A growing number of scientists believe that geological evidence indicates our world has undergone a catastrophic flood. This is causing them to question whether or not the biblical account of Noah's ark could be true. Many people are rereading the Biblical description of the Ark to ascertain the feasibility of such a vessel to fulfill its designated purpose in light of present day knowledge of both zoology and our present day knowledge of shipbuilding.

Christian propaganda.

The biblical flood can never be a scientifically valid idea. And the reason is quite simple. The fish would have died too.

You see, there are fresh-water fishes, and marine or salt-water fishes. These different types of fishes (and other aquatic life) are extremely sensitive to the saline content of the water.

Ask anyone who keeps aquariums.

If a major world-wide flood had ever taken place all of the fresh-water fish species would have died from being mixed in with the salt water of the oceans. Or if you believe that rains would have diluted the salt-water then you have the marine fish going into shock and dying.

In either case it's an unworkable idea from a scientific perspective. So no reasonable scientist is considering this. Probably only evangelical scientists who are more obsessed with saving their religion than they are with being rational about what is truly scientifically possible are considering these things.

Besides, we don't even need science to show us that the biblical stories are necessarily false. We have the biblical stories themselves to show us that they are false.

The Bible claims that God is unchanging and the same today, tomorrow, and yesterday. They make this claim because they need to be DEPENDABLE. You can't have a religion with an undependable God who keeps changing the way he deals with things and what he wants and expects from us.

Yet this is ultimately what the Christians version of the Bible does with the New Testament. It has the Old Testament God dealing with sin by drowning people or killing them with no mercy. But then in the New Testament it has God offering his son as a sacrificial lamb to pay for the sins of mankind. That is as drastic of a change as a God can possibly undergo.

So the Christian version of the Bible with the New Testament can't be true because it's in direct violation with its own premise of what its God is supposed to be like.

Therefore if there is any truth to the biblical stories at all, it can only be in the original religion of Judaism before the New Testament and Jesus.

Most Christians would drop the religion in a heartbeat if they had to give up the New Testament and Jesus. Most of them don't like the Old Testament God. The only thing that attracts them to the religion is Jesus, take Jesus out of it and they don't like what's left.

That's just the hardcore truth of the matter.

There is absolutely NO CHANGE. The laws people had from the beginning of time is the same laws we have today. The only reward for sin is death then, the only reward for sin is death now. God CHANGED NOTHING. To be forgiven of sins a sacrifice was to be done, giving up of something important in a show of remorse for your actions. Jesus the only begotten child of God wilfully gave his life for YOU. Was not forced by our father. He willingly did it for YOU in sacrifice for YOU. NOTHING changed.

In old testament to receive forgiveness of sins you were to sacrifice something to be forgive of your sins, showing remorse and an action rather then words to apologize and ask for forgiveness.

In new testament to receive forgives of sins you are to accept Jesus as lord and saviour accepting his sacrifice he gave for you. And to receive forgiveness one must repent from that sin of which they are asking forgiveness of.

Again NOTHING CHANGED, go spread your lies else where please.

Perfect Abra.. Then when all the fish died a organism scum in the oceans and fresh water could of developed into fish once again from nothing..Evolution 101.. I knew u were good..Shalom...Miles

Cowboy, if you feel comfortable with the biblical stories that's fine.

But I see no reason to call people liars just because they disagree with you.

Clearly we disagree.

No need to get uncouth about it.

Yes that is fine we disagree with beliefs, that's not where you're lying. You were lying about the Christian belief. So please don't spread foul and wrong things about Christianity. You can deny it all you want, that is your prerogative. But spreading lies about it is another story.

Either that, or God could have just waved his magic wand, protected the fish from the saline shock and herded them all back into the proper lakes and streams as the floods receded. And then made the fresh waters fresh again, and so on.

But I always wonder why God didn't just take his magic wand and turn all the sinners into pillars of salt like Lot's wife. That would have been far cleaner than flooding all the animals to death.

~~~

Every time I think of this story I imagine the following solution:

Instead of having Noah build an Ark, have him build a large nursery. Then wave his magic wand to give all the adult sinners a heart attack (they were supposedly having sex like crazy anyway, so it would even be hard to tell the he did this).

Then have Noah and his family go around collecting all the innocent babies and children and take them into the nursery and raise them properly. Then God wouldn't have had to drown all the innocent babies and children, and only the sinners would die.

~~~~

Sometimes when I propose the above solution some Christians will object saying that the entire bloodline was "bad seed" and therefore it wouldn't make any sense to save the babies because they are born to sin.

Ok, fine, if that's the case, then just wave the magic wand and make them all sterile. Within a single generation they're all gone naturally. No need to flood the planet.

~~~~

Forgetting entirely about the scientific complications of a world-wide flood, I personally just feel that it's not even close to being a wise solution to this problem in any case.

So once again, I see a situation where the biblical God is trying to solve a problem using a really crude and unwise method, when even as a mere moral man I can offer quite a few solutions that are far more efficient.

Why flood out all the animals and plant life just to kill a few sinning humans? Makes no sense to me.

I'm not spreading any lies about it.

It's my honest sincere view that God's approach to dealing with mankind has changed drastically between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

That is no lie, it's simply my view.

Moreover, a lot of things CHANGED even according to you!

According to you, men were supposed to judge each other in the Old Testament. In the new testament only Jesus is the judge.

As far as I'm concerned that's a CHANGE.

In the old Testament we were supposed to seek revenge as in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Jesus CHANGED that and said that we should turn the other cheek and forgive others their trespasses against us.

It's not even close being the same, IMHO.

So from my point of view you are the one who is lying about things in an attempt to pretend that the fables can be consistent, when in fact they aren't.

But instead of calling each other liars, why don't we just agree to disagree?

Seems like the "Christian" thing to do don't you think? Turn the other cheek and forgive those who trespass against our beliefs.

What you are grumbling is further proof that you don't know how to interpret scripture...

God Almighty through His Prophets, has prophecied from Genesis to Revelation of the Salvation of the Lord, even BEFORE Abraham.

Unto us a Son is given!!!

Mat_2:23, And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
Mat_5:12, Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat_5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat_7:12, Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat_7:15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat_11:13, For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Mat_13:17, For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Mat_16:14, And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat_22:40, On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mat_23:29, Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat_23:30, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat_23:31, Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat_23:34, Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat_23:37, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat_24:11, And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat_24:24, For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat_26:56, But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
Mar_1:2, As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mar_6:15, Others said, That it is Elias. And others said, That it is a prophet, or as one of the prophets.
Mar_8:28, And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets.
Mar_13:22, For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Luk_1:70, As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luk_6:23, Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Luk_6:26, Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Luk_9:8, And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.
Luk_9:19, They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
Luk_10:24, For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Luk_11:47, Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
Luk_11:49, Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
Luk_11:50, That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luk_13:28, There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luk_13:34, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
Luk_16:16, The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk_16:29, Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk_16:31, And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Luk_18:31, Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
Luk_24:25, Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk_24:27, And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk_24:44, And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Joh_1:45, Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Joh_6:45, It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh_8:52, Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
Joh_8:53, Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
Act_3:18, But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Act_3:21, Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Act_3:24, Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Act_3:25, Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Act_7:42, Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
Act_7:52, Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act_10:43, To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act_11:27, And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
Act_13:1, Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act_13:15, And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
Act_13:27, For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
Act_13:40, Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
Act_15:15, And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act_15:32, And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
Act_24:14, But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Act_26:22, Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
Act_26:27, King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
Act_28:23, And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

The Biblical Prophecies can be traced from Genesis to Revelation.

Isaiah 46:9-13
9, Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11, Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
12, Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:
13, I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Sorry, I'm no more impressed than the Jews were.

The Jews have shown that Jesus could not have been the prophecised messiah because he did not fulfill all that was in that prophecy.

In fact, Cristian clergy have agreed with the Jews, they simply object claiming that Jesus will complete the prophesy in his "second coming".

But the Jews claim there is no reason to believe that there should be any second coming.

I agree with the Jews;

Even the gospels have Jesus saying the following:


Matt.24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark.13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luke.21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.


If you can TRUST the gospels to have correctly quoted Jesus, then there is no reason to believe in any second coming, because all of the gospels agree that Jesus himself said that everything he had prophesied about would be fulfilled before the current generation he was speaking to had passed.

Well, it's now 2000 years later, if we give any merit to the words of Jesus we'd be totally foolish to expect that anything he had prophecized back then was going to take place now, or in our future.

The generation he was talking to has long since passed. Any rapture he might have predicted has long since taken place.

In fact, if we're going to believe in the Bible we have no choice but to realize that Jesus already came back and took the FEW people he was interested in a long time ago, and we're just the descendants of the rejects who were left behind.

We missed the rapture. It's a done deal. Sorry.

for nothing mortal knows god face to face, till it first cares not about proving anything itself knows as true.

for the infinity powers of all heaven and hell, and every god and devil, reside not in what another human thinks or read while on earth.

Parable of the Fig Tree
Matthew 24:32-35

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
KJV
Matthew 24:32-35 presents a parable that has created many interpretations among scholars. What does the fig tree symbolize?

"Now learn" creates a transition from the previous verses into this parable. As with all parables, there is a spiritual meaning behind the story. Buried within several interpretive issues found in these few short verses is the meaning of this parable.

The entire context of Matthew 24-25 (and its parallels in Mark and Luke) has helped to fuel the differences in end time views and interpretations. One's overall suppositions regarding pre-millennialism, post-millennialism, amillennialism, and the issue of the Rapture will play a significant role in one's view of these verses. Likewise, declaring one's self to be a preterist, historicalist, an idealist, or a futurist plays a role in one's view of the fig tree parable. If there is no millennium, or if all of the events of Matthew 24 occurred early in the history of the church, the fig tree parable contains significantly different meaning than if one adopts a futurist, real millennium view.
In answering this question, the presuppositions forming the background of consideration are those of a pre-tribulation Rapture, a pre-millennial tribulation, a real millennial rule by Jesus, and a generally futurist view of end times prophecy.
In the first 31 verses of this chapter of Matthew, Jesus has been addressing issues raised by the Apostles. Jesus was discussing the future status of the Temple (24:1-2) and this raised questions in the minds of His followers. These questions are found in verse 3: "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world"
It is important to note the beginning of Christ's answer: "Take heed that no man deceive you" (v4). Jesus provides the information of this chapter to assure that His followers are not deceived by the events leading to the "end of the world" and the Second Coming. There will be a Second Coming. There will be an end of the world.
Jesus not only wants us to understand this, but He greatly desires that we not be deceived while we await these events.
In verse 8 Jesus makes it clear that the signs He has detailed are but the "beginning of sorrows." Indeed, in verse 14 Jesus imposes a condition upon the end times, namely the preaching of the Gospel to the entire world. In fact, the true sign of the end times is Jesus Himself (verse 30). Following the sign of the Son of Man, the angels go forth to harvest the earth (verse 31).

Therefore, Jesus wants His disciples to "learn." He desires that the Apostles, and everyone who reads Scripture, understand the "parable of the fig tree" and understand the meaning of the parable. Yet, as referred to above, the presuppositions of interpretation lead to multiple meanings of the details of the parable. At least three different issues arise in these few verses.

Although the first issue encountered is the fig tree itself, the understanding of the fig tree is best considered after a review of verse 33 and the meaning of "all these things." While it would be easy to apply this phrase to the budding of the fig tree, the context of the parable demands a meaning applicable to the entire discourse. "These things" must be the "signs" provided by Jesus in the entire discourse set forth in chapter 24. The disciples did not ask about fig trees. Their questions addressed the things leading to the end of the world and the Second Coming of Jesus.

Likewise, Jesus response to the questions all point to the conclusions of verses 30-31, the sign of the Son of man and the Second Coming. To remain consistent within the confines of the discourse, the "things" of verse 33 must be the signs set forth by our Lord in response to the disciples questions. These "things" are the "beginning of sorrows" (verse 8). They are the signs that point toward Second Coming of Christ. They are clearly different from the consumption of the end. If the signs were part of the end, then the parable would not make a great deal of sense.

Having established that the parable is about the signs leading to the end of the world, it is easier to understand the nature of the fig tree within the parable. The context, as discussed, calls for a natural understanding of the fig tree parable. Earlier in this Gospel (21:18-22), as well as other parts of Scripture (Luke 13:6-10; 21:29; Joel 1:6-7; Hosea 9:10), Israel is referred to as a fig tree. Many desire to carry this symbolic meaning into the parable. Yet, this is an unnatural reading of the context. While Israel could be symbolically reflected in the parable, the discourse is about the signs of the end times, not about Israel. To read Israel into the parable makes Israel itself the sign of the coming, a conclusion outside the meaning of the discourse.

The natural meaning of the parable is straightforward. Summer is arriving when the branches of the fig tree turn green and the buds start to blossom. All parables make use of the common elements of life to describe a spiritual meaning. Since the concept of parables is to allow believers to understand the spiritual meaning, the easy context is a "just as" comparison. So, just as the fig tree s blooming predicts summer, so the signs provided in the discourse will predict the Second Coming of Christ and the end of the world. Remember, these were the two questions asked by the disciples and answered by Jesus.

To view the fig tree in a symbolic fashion strains the understanding of the "just as" comparison. Is the question "as the fig tree blossoms, so Israel will blossom?" Alternatively, as some like to interpret it, "as Israel blossoms as a nation, the end times will come." Yet, there has been no discussion of Israel in the discourse.

The discourse is not about Israel but about the end of the world. In the context of the discourse, there is no relationship between Israel and the disciples questions. Therefore, it is unrealistic to "discover" the symbolism of the fig tree as representing Israel.
The positive nature of such an assertion is clouded, however, by verse 34: "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." This verse is full of issues that could lend support to a symbolic meaning of the fig tree. If "this generation" obviously relates to Israel, then "all these things" might be reinterpreted to point to the nation.

There appear to be three generally accepted possibilities as to the meaning of "generation" (Greek: genea):

First, the term may mean a time-period of "life." Scholars vary a great deal on the number of years comprising a generation, with the possibilities ranging from 20 to 100 years. In other words, if this meaning is accepted, then the things discussed related to a single lifetime, regardless of the assumed length. This would appear to lead to two sub-views. The first is that the generation in question represented those alive at the time Christ spoke these words. This presents serious problems since one must then interpret all related issues as fulfilled within some fix measurement of time ending before 70 A.D.

The other version is that the generation in question deals with those alive at the time of the fulfillment of the signs. This allows the measuring period to "move." Presumably, under a preterist view, these two versions would be the same. If one accepts a futurist view, then either these events are not yet fulfilled or else Christ meant the signs would "begin" to be fulfilled during the lifetime of the disciples.

A second meaning is that the term refers to Israel as a nation, a "race." Race is a valid interpretation of genea. The idea behind this statement is a guarantee of Israel�s perpetuity as a nation until the end times. If one adopts this meaning, then, perhaps, it becomes easier to read a symbolic meaning into the fig tree parable.
A third meaning is that generation means "age" or "time period" in a more general sense and is a reference to this "age," the dispensation of grace.

The broader setting of the discourse should be considered to better understand "generation". The flow of Matthew's Gospel follows a very specific path. Jesus continually offers Himself to the nation of Israel as its Messiah. The nation continually rejects Him, with obvious, mounting, tension arising between Jesus and the religious leaders. The conflict probably climaxes with Christ's questions to the disciples found at 16:13 and 16:15. The questions go to the true identity of Jesus. "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am" (16:13).

While there will be continued interaction between Jesus and the religious leaders following these questions, the break with Israel has occurred. Jesus will now turn to the Gentiles and the formation of the Church. Following His entrance into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, Jesus continues to discourse with the religious leaders, mostly in the form of parables. At 21:33, Jesus tells us the parable of the vineyard owner and the evil servants. At 21:43, Christ climaxes that parable by saying: "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it."

The kingdom of God has been taken away from the nation of Israel and given to a "new nation," the Church, the Body of Christ. This being true, the "generation" of verse 34 cannot be the generation of those listening to the discourse. The keys of the kingdom had been removed from Israel and the Church has not yet been formed to receive the kingdom. The first-century nation of Israel received the judgment of God. Accordingly, the context of the discourse of chapter 24 points to the generation being something other than those alive at that time. The "generation" looks to the future.
This conclusion also, indirectly, at least, points to "generation" not specifically meaning Israel as a race or nation. Those who see the "generation" as referring to Israel will interpret the fig tree symbolically. In this view, the "signs" of the parable are the "budding of Israel."

Following Malachi, God was silent and Israel lay dormant. The nation operated with no true government of its own. Following the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD and the ensuing persecution, the nation also had no land, no temple, and no priesthood. In other words, there has been no sign of national life for approximately 1900 years. Persecution scattered the individual Jews throughout the world. Then, almost suddenly, in 1948, Israel became a nation again. It has possessed its own land, and operated its own government, currency, stamps, and the like. While the nation remains spiritually barren, the national "rebirth" is seen as the budding of the fig tree.
If Israel's "budding" is the sign of the fig tree, one must then still describe how this fits into the issue of "generation." Leaving it open ended does not help define the prophecy. Presumably, "generation" means those alive at the budding of the nation.

The real issue with viewing the fig tree in this fashion is that prophecy becomes limited. Depending upon one's view of the length of a "generation" (20 years, 100 years, etc.), the outside date of the end time events has now been knowingly fixed. About the longest date possible is to adopt the position that the 1967 War is the actually formation date for the nation rather than 1948. As such, sometime between 2048 and 2067 the end times will be concluded. This provides for little or no imminence for the Second Coming, especially as the days pass by. It also ignores Christ's statement that the "signs" are merely the "beginning of sorrows."

This argument also appears to rule out the idea of using a fixed time-period as the measure or meaning of "generation." Those adopting the view that generation means 30 or 40 years can, at best, stretch the end times date to 2007. While this may be the date, the concept of applying this type of meaning becomes difficult. It appears that a generation is usually view as something measured
between 30 and 40 years in the Bible. The generation of the "spies" of the Exodus appears to measure out at 38 years maximum, the time the Israelites wandered in the wilderness. Psalm 90:10 tells us that man's life is seventy years, occasionally stretching to the eighty-year mark. Thus, a Biblical generation appears to be no longer than 80 years at the outside, and should most likely be considered less than 70 years.

In the Old Testament, the concept of a generation appears to be either a more or less specific time span (Gen 15:16) or an indefinite concept applying to a group of people. An example of the first is found in comparing Genesis 15:13 with Exodus 12:40 where one may imply that a generation is one hundred years. At the same time Deuteronomy 1:35 and 2:14 appear to indicate that a generation is thirty-eight years (see also Job 42:16). Daniel 4:3, 34 appears to make two generations 70 years, or 35 years per generation.
The indefinite application maybe found in verses such as Isaiah 51:9 where a group is view as a past generation, Exodus 3:15 where the group is future or Exodus 1:6 where it is applied to the men of the present life (contemporaries). The indefinite sense is also found in classes of men such as in "crooked generations" (Deut 32:5) or "generation of the righteous" (Ps 14:5).

It would seem two conclusions may be drawn from the Old Testament usage of "generation." First, as indicated above, it would not appear to specifically apply to the nation of Israel. Second, the measure of a generation is vague and depends upon either context or further information provided by the context. This, as is also argued above, rules out the concept of interpreting "generation" as a fixed time-period.
The "generation," then, is that group of people alive when the events of the end times commence. This generation is those who are
alive when God's plan blossoms into the events we call the Tribulation, the period culminating in the Second Coming of Jesus. The generation alive at that time will see the final fulfillment of the signs of the end of the world.
This group will include national Israel, so, in a sense, Israel is included in the parable of the fig tree, but only because many other prophecies, mostly those of the Old Testament, remain to be fulfilled for Israel. There will be Jews alive in "this generation" to witness the concluding events of God's plans. This conclusion will include the restoration of national Israel as was promised by many of the Old Testament prophets.
This understanding raises one additional interpretation of "this generation." It is not exactly a different interpretation as much as it is a gloss on the idea that "generation" truly means national Israel. Under this view, the "generation" of Jesus' day was those who steadfastly rejected Him as Messiah. This was national Israel.
National Israel remains even today a nation who refuses to accept Jesus as Messiah. Therefore, this "generation" has persisted for 2,000. It will continue to exist until the Second Coming. Accordingly, "this generation" existed at the time Jesus spoke and will continue to exist until His Return. Under this view, this verse of Matthew becomes a prophecy against the nation.

Many include verse 35 with verses 36-38. Clearly, verses 35 and 36 are warnings to the entire world, but particularly to believers, about attempts to set an exact date for Christ�s return. This would generally speak against any view of "generation" that creates a finite set of dates, such as the physical rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948. These verses provide a comparison to past biblical events that show the condition of the world at the time of the Second Coming.

The condition of the world will resemble a world filled with the "signs" of the Second Coming given in this entire chapter of Matthew, as well as the condition of mankind. In general, this condition will be one of unbelief, similar to that of first-century Israel, the generation of Jews who rejected Jesus. This "generation" of verse 34 will be like the generation of Noah�s day, a generation bent on personal pleasure rather than the worship and reverence of God.

The individual importance of verse 35 comes as an assurance of the Truth and Faithfulness of Christ�s Words. In the immediate context, this verse applies not only to the paragraph under discussion, but also to the entire discourse (Matthew 24-25) of which it is a part. At the same time, the implication becomes apparent that verse 35 applies to all of the Words of Jesus. His Words are faithful and true, all of His Words. Jesus is God, so His Words are the Words of God. The Words of God are faithful and true. Therefore, all of the Words of Jesus are faithful and true.

This verse tells us that "heaven and earth shall pass away" but the Words of God will not. At the level of personal faith, this verse is one providing great assurance for the truth and veracity of the Bible. Heaven and earth will, indeed, pass away (2 Peter 3:10�13; Revelation 20:11) but God�s Words will remain forever. God�s Words are more certain than the very existence of the universe (the foundation of belief for modern man!).
In summary then, the parable of the fig tree is a story that provides us with a natural understanding of the signs of the end times. While the events described in Matthew 24 and its Gospel parallels are events always occurring in history, when they commence to be fulfilled completely, the end of the world is here. The events are fulfilled during the Tribulation period, the seven years preceding the return of Jesus. As such, one "sign" not mentioned by Jesus as an indicator of the commencement of the Tribulation is the Rapture of the Church. Since this event has not happened, we are not yet living in the period of fulfillment.

Nevertheless, we may certainly be living in the "generation" who will see the completion of "all these things." The generation referred to by Jesus in these verses is the generation alive at the actual commencement of the end time signs. To, perhaps, oversimplify the description "this generation" will be those unbelievers alive at the time of the Rapture. Since this is true, there is a sense in which those who see "this generation" as representing national Israel (at least, unbelieving national Israel) are correct, for this group will be part of this generation. However, since the parable of the sheep and the goats of Matthew 25:31-46 teaches that Gentiles will be saved during the Tribulation, "this generation" must be a broader group than just national Israel.


http://www.judeministries.org/theoDetails.php?pageNum_rdTheoDetails=6&totalRows_rdTheoDetails=7&studyID=2&pageNumType=1

Nothing changed. In the old testament times people were judged by the word, in the new testament times people are judged by the word. There is no difference other then the fact that the word has been made flesh and will carry out the judgement on his own. But we've always been judged by the word.

there be one god?

is god eternal?

no beginning and no ending?

god hath children of god?

multiplied?

if god hath children of god, than god hath been mulitplying with no beginning and no ending?

how many children are are?

how many children of god are proposed to have made it all the way to adult?

so, than how many adult gods exist?

how be there one god?

at any time after the FIRST day there was one god?

than HOW MANY SINCE THAN?

solve this riddle, and solve god.

The Eastern Mystics have solved that riddle.

Thus they must hold the wisdom of the solution to god.

than they twould embrace every other religion as equal to their own, since ALL voices twould be heard as "child gods"...

and all the voices of all the child gods on earth now, twould be joined togteher...

could one child say to another child god, you are not a child god?

for if the riddle is solved, than there is no possible way for there to be any scientific or religious or human quotion to not be emcompassed...

you gotta dig deeper than that dear scientist brilliant mind abra...

SOLVE IT MATHEMATICALLY DUMMY!

not feelings SOME FEELINGS!

with the intellect.

THRU THOUGHT OUT PROCESS.

if you reach the end, you will know what you have sought to know since a child, and don't know for sure what it is.

can't put your finger on it.

NOT A BLIEF.

if one points itself, to something else that has solved a riddle other than itself, could it have solved the same riddle yet itself?

for if indeed the knowing had permeated the fibers of the being, of solving for oneself, than one twould indeed say, YEA, i have solved the riddle, and yea, the eastern mystics opened my eyes, that were blind, and yea enlightenment did smote me to the floor in awe...

and the mind swmimmed and swirrel, and as oceans waves pulse thru the mind, and not one muscle did twitch indeed it twas a silent night, christmas eve silent night...

merry christman to you dearest abra.



for if the riddle was solved,

But my dearest David, they do.

They do embrace every other religion as equal to their own. For they recognize that all religions are nothing more than a viewpoint. Just as theirs is.

Just because a particular religion claims to be the "only true word of God", does not make it so. That's merely a viewpoint.

Therefore, as a viewpoint, and solely as a viewpoint, it is equal to all other viewpoints (i.e. to all other religions)

It's only when such religions are taken too seriously that they become absurd and meaningless.

So yes, all religions are valid views. But that doesn't make any of them 'absolute'. Nor does it make their views necessarily "true" in any absolute sense.

The abstraction of Eastern Mysticism applies to its very own self. The Eastern Mystics are fully aware of this.

It's called "Mysticism" because it fully recognizes that the absolute core truth that everyone seeks cannot be known.

It is indeed a Mystery. (i.e. Mysticism)

This is why many scholars often say that Eastern Mysticism is truly not a religion at all. It's actually a philosophy that speaks to the issues of what any religion can and cannot possibly know with any degree of certainty.

In any case, that wasn't the riddle you had posed anyway.

The riddle you had posed was to ask how it is possible for there to be only one God if God is constantly creating new children and has been doing so for all of eternity. Surely there must be more "adult gods" by now, thus violating the original premise that there can only be one God.

Well, since Eastern Mysticism considers pantheism, or panentheism, as the most likely essence of reality, then the riddle you have posed is solved. Because pantheism, or panentheism, automatically solves the riddle you've raised. There is only ONE God, and God is everything, therefore God does not "create" children at all, and never has. God simply becomes the "child", grows, and then become God again in a never-ending cycle. No new souls are ever truly "created". All souls are ultimately nothing more than a facet of the mind of God.

A glitter on the diamond of God.

That solves the riddle that you had posed.

There is but one FATHER. Know ye not that ye are gods and children of the high?

No one said their wasn't more then one god. There is but one FATHER.

Why do you bother arguing with abra? All he's going to do is reject what you say and misquote scripture.

Abra his what we call "Willfully ignorant" Or as kent Honvind puts it: "Stupid by choice"

I can also speak of what solomon says in proverbs I think. "Show a fool the error of his ways and he will scorn you"

Abra scorns us when we tell him what's right.

Not even jesus would stick around when he was rejected. He would not sit and argue with sinners. Only those who wanted to understand.

My suggestion? Ignore Abra and his rantings. Maybe when no one listens he will go and let someone else enjoy his teachings.

I don't see where Abra scorns anyone.

But I certainly see a blatant violation of forum rules in your post. Here you are attacking the character of another forum member with the intent to ridicule and defile, in the name of Jesus the Christ Almighty no less.

All you're doing is preaching that Christians should ignore truth and blind themselves from anyone who refuses to believe in their cult.

I speak only of truth. I only address truth.



Thank you very much. I appreciate your support.

When it is suggest that someone should be ignored, all you are truly saying is the following:

"Abra gives such clear and concise reasoning to back up all of his views that it's impossible to argue with them. So maybe if we ignore him he will take his obvious truths somewhere else where we won't need to be embarrassed by them".

So you're suggesting that people should reject Freedom of Speech by mounting a campaign of ignorance (ignore the truth), in an effort to drive a member away from the forums via a practice of community shunning.

This sounds like a tactic from the dark ages.

I would LOVE IT!

I can't imagine people not responding to me when I'm bouncing off the thoughts they post. That would make it appear that they simply have no come-back, or can't think of anything to say that could possibly refute my views.

That would be great.

I'm looking forward to the day that this comes to pass.