for being born human.

I suggest that you go back and read the passage that I quoted and interpret it for me.

You did exactly what I said Christians do: instead of answering my questions head-on, you side stepped.

Do you mean "Mary" instead of "Marry"?

You either didn't understand my question or you chose not to address it. I didn't ASK if Mary were acquiescent to giving birth to the "son" of god, but about DNA.

Why did god even need a human vessel? Why not deliver his only "begotten" son fully grown on earth? Why let Jesus know he was the "son" of god?

I could have a lot more respect for a son of god who didn't know his destiny! Jesus had a bad weekend for the "sins" of humans, when went to heaven. Hey, I could do that!

I also would step up to the plate for having a child by god! Of course she didn't reject the idea.

IF Jesus existed, a much more reasonable scenario was that Mary was impregnated by a man other than Joseph, her betrothed; since this was an offense that called for stoning, she claimed she was impregnated by god.

I can't blame her.

First, WHERE did I say that people born with handicaps or health problems are lesser humans? Don't put words in my mouth or read out of context. You are at a lack of words or explanation, so you twist what I say.

You live in a dream world. While being born with a deformity doesn't make a person less than human, only an idiot would shrug off such issues as being mere "differences." These problems are not the difference between red hair and black hair, but differences that make people suffer.

And those people suffer much more than you or I suffer. The problems that I have had to overcome in life can't even begin to compare with someone who has a physical or mental handicap. They were not born like me; however, I am beginning to see that you were either born with the inability to understand what I am saying or you wallow in your faith so much that you refuse to understand what I am saying.

I am not talking in parables, ya know.



Of course, god is a "gentleman." You keep anthropomorphizing your god while "he" is supposed to be sexless, a spirit, eh?

But as for the gentlemanly aspects of your god:

1. He wiped out babies in a flood.

2. He said nothing when Lot offered his daughters to the crowd in Sodom.

3. He impregnated another man's wife.

4. After Pharaoh let the Hebrews go, god hardened the pharaoh's heart so that he sent his soldiers after the Hebrews.

5. He mentally tortured Abraham by telling him to sacrifice his son then said, "Oh, I was kidding!"

A real gentleman, that one.

Oh, and as for giving humans the "right" to choose, I have two alternatives: believe in Jesus or go to hell. Well, I "choose" not to believe in a mythic character and I "choose" not to go to hell.

That's that.

The biblical picture of God is nonsense. Period.

To suggest that people who recognize this fact are not interested in spiritual matters is also nonsense, and in fact comes from that very same nonsensical collection of stories.

I've proven it beyond any shadow of a doubt so many times over and over again, but clearly you are blind to these truths.

Both the Egyptians and the Canaanites are depicted in the Bible as "worshiping Gods".

Well DUH?

If they were both worship GOD, then they could hardly be turning against GOD KNOWINGLY, on the contrary, they were clearly trying to worship and serve GOD. If they were confused about WHO God is, then who's fault could that possibly be?

It's could ONLY be God's fault for not making his true presence and form known to those people.

The ONLY WAY the Biblical stories could have possibly been true is if both the Egyptians and the Canaanites did NOT worship any Gods. Moreover, they couldn't even have been atheists either, because to not believe in a God is not the same as refusing to obey a God.

The ONLY WAY that the Egyptians and Canaanites could have been rejecting the God of the Bible would have been if they believed in the God of the Bible, and knowingly refused to obey him.

That's the ONLY WAY that they could have been rejecting the biblical God. But that's not how the stories are written. So the stories are false.

All they can possibly represent are the writings of mortal men who were trying to make out like the religions of other cultures were false and that only their religion represents the "one true God".

But they shot themselves in the foot when they acknowledged that these other cultures were actually worshiping Gods. That's proof positive that these other cultures were indeed trying to worship God in their own way.

Therefore you can know with absolute positive certainty that the biblical fables are nothing more than the ramblings of an ancient Hebrew society that was trying to make out like there religious beliefs trumped all other religious beliefs.

That's all the biblical fables can be. If they contain any spiritual truths at all within those stories, that's just purely coincidental. But the stories over all, cannot possibly be the verbatim word of any "god" because they clearly do not support the themes and accusations being made. The Egyptians and Canaanites were clearly NOT rejecting "God", both of those societies were worshiping "God" in their own way, and therefore cannot be said to have been rejecting "God".

So the bible is clearly nothing more than the false accusations of one society being made against other societies with whom they personally disagreed with.

They EXPOSED their mortal agendas via their own stories.

I suggest you read the whole chapter (at least) and interpret it for me.

It would be easier to reply to you, if you only replied to one post or at least one person per post.

Replies to your Shotgun argumentation.

1) This is a huge topic to get into...Basically, it's like this. God wanted to bring Jesus into the world, so that people would follow him to salvation. The world in Noah's time was irredeemably corrupt, down to one good man in the world. If Jesus had been born into that world, he wouldn't have found followers worthy of him and nobody would have wanted to hear his teachings. So God had to nearly wipe out humanity in order to save humanity. Killing those children while they were morally neutral was a mercy to them when compared to them living a sinful life with no hope of salvation.

2) He says nothing when you sin either, that doesn't mean he approves.

3) Who was that? Mary? A woman who willingly served God? God chose her, because he knew that she would willingly carry the child and he knew that her FIANCE would make a good father.

4) God didn't directly (through actions) harden Pharaoh's heart. Pharaoh's heart was hardened through God's actions through Moses. A lowly slave dared to stand up before the man-god and his pride couldn't abide the audacity of it all.

5) Abraham had been told that his son would make a mighty nation. Issac hadn't had any children yet, so Abraham believed that his son would be resurrected. Abraham's first concern was serving God.

You have one choice "Serve Jesus" or "Not". Two options, only one choice. If you choose to not serve Jesus, then you don't have to. I don't believe that eternal life is granted to those to refuse to serve Jesus.

Which of course never happened. Even a lot of less militant Christians say the Great Flood is just allegorical because the evidence against its having actually happened as the bible states is overwhelming. Oh, its interlocking premises do have some degree of inventive elegance, but in the final analysis, they are just 'begging the question' and don't, if you'll pardon the pun, hold any water.

For instance, children have been born 'morally neutral' for a millenia, and no harm can be demonstrated. I think it's rather more disturbing that people believe in such a murderous God who has to commit mass murder in a fable so his most zealous believers can cast it as a demonstration on how 'merciful' he is.

Fail.

-Kerry O.

Is there anyone (except for you) who believes that?



Every time you point out a "contradiction" or "absurdity", it's refuted. You seem to think that these things are objective, they aren't. They are decided by individuals, who weight the arguments on both sides and determine which side they believe.







I'm not sure if you are committing a strawman fallacy here or your reading comprehension is that bad. I didn't say that God doesn't love everyone. God loves everyone equally, but cannot express that love equally. If someone lives a sinful life, God cannot bless that person or have the close relationship with the person that God desires.



Poor James...

Listen to me for a minute. You are actually going to have to read this, if you want the answer. God forgives all sins. God's relationship with each person is based on how much each individual seeks to please him. If someone hasn't tried very hard, then he isn't going to have a close relationship with God. This isn't God's fault, it's the individual's choice to not draw close to God.

There is no question of forgiveness. There is no question of God's love. The question is how hard each individual has worked on their relationship with God.

Thank you for your opinion, I'll file it under Gratuitous Assertion as usual.

I'm sorry Spider, but you are the one who isn't paying attention.

I've proven that the Bible is false. There is no question about it.

The bible tries to claim that the Canaanite had turned away from God whilst simultaneously claiming that they are performing religious rituals which include the human sacrificing of their very own children.

Well duh?

How ignorant does a person need to be to not realize that if a culture is so devoted to God that they are actually sacrificing their own children to appease the God they possibly be accused of "rejecting God" or "turning away from God".

That's utterly absurd.

Clearly the Canaanites believed that they were worshiping God.

Therefore if there was some sort of mis-communication between God and the Canaanites it can only be blamed on God.

It can't possibly be blamed on the Canaanites?

Why not? You might ask.

Well, the answer to that should be obvious. God is the all-powerful, all-wise being here. NOT the Canaanites!

Therefore if the Canaanites were confused about what God expected from them it can only be God's fault.

Moreover, just look what I'm saying.

The Canaanites were confused over what God wants from them.

Clearly they could not possibly be rejecting God and still attempting to worship and appease God by sacrificing their children to him.

If you can't see the problem in this then I may as well be talking to my cat.

You can't have a culture who supposedly refuses to obey God, and yet acknowledge that they are still performing rituals to honor God and make attempts to appease him via blood sacrifices of their children.

Clearly they were trying desperately to appease God and do his will.

If they were going about this all wrong, then that could only be God's fault for not stepping up to the plate and instructing them in the proper ways to worship and obey him.

This is why the biblical writings can only be the truly feeble and poorly thought-out accusations of one culture toward another.

In order for the Canaanites to have truly rejected the biblical God two things would have needed to happen.

1. They would have had to recognize the biblical God as God.

2. They would have had to blatantly refuse to worship HIM.

Period.

They couldn't then go running off to worship some other 'non-existent' God.

That could only imply one thing!

That the didn't believe that the Hebrew's idea of God was real.

And to not believe is nowhere near the same as refusing to serve him.

So this whole idea of non-belief being equivalent to rejection is utter nonsense.

So it's not that I don't understand what the biblical stories are saying Spider. I'm perfectly aware of precisely what they are attempting to claim.

And it's for that reason that I recognize that they are necessarily false.

They are clearly nothing more than one culture attempting to belittle another culture for not believing in their made-up version of God.

That's clearly all they can be.

They shot themselves in the foot when they accused the Egyptians and the Canaanites of "rejecting God" whilst simultaneously acknowledging that both the Egyptians and Canaanites were both worshiping God in their own way.

Accusing a culture that's worshiping God of "rejecting God", just because you disagree with how they worship God is baloney.

If they were truly rejecting God and refusing to obey God via their own FREE WILL CHOICE, then they would not be worshiping any Gods, moreover, they wouldn't be atheists either!

They would need to actually believe in the biblical God and simply refuse to obey him, because that is the "sin" they are being charged with!

But that charge doesn't hold. Both of those cultures were indeed worshiping God, and therefore the charge that they were "rejecting God" is a false charge.

So the bible is clearly not the word of any God. It's just the ramblings of one human culture pointing fingers at another human culture and accusing them of rejecting God, when in fact, that charge has no merit.

So the biblical fables of the ancient Hebrews can be nothing other than their own accusations toward other cultures who refuse to accept their fairytales of a God.

They can't be anything more than that.

You have proven that you haven't read the Bible or even been close enough to a Christian to shake his hand. What I was telling you is what Christians believe. You have already chosen to reject it, I just thought you should know what you have already rejected.

1. Jews wrote the Hebrew Scriptures, not Christians. It is THEIR book. You have overlaid an interpretation of the flood that has nothing to do with it! Jesus was not a factor. In addition, your argument/explanation is not logical. Noah existed, eh? Along with his sons and their wives, so why was the world irredeemably evil? Of course, Noah's sons were NOT clean: they later saw their father naked (some say that means they sodomized him), and were cursed for it.

In addition, if freewill were REALLY a tenet of the Christian faith, wiping out babies before they reached the age of reason negated their freewill! Also, wiping out EVERY person except for the family of Noah negated the freewill of generations to come.

And not only that, the myth of Noah is based on earlier myths! The Jews stole it from other religions.

2. Wait a minute! You are comparing two unlike scenarios! I have NEVER offered one of my children, or the children of anyone else, to a crowd. Don't drag MY actions into this! Lot offered his daughters to a crowd and was subsequently BLESSED by god in that he was allowed to leave the city. His wife, on the other hand, who did NOT offer her daughters, was turned into a pillar of salt (snort) for looking back.

So, taking a peek back to see what was happening is WORSE than letting your daughters be raped or even killed? Oh, boy! That's a gentlemanly god!

3. Your explanation of Mary doesn't even address what I said. God says not to have sex with your neighbor's wife: in part this is to make sure she isn't impregnated with another man's child whom you will have to raise. women were STONED for having the child of men other than those of their husbands.

Yet god impregnates Mary. I don't care how he did it: he got another male's wife pregnant! Why not choose a woman who had no betrothed?

4. Let us examine the verse: (Exo 4:21 NIV) The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."

Did you read that? God says that "I" will harden his heart. Not that pharaoh would change his mind, but that GOD would harden his heart.

Other verses support this:

(Exo 10:1 NIV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them

(Exo 11:10 NIV) Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.

(Exo 14:4 NIV) And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this.

Exo 14:8 The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, so that he pursued the Israelites, who were marching out boldly.

(Exo 14:17-18 NIV) I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them. And I will gain glory through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen. {18} The Egyptians will know that I am the LORD when I gain glory through Pharaoh, his chariots and his horsemen."

Sorry, dude, your explanation doesn't stand up.

5. Abraham despaired when he thought he was going to kill Isaac. IF god were omniscient, he didn't have to test Abraham so cruelly to know how he would react.

You said that god knew that Joseph would be a good stepfather (though I have never read this in the Christian scriptures, can you point out a chapter and verse?), god knew that Mary would willing bear his child, yet god didn't know that Abraham would sacrifice his child?

Nope, doesn't add up.

You can "believe" all you would like, but that is all you have: beliefs. You have no facts, you have no statistics. My beliefs are just as valid as yours.

I asked you to interpret the passage. Telling me to interpret the chapter is what kids do when challenged.

Wow, you guys get deep, and to awsner your Q, no he dos'ent.
Ever had a little kid keep bugging you for a toy?
It gets annoying don't it?
Now try 4.5 billion kids, all screaming, crying and clinging to you for the same toy.
Would'ent you tune it out?