Personally, I wish the only mention of "racism" was in history books.
Right along w/ people believing the Earth was flat. It is a stupid thing humanity should grow the hell out of.
We should all be delighted in our differences, not belittle others for theirs. Humans come in so many wonderful colors, shapes, sizes and cultures. This fact should be an endless source of wonder and delight, not scorn and prejudice.

I think people believing in racial difference is going to far outlast the flat earth theory, but I agree that the IDEAL would be that racism not exist to be talked about

I sure hope so, since some racial differences are real.

Okay, I'm sorry for misrepresenting your meaning. Its just that I'm a bit worn thin from talking to people (not you) who think the answer to racism is to deny that we each have a genome. I agree, the ideal would be for us all to realize how unimportant race is, and I agree that ain't happening soon.

Are you sure? I mean, I can see that maybe this is true. But it also seems quit possible to me that people had been lying about being discriminated against before the term came into usage.



I agree that this also happens.



Its a fact that some people lie about being discriminated against. Its also a fact that sometimes people imagine racism where there is none.

I don't want to diminish the importance of racism, nor the harmful effects of racism, and I don't want to support those who try to undermine the valid claims of racism by trumpeting this idea.

I think what we have to do is look at the facts on a case by case basis, and not necessarily believe that racism played a role just because it was claimed, nor discount that racism played a role just because someone said 'race card'.






LOL, seriously? Do you think that if a person "feels profiled", they are a greater authority on whether they were profiled than an outside party looking at evidence?

Thats a great philosophical position for a self-fulfilling assertion. Its akin to circular logic.

Do I really need to provide a counter example? And how many counter examples will I need to provide?

You used the word 'prove'.... we can 'prove' very little in this world - thats not the point. You don't require the person who lies about being a victim of racism to 'prove' that they are, but you want to require 'proof' from someone who can reasonably conclude that racism did not play a role?

Here's an example:

There is a store that I dropped in on at least 15 times a week (some weeks) for about 3 years (especially before, during, and/or after work...). Its managed and staffed by a family of some ethnicity I never knew - but I'm pretty sure they were some variety of middle-easterners. Their clients are about 1/2 african-descended, 1/4 mexican-american, 1/4 european-descended.

The very first time I entered that store, I walked in fairly quickly, right past the counter, and they all started yelling at me: "Take off your backpack! Put it behind the counter!" They were quite aggressive and rude, and I think they were stressed by the large number of people in the store and the large line. I took off my backpack and put it behind the counter, though its a bad neighborhood and the store is frequented by crack heads and alcoholics and I didn't feel my laptop was secure.

During the following 3 years, I entered that store quite possibly 10,000 times. (It was a very convenient place to grab a super cheap, healthy-ish snack, and my work burned a lot of calories).

During many of those visits, at least one person would enter the store who (as a transient) had never been there before, or (as a mentally disabled, or simply absent minded) had completely forgotten that they needed to leave their bags behind the counter.

Being very slightly offended at the way they yelled at me, I paid attention to see if they truly expected everyone who came in the store to leave their bag. They did. Every single person.


Of course there were dozens of times where people claimed/complained/whined/mumbled/yelled etc that the only reason they were being asked to leave their bag is because they were black and these [insert racist slur] shopkeepers were obviously racist.

I don't know if the shopkeepers were racist against blacks. I never saw any evidence, I saw them being amazingly patient, kind, considerate, and generous with some very difficult homeless people (including blacks) who came in the store.

But that doesn't matter...the bag policy enforcement was absolutely not enforced with any degree of racial selectiveness.

Now, are you looking for a way to rationalize away the basic fact that those dozens of people were simply wrong when they claimed to be victims of racism?

But they weren't simply wrong were they?
You stated yourself you cannot know if they were not racist. You also cannot verify how they were treated when you weren't there.

So basically you proved nothing except your view of the situation.

If a person says they are discriminated against, it is almost inhuman to assume they are faking what they perceive. It is wiser to concede they feel what they feel and address the issue fairly.

No, actually, they were. They were claiming that they were asked to put their backpacks because they were black. This was clearly not true. They were playing the race card.




In this situation, that has nothing to do with whether or not they were asked to put their because they were black.



For some of these people, I was there they whole time they were, during what was obviously their first visit to the store.






Most of the time, I would agree with you. An exception might be when dealing with an individual who has played the race card repeatedly in the past.

But you are talking about making an assumption, while I am talking about looking at evidence. Its not at all inhumane to conclude that someone is playing the race card, when you have reason to.





In a sense I agree, while asserting that this is a false dichotomy - you can reasonably conclude that someone is, in fact, (with honest misunderstanding) playing the race card while also being sensitive to their perception and their feelings.

This doesn't apply when people are simply lying.

I disagree and this is still your view.

You are not able to give their view.

Its not my 'view' that the owners of the store asked every single person to put their backpack behind the counter (while I was in the store) - it is a fact. Or we in some kind of weird lala land where there are no facts, there are only 'views'? lololol

I don't need to read their minds to know that they are wrong.


What should we do about people who make false accusations of rape? Insist that doubting someone of a rape charge is a horrible thing to do? Deny forensics experts and detectives from researching the matter?

I've known one community of people (they happened to be blue collar workers, caucasian, living in a region that some would call 'the south' (but not the deep south)) for whom what you say is true. They basically thought that 'racism' was a thing of the past, and any mention of racism was labelled playing the race card.

Their position was irrational, inhumane, it required them to ignore some obvious facts, and it contributed to the propagation of injustice.

And then I've known a few communities of people (one was almost exclusively black, another was largely liberal, and there've been others) who were all to happy to conclude that any accusation of racism simply must be legit.

So I'm not so sure which of these communities is more representative of 'america' as a whole.



Another way I can see truth in what you are saying:



Is if you mean: there is always at least one or two wing-nuts on the sidelines who throws this out there, no matter how absurd it might be in the circumstances. I can see that, but i'm not sure that reflects america as a whole, either. Maybe if I watched the same TV you watched, or read the same newspapers, I would have a more similar view.

I was really only talking about in the forums,,,lol

Yes there are differences. And it should be a source of fun, interest, and delight.
For example, my roommate in college used to joke about being so black skinned, in a darkened room, if he closed his eyes and didn't smile, he was invisable. I was so white I used to say "Just call me Casper".
Recognition of superficial differences doesn't have to be mean.

but those arent really racial difference, those were individual differences between your roommate and yourself

there are dark caucasians and there are very fair 'black' people

Yes, some people were "simply wrong" in their assumption of "racism".
However, I would cut them a little slack because they've probably experienced real "racism" a number of times before and now it's a knee-jerk reaction to any inconvenience. I'm not saying it's right and people should be able to differentiate between past and current situations. But how many people think past their knee-jerk reactions?

ummm...Those were both, "racial" and individual differences. Those aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
In any case, what's your point?

my point is that there is a difference between a personal observation between individuals and an observation making claims against an entire RACE

Oh, my bad. Yes, in these forums, it does seem that way. I agree.

I wonder if it might be because some (anti-obama, pro-tea party, etc etc) people are fed up with being called racist for holding specific views which may not always be motivated by racism.

This is very interesting. I'm not aware of any absolute, categorical racial differences which apply to all individual members a 'race'.

On the other hand, most african descended people are far darker than most european descended people, when looking at groups this difference is real.

So what we have is two people whose individual differences matches the overall trend in racial differences...I think thats fair game to use the label 'racial difference', but I'm open to a more refined/specific use of language.