What I think about medical science today is based on what medical
science was like in the past.

http://www.michaelcrichton.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html
-------------------------------------------------------------
In past centuries, the greatest killer of women was fever following
childbirth . One woman in six died of this fever. In 1795, Alexander
Gordon of Aberdeen suggested that the fevers were infectious processes,
and he was able to cure them. The consensus said no. In 1843, Oliver
Wendell Holmes claimed puerperal fever was contagious, and presented
compelling evidence. The consensus said no. In 1849, Semmelweiss
demonstrated that sanitary techniques virtually eliminated puerperal
fever in hospitals under his management. The consensus said he was a
Jew, ignored him, and dismissed him from his post. There was in fact no
agreement on puerperal fever until the start of the twentieth century.
Thus the consensus took one hundred and twenty five years to arrive at
the right conclusion despite the efforts of the prominent "skeptics"
around the world, skeptics who were demeaned and ignored. And despite
the constant ongoing deaths of women.
-------------------------------------------------------------

They are wrong today, it's just a matter of time before they admit it.
Read Professor Duesberg's work on Cancer and AIDS and you will find
yourself questioning everything you know to be true on both subjects.

I have read this before spider. Thanks.

My info is from the CDC, The WHO, and the ASHA. Mostly the CDC, becuse
that is where it is reported.
Kat

scttrbrain,

The CDC is now talking about "cofactors". Too many people have HIV for
their whole live without ever getting AIDS. Every fews months they make
another guess at why some people are "immune" to HIV. I know you are
passionate about the subject and so am I. We both want to save lives, I
just don't believe that the science supports the theory that HIV causes
AIDS. There are many reasons that show why it can't, if you want to
read about them: http://www.duesberg.com/papers/chemical-bases.html

http://www.avert.org/statsum.htm

CDC REPORT, through the end of 2005 (for USA only)

437,983 living with AIDS

44% Black
35% White
19% Hispanic
1% Other

77% living with AIDS are male

HOW CONTRACTED:

IDU (injected drug use) – 20% men 33% women
Men with Men sex 59%
Heterosexual sex 11% men 67% women
Both: Men with Men
& IDU 8% men 0% women

Yes. In the USA, the UK, a number of other European countries, and other
parts of the world such as Latin America, HIV and AIDS have affected
young gay men more than any other group of people. In the UK and USA
especially, the percentage of young gay men who have been infected with
HIV and the percentage with AIDS are much higher than those among other
groups such as heterosexual people or children.
In the USA, it is estimated that nearly 300,000 men were living with
AIDS at the end of 2002, and another 420,000 had died. Almost 60% of men
diagnosed with HIV/AIDS in the USA were probably exposed to the virus
through male-to-male sexual contact.1
NOW IT’S TIME TO THINK…

Total number living and dead of AIDS = 720,000.00, almost 60% of
whom were probably exposed through male to male contact. (NOTE THE
WORD PROBABLY)
That means that 432,000 men had at least one male to male contact.
No one can say these were all homosexual males. NO ONE! Let’s
examine this more closely.

The statistics (How Contracted) above are from 2005, the ones in
this paragraph are from 2002, but none the less take a hard look at the
statistics from 2005.

Of those living with AIDS in 2005 67% are women, who contracted
AIDS through heterosexual intercourse – while only 11% are men via the
same avenue.

Homosexuals, most specifically male homosexuals are not know for
having sex with women. That either means that 11% of the men gave 67%
of the women AIDS or that not all men who had sex (at least one time)
with another man are homosexual.

Now, there may be some out there who will consider this and say, OH
well then they must all be bi-sexual.

Well, I don’t want to alarm all of you out here in cyberspace, but
in the real world, you need to be checking out the statistics on
sexuality between the ages of 12 and say 22. Yes you will find them to
be old anywhere from the 1980’s through 1996 or so. But they are an
eye opener. In fact while you’re at it, take a look at the suicide
rate, the drug use rate, and the drop out rate of those who are
homosexual. WHY? Because included with all these statistics are the
reasons why they are so high – BIGOTRY AND HATE AND MISCONCEPTION, not
just from the kids, from the teachers, from parents, from school nurses
and counselors.

HOW DARE ANY ONE LOOK AT STATISTICS AND MAKE JUGEDGEMENT SUCH AS THE
ONES DISPLAYED HERE. There is a very clear case of bias throughout
this thread.

I am so deeply saddened that there is so little concern given to
those who suffer and so much concern to attribute and write off that
suffering based of a bias, on hate and bigotry.

Look at the world statistics that the CDC offers, look at the number
of children orphaned by this disease, starving - and how does your
bias serve them?

Look at the spread of this disease in the last 3 years, how it is
suddenly affecting our teenagers AGAIN, because there are those who do
not want the gay community recognized in their public schools, not even
if it is to educate those who are only experimenting with their
sexuality. And they do experiment, and they are getting AIDS and they
are not ‘bad kids’, they are kids, who are not being taught
tolerance by experiencing it in their day to day lives.

SHAME and sadness is what I feel right now and disgust for the
shallowness of intelligent minds.

Spider you don't want to save lives, you want to lay blame. You want to
believe that HIV is condition that is undiagnosed and that many live
with. But only if they are not promiscuous. That in promiscuity lies
the diseases that connect HIV and AIDS. According to your particular
set of "approved" such promiscuity is rampant within the homosexual
community. Yet what statistics are you viewing, that are less that
three years old and encompass the millions of homosexuals and their
lifestyles of this country. Share this for I can not find and I know
not one single person who was every asked to take such survey.

Your statistics, further allow you to blame and attribute an entire
world wide epidemic to those horrible promiscuous homosexuals.

When you find a set of statistics that suits your purpose, you better be
prepared to fight statistics from a thousand other sources. And you
better have numbers of those studied, who and how the study was
conducted, and the dates.

AND while you're doing that, remember all those statistics that have
names and faces and families and how many of them are casualties of this
epidemic and how many are children, our children, our future. And for
them you hold a flag of blame, and how does that comfort, and how does
that force our government to take steps to confront all the issues????

Red - Standing O

I was so saddened by this thread and couldn't bring myself to respond.
Thank you. This affects everyone!

A friend of mine had an assignment in a 4th year Psychology class ... it
was designed to show that you can make statistics prove anything you
want. Her paper proved that black licorice cured migraines...I don't
remember the others she mentioned from her class ...

Food for thought ... I think of statistics like knowledge.... a little
can be downright dangerous.

Yes ArtGurl, thank-you, that was one of the biggest points I was trying
to make. However, statistics can be a useful tool when they are
properly conducted for a specific reason AND if they are recognized as
useful, only for that purpose. And of course, there will always be a
way to refute them.

To be honest, I have not read every word written here, but I just want
to relate how wide-spread this is. I live in a very rural area of Pa.
More than 10 years ago I worked for a couple of dentists in one of the
neighboring towns. At that time, I was surprised to see the number of
patients that were HIV-infected or had Aids in just this little
back-woods area. I now work for a company that supplies long term
personal care homes in the surrounding 7 counties. What I've seen in
just my work environment shows how wide-spread this is. ArtGurl is
right, it does affect everyone.

To be honest, I have not read every word written here, but I just want
to relate how wide-spread this is. I live in a very rural area of Pa.
More than 10 years ago I worked for a couple of dentists in one of the
neighboring towns. At that time, I was surprised to see the number of
patients that were HIV-infected or had Aids in just this little
back-woods area. I now work for a company that supplies long term
personal care homes in the surrounding 7 counties. What I've seen in
just my work environment shows how wide-spread this is. ArtGurl is
right, it does affect everyone.

Redykeulous,

"Spider you don't want to save lives, you want to lay blame."

You don't even read the links I have been posting, you just attack me
from your ivory tower of ignorance. Lay blame for what? I agree with
Professor Duesberg that AIDS is a lifestyle disease, not contagious.
You don't even understand my position. I'm not blaming anyone except
the medical community for accepting so many obvious flaws in the "HIV
causes AIDS" myth. I don't care how promiscuous anyone is, that's not
my business. What I am saying is that people are being misdiagnosed and
given a deadly drug, which kills them. Show me one child in the US who
has died of AIDS and didn't have AZT in their veins. HIV IS A HARMLESS
RETROVIRUS, WHICH IS TREATED WITH A DEADLY DRUG, RESULTING IN MILLIONS
OF DEATHS. I DON'T FREAKING CARE HOW MANY LOVERS A HOMOSEXUAL HAS AND
SAID THAT EARLIER, I ONLY MENTIONED IT BECAUSE THEIR ****LIFESTYLE****
IS DIRECTLY LINKED TO AIDS.

Oh let me guess "Statistics can show anything". That's hilarious. Just
like the medical community, you would rather watch milliions of innocent
people be killed by "anti-viral ****tails" (ie checmicals so toxic that
the company never tested them on rats) than have an open and honest
debate about the real cause of AIDS.

The statistics are misleading, many of the people in the 1980's with
AIDS also had HIV, so a false link was created. Now people who are
perfectly healthy, but HIV positive, are treated with deadly AZT. You
probably still don't understand the position. You will probably never
spend any time researching the position for yourself, so you can see
that I have raised valid points. I shouldn't even have wasted my time
posting a response to you, I don't think I will make this mistake again.

ArtGurl and Redykeulous,

I hope that the two of you will show enough decency to actually read
what someone posts and perhaps even read the links they post before you
attack them in the future. Neither of you has any idea of my position,
partially because it's a very complex subject and I probably haven't
done a good job explaining it. But if you actually read the links I've
been posting, you would understand and wouldn't have accused me of
wanting to lay blame. OH....My flesh wants me to post some things, but
I'm fighting it. I'm not going to allow your flippantly cruel words to
drag me into the gutter, but part of me wants to.

Spider, do you not see some of the cruelty that you impose on some
family member of an aids patient that has died of this terrible desease?
As for some of your links; these can be and sometimes are from people
that have an agenda to lessen, or blame a government or science for a
reality. as I said before, this is a dangerous thing you do.

Have I ever known someone that died of aids that had HIV before? The
answer is yes. Before it became something that most could afford,
placebos were given. (NO AZT GIVEN!) I have seen many that have died
from this desease. 3 just this year.

There is a look that this desease has. In no other illness is there a
recognizable look as aids has. Not cancer, not any deadly illness.

When I said the initials of my searches, I left out many recognizable
links I also use. I use only those that are a mass of many, not one
person.

Red, love you girl. Hang in there. I am very passionate about this. Go
into a clinic, and volunteer. It is so sad to see all those people that
come in scared and helpless. It is a desease that is killing so many
people, gay, lesbian, bi, hetero-KIDS!!
Kat

The thing that made me start this thread is this:
My niece and I were talking night before last and yesterday. She and her
brother went through sex ed; neither of which learned what thet should
know. She said they separtate the boys from the girls and they only
learn about their own bodies.
She was taught that aids is only caught by sex! She had no clue that
there were other ways! She is 15.
She said that she is starting to learn what her parents will not teach
her because she is too young from her friends. Friends that learned the
same place that she is. Friends, and an improper sex ed class. I was
shocked. When I was in school, we were taught together about the "birds
and the bees" and the such.
Kat

My stomach is in knots right now. I can't believe the posts I'm seeing.
When the truth comes out, remember I what I said and think about the
millions of deaths that happened because people refused to believe the
science behind the myth.

Spider, I fail to see where I have attacked you in my posts.

Wed 06/27/07 08:00 AM
My stomach is in knots right now. I can't believe the posts I'm seeing.
When the truth comes out, remember I what I said and think about the
millions of deaths that happened because people refused to believe the
science behind the myth.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

If and when that ever happens, I will remember you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On the other hand spider; you can talk til you are blue in the face,
your belief. I respect your right to do so. As I have great respect for
you as well.

But, your theory or theirs, is not correct. It cannot be. I personally
know people in my life that were not treated and went from HIV to Aids.
I know people that were HIV and got treated and 15 years later, still
only have HIV. I know people that got tested too late and get the
****tail with Aids and 20 years later still have Aids and are living
well, and look as healthy as anyone. These drugs are saving these people
lives and giving hope to those without hope. I know people that are
still alive after 21 years on these very drugs you blame! The
differences in their appearance and quality of life is incredible. Yes,
they still have a sentence of death, (but, don't we anyway from birth?)
but later rather than sooner. But rather than say they are dying with
Aids, they are living with Aids.
Kat

Hi beautiful lady. You never attack anyone.
Kat

Your man Dr Peter Duesburg also says that recreational and aphrodisiac
drugs and AZT causes AIDS.
Kat

Artgurl, my dearest u didn't fail in anything because you simply didn't
attack anybody. You just made a comment with regard of how statistics
can be misused. And that is so true.
I haven't being following this thread, but both artgurl and Mrs. red are
very decent ladies.
NOw mrs. red is just defending her point of view
I think people should know more about other people before saying
anything against each other.