If it helps you, what helps me stay in this forum(s) is that the person you're talking to may not get what you're saying, agree, or believe you. But others that do not post read the threads. So I post it so those people can read and learn instead of being hard headed and arrogant like most the people here that deny the lord.

It is not given to them to understand the Word of God.





They prefer Satan's lies over the Truth.

Don't take it personally.

You've been a good steward of the Word.

So true...There are many who have ears to hear...

and do thirst for God's Righteousness.

Oh brother.

Here comes the Christian arrogance again.

Matthew 22:
Parable of the Marriage Feast

1, And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4, Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5, But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6, And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7, But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8, Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9, Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10, So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11, And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12, And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13, Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14, For many are called, but few are chosen.
15, Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
16, And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17, Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18, But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19, Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20, And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21, They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22, When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
23, The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
24, Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
25, Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
26, Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27, And last of all the woman died also.
28, Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29, Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30, For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31, But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33, And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
34, But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35, Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40, On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
41, While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43, He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45, If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46, And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

amen

Matthew 11:15
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

According to this commandment – it is vital to god that he always be FIRST among gods. Therefore, the biblical god recognizes that he will be one of many.



Yet there are likenesses of angels and demons and even god throughout the literature of Christianity.
What Christian does not immediately recognize the likeness of Jesus? How many Christians are annoyed when such a likeness is characterized?
How many churches have the iconic cross ‘built’ into their design? How many Christians carry the carved images that have been ‘blessed’ by the hierarchy of the Church?
FINALLY, why would God promote any man of flesh as his one and only intermediary?



Since the name of god is actually in question and the word, ‘god’, is open to definition then damning something in god’s name may not be a sin at all as commandment one suggests, there are many gods.
ALSO – there is the question of WHEN swearing in gods name is actually using the name of god in vain ?



So six sequential days to do all our labor and the seventh to ??? what?
Who milks the cows on the seventh day, who tends to the sick in a hospital or a nursing home or the children on the seventh day?
Is there an exception where war is concerned?

What if you work for and international organization and the country you must do business with does not recognize a Sabboth day and demands several hours of your time on such a day to complete the final contract of multi-million dollar deal?



What if your mother is a prostitute or your father is physically abusive? What about adopted parents, are they your mother and father? What about same-sex couples who have children they care for together – do the same-sex couple become the objects of similar honor?



Do we murder cows, pigs, chickens and such?
Do we murder the pets we have grown to love when we cannot bare their pain any longer and euthanize them?
Do we murder people when we refuse to provide preventive medical intervention?
Do we murder people when we recognize their need for food and water but do nothing to rectify their situation?



By current standards, adultery is recognized as copulation between a married man or woman and another person.

Obviously, the key words are “By current standards” – meaning at least some of the ten commandments seem to be ‘modified’ to fit current social standards.

ALSO, quite obvious is that very few, if any, churches consider this commandment with the kind of regard that Christians in general, place on the Ten Commandments. That leads to questions about how important all the other commandments are.



If someone looses something and another finds it and keeps it, is that stealing?

If, in the eyes of God, all humans are created equal, is it stealing to deny individuals equal treatment of the civil law?

Is it stealing to dispossess, or strip, otherwise equal individuals, of protections and benefits provided in the civil law?



If my neighbor moves to another state, can I bear false witness against him/her?

If the government sets up a regiment of propaganda targeting another nation, (the red scare comes to mind), and the American people buy it – is that bearing false witness against global neighbors?



If my neighbor has something I REALLY would like to own, and I offer my neighbor something of value in return and he agrees to the arrangement, is that coveting ?

If my neighbor is someone whose affluence is something I would aspire to, is that coveting?

UH OH – I’m all out of commandments – what happened to the one that tells Christians how to respond to homosexuality?

The way some of them treat the whole topic of homosexuality I would think it would be at least as important as adultery or honoring our mother or father. So what’s up with that?

Psalm 82:6

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

So yes, all our father is saying here is for us not to put any person on this planet on a higher pedestal then our father which art in heaven. Or put more importance to someone in particular then the importance we put into our father.

No we do not "murder" animals. Animals are on this planet for us to eat. God has given us dominion over the earth and the animals. Yes just killing animals for the heck of it and wasting them is sinful. But just killing them to eat is not. Animals do not have "souls".

=======================
Do we murder people when we refuse to provide preventive medical intervention?
Do we murder people when we recognize their need for food and water but do nothing to rectify their situation?
========================

Not sure if that falls into the killing category. But that is a sinful action, for we are to help our neighbours upon this earth. So yes even if not "murder" it is still nevertheless sinful and no sin is greater then the other except denying the lord thy God.

Well then, what was your goal in posting about your beliefs? Do you envision yourself as a teacher or a student? Is it not possible to be both teacher and student?

Do you think there is any person alive today from whom you could not learn something? Do you think you are any different from everyone else – that you have ‘nothing’ to teach or 'nothing' to learn?

By what means do you think the success of a teacher is measured?

Personally, I think the measure of a teacher’s success is found in what the teacher learned from the student.

If a teacher learns nothing through the experience of teaching, it is not the fault of the student.

If a student leans nothing from a teacher, it is not the fault of the teacher.

To be either, teacher or student, one must be good at being both.

Determine what qualities (characteristics) you would value in both a teacher and a student and incorporate those values into your world view. Life here is short, but as long as we live we have more to learn and more to teach.

Humans do not, in general, require animal flesh to live. In fact, humans cannot subsist long on flesh alone. Animals however, offer a lot of other value, not the least of which is that serve to create a balanced echosystem when both, animals and their environment are left undistrubed.

So since, animal flesh is not generally necessary for dietary needs, then at the very least we cause those creatures great suffering needlessly.

According to some scriptures it seems that God places great value on the life of those animals - why would you think our harmful actions against animals, for no reason, would be an acceptable thing to their creator?



So you are saying that, at the very least, the commandment is not clear? That situations can arise that bring into question if our actions are sinful ones.

As for "we are to help our neighbors", through what commandment does inaction (to help our neighbors on this earth) become a sin?



Here you point to one commandment as if there were a hirarchy within them. If believing in the god of Abraham was enough to gain eternal life, then the sacrifice of Jesus would have served no purpose.

That sacrifice was to forgive the sins forged through the temtations of the flesh. One of the temtations is curiosity, one of charateristics of humans is to apply new knowledge in creative ways, which can alter how individuals view the universe and its creation.

So denying the biblical picture of god is nothing more than any other transgression, ALL of which were recognized as part of the inherant nature of humans that required the ultimate human sacrifice.

Therefore, belief in God or Jesus should not be necessary at all in gaining eternal existance. Jesus sacrifice would make no sense if humans would still be bound to laws they could not keep even if they could determine how in what situations those laws should be applied.

In this day and age possibly yes. We do not require the physical strength as we once were in need of. Animals provide protein for muscle development. They provide clothing, leather, fur for coats, ect.



Because it is not needlessly. Again protein is needed for muscle growth and brain functions. It is an important nutrient that these people are depriving themselves of. Yes, we can "survive" without this nutrient, but we are not as efficient without it.



Mark 12:31

31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

This among many other verse say this. Provide for others as you provide for yourself. That's why you provide for your children, cause you love them. Same can be simulated to other people around the world.



Jesus is there to obtain forgiveness of our sins. Sin is the act of turning away from God. So if you have turned away from God with your sins, how can you say you believe in him? How can you say you love your parent(s) if you continuously disobey and bring hardship to them?

Do you realize that this is indeed what Buddhism had been teaching long before Jesus ever lived? And Confucius taught it before Buddha, as well as Lao Tzu, and countless others.

There's nothing new here. The gospels also claim that Jesus said, "What you do to the least of your brothers you do unto me" That's a pantheistic statement that is in perfect harmony with what Buddhism had been teaching for centuries before Jesus was ever born.

There's nothing new or original in anything that Jesus taught. The Eastern Mystics had all this stuff figured out a very long time ago, and this is most likely where Jesus himself learned of these ideals.

Besides, should you really need to be commanded to do this? Shouldn't you do this naturally on your own? Especially after the wisdom of it has been pointed out to you? And you certainly don't need Jesus or the bible to find this wisdom.

A pantheist understands why this makes sense because they understand where Jesus was coming from. But you're saying that a Christian only does it because the need to 'obey' in order to earn their way into some eternal afterlife?

I'd rather just be naturally like Jesus than to merely obey his commands in the hope earning a prize.

"I do not believe that a man should be restrained in his daily actions by being afraid of punishment after death or that he should do things only because in this way he will be rewarded after he dies. This does not make sense. The proper guidance during the life of a man should be the weight that he puts upon ethics and the amount of consideration that he has for others." - Albert Einstein

Basically Cowboy, all you seem to be telling us is that the only reason you have for "obeying" this God is to seek the reward of eternal life of potentially avoid spiritual death. I can't help but wonder how you might treat other people if you didn't feel a need to earn a prize or elude a punishment.

Why is it that you can only think in terms of rewards and punishments? How much greater love would a parent have for a child who naturally loves other people with no need to be threatened by punishment or lured by the promise of a reward?

Yet, the religion you worship condemns people who do these things naturally. If they aren't knowingly recognizing and "obeying" your God, then they are condemned as "turning away from God". That's clearly just religious bigotry that has no place in any divine spiritual picture.

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment." - Albert Einstein

I'm in total agreement with Albert Einstein on this point. The very concept of reward and punishment as a means of teaching moral principles is an oxymoron and counter-productive to the very thesis.

This is why it cannot be the method of any supposedly all-wise divine entity. It's counter-productive and ultimately unwise. And thus it flies in the face of the very concept of supreme wisdom. So it's clearly a false doctrine and cannot be true.

No it is not done out of obedience in order to obtain heaven. That would be doing things in vein and for the bettering of oneself. Is that the only reason you obeyed your parents as a child? Just out of vein in order to better yourself? Or did you listen to your parents out of love? Out of the desire to show your love for them through your obedience? We don't obey out of direst and fear of hell, we don't do it to better ourself. Both occasions would again make the action(s) in vein. And if something is done in vein and not full heartedly, it's actually worse then not having done it in the first place. Veinful actions are a sin as well, so you would gain no ground by doing good things in vein.

No that's not the only reason. That's not even a reasoning of why I am obedient and or that I spend hours upon hours telling people of the lord. I do it purely out of love and the bettering of others. Hoping to give them the possibility of the gift of heaven. It has nothing for me in what I do. If I don't make it to heaven, at least I would know I possibly lead someone else there. And that would all be worth it right there.

It's not centered around either punishment or a reward. That has almost absolutely nothing to do with why people obey God. We obey out of LOVE, out of LOVE for our father. Not for the bettering of us, we do it for the bettering of others and again to show the LOVE we hold for our father to our father. It's not Christianity that is centered around punishments and rewards as you previously tried to say, it's you and others like you that get stuck on that. Again we don't do what we do in order to receive anything, or to keep us from burning in the lake of fire. We do it out of LOVE and obedience to our father.

Well, if you did it because you want to, then you wouldn't be 'obeying' anyone you'd just being doing what feels right for you.

This is what Albert Einstein recognized and you obviously don't yet understand.



So you're the great unselfish "savior" of souls willing to give your own life for others just like Jesus did. Amazing. And here I thought Jesus was supposed to be special in that way, but obviously it's a common trait of mere mortal men like you and me. Just normal human behavior that many men and women exhibit daily. So there was nothing special about Jesus then since many of us are willing to do the same.




If you truly believe that, then you should fully understand why many people simply aren't prepared to worship the ancient Hebrews as "God".

I love God too Cowboy. It's the ancient Hebrew bigots I can do without.

Like Mahatma Gandhi once said, "I like your Jesus, it's your Christians I can live without".

It's a shame you can't find a way to love God without having to use religion to pass judgment on the relationship between other people and God. You drive a wedge between yourself and other people who love God by simply refusing to recognize their love of God.

I even recognize that many atheists love God, even though they don't believe in "god". Because god isn't an egotistical being. If you love life then you love God, it's really as simple as that. There's just no need to create barriers between people using religious dogma as a wedge. That serves no good purpose as far as I can see.

If someone on earth told you to do something. Do you not do it or not do because it either feels right to you or it doesn't? If someone asked you to do something, would you do it even though it felt horribly wrong? And if yes, then why would you do such a thing?

And yes that is why we want to obey our father, we feel it's right. We have been touched by the holy spirit and shown things unknown to others until if and when they do the same thing and allow the holy ghost to abode with them in their heart.

Yes I would be willing to give my life to others as Jesus did, but hopefully that'll never happen. Jesus DIED for you. Jesus didn't have to feel the pain of death, he didn't have to feel the sorrow of people, he didn't have to feel anything negative to him. But he willingly did as such. He took on the form of a man so that you could achieve heaven. He was a carpenter for a little bit of his life, but other then that Jesus didn't "work" he lived on the faith that our father would provide him with what he needed as he was spreading the new covenant between man and God. So no men and women don't exhibit this every day.

No judgement passed. I love you just as much as I love a preacher, a priest, a full blown out complete follower of the bible. I would you treat you no differently then any of the following mentioned and or anyone else. Because you refuse to believe, because you're a head strong person doesn't make you any different of a person personality wise. You are who you are. It's people like you that drive the wedge between us. It's you that feels we're judging you. We're not judging anyone, we our selves are failures with sin every day, we are no greater then you or any one else. So again you're merely trying to find a scapegoat and put the blame on someone else.