Im talking about inside the U.S.

In the U.S., if we have the Separation of Church and State, then Islam is outlawed because their religion is the same as their politics, they do not separate them.

'suspects are innocent until proven guilty'
- the 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments to the U.S. Constitution

Yet even in the U.S. there is not a true separation of Church and State. So would the following documents also become illegal because of their religious references? I doubt it since these are the basis for the United States. Yet if all man made religion is to be removed and a course as you suggest taken then you lose the very documents that created your nation.



From Declaration of Independence

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.




From the Constitution

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,


From United States Articles of Confederation

In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the State of Pennsylvania the ninth Day of July in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven Hundred and Seventy-eight, and in the Third Year of the independence of America.

On your currency

In God we trust

.....................................................


Separation of Church and State means that the Church shall not interfere in matters of State and State shall not interfere in matters of Church. The Church of England, The Vatican nor any other religious body is NOT allowed to chose the path of the nation. Yet this basic concept is broken everytime a religious leader from simple priest talking to congregation and up uses his / her sermon / speech to sway people in their decisions regarding the future of their nation. There is and cannot ever be true separation of Church and State. Because one group of people chose to use the basic tenets of their belief to form the basis of their system of self rule does not make it wrong ..... just different.

'Separation of church and state' is a nice legal and / or conceptual fiction, but in everyday life its a practical impossibility. One of the causal factors for this as operational reality is that each of them need the other in order to have a foil against which to make their points and / or appeals. If one of them didn't exist, the other would create it out of necessity. They're two sides of the same coin, and neither will lead anyone to the mythical-mystical 'promised land' of 'salvation' - whether 'political' or 'spiritual'. There's no 'collective salvation', and that's what both of these entities like to sell - they just package the product differently for their respective markets. It still boils down to a legalized shell game with no pea under any of the shells ... both of 'em are sucker bets.

seperation of church and state refers to GOVERNMENT , not individuals,,

Islam as a religion is certainly fine. The problems arise when Sharia
law such as stoning to death, women's enforced subservience,
prohibitions on marriage outside the faith, wife beating, female
ritual mutilation, prohibition on women's education, death fatwas
for cartoonists and prohibition of teaching other religious beliefs
conflict with U.S. laws. Here in the U.S. our laws take precedence
but in many Islamic theocracies such as Iran laws which we find
abhorrent and even inhumane are the law of the land.



Americans are concerned that proponents of Sharia law may attempt
to affect U.S. jurisprudence in a negative way or try to force
abhorrent laws on the rest of us. It is a legitimate concern
although probably somewhat paranoid.

Same issue pertains to Christians and other religions who would try
to impose their morality and legal interpretations on everyone. We
live in a secular society which respects all religions but does not
legislate law on the basis of any one religion. Our laws are intended
to be fair for all americans.

including the buddhists, wiccans, and atheists.

WOW! SOMEONE IS STUCK IN THE 1800s NOW!

I have seen this logic pointed at topics like this one before. This is America, NOT the rest of the world. Hell, a courthouse in Tennessee recently had to remove 'the ten commandments' from their entry becasue of separation of Church and State.

Islam is not about self rule or self governance. It is a repeat of the Catholic Church Circa 1000AD to 1200AD where the Church WAS everything from Governance to Banking (the Knights Templar) to Military. Islam wants to be what the Catholic Church was, the ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL RULERS OF EVERYTHING! Their Clerics ARE above the law because they ARE the law.

You need to get closer to those books you seem to be preaching from. You seem to be skimming over and over looking a lot.

This nation was founded by Christians (Quakers, Puritans, and Anglicans) but the principles this nation was founded under was more than Christian.

Islam in itself is a violation of our constitution and way of life as free willed people. There is no such thing as Free Will under Islam. Would you willingly give up your freedom to placate Islam?

I sure in the hell will not! F Islam! Either it tosses aside the Quar-an and embrace more tolerant teachings or they can just flat out PISS OFF! What part of "They have a Holy War going on against ALL Infidels (non believers)" do you not want to understand?

Tolerance is granted where tolerance is given. Islam is not tolerant.

PERIOD! ENOUGH SAID!

funny how I know muslims who are nothing but tolerant and respectful to me,,, I guess they dont understand the TRUE teachings of Islam that all the Islam experts here do,,,

The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful tolerant moral people.

But a very significant minority numbering in the millions are killing people who merely believe differently than they do and EVERYONE has a responsibility to stand up vigorously in opposition to their backwards ignorant violent and misanthropic twisted theology.

I agree

So by your very own post, you are now saying that this country was indeed founded on Christian principles...yet your beloved leader says it was not. Who do you believe??...a document that has been around for over 200 years, or a blowhard politician who recently emerged on the scene and set himself up as the Messiah??

And, as its been pointed out, the Separation of Church and State would negate everything Islamic!!
They would not be allowed, under such a law to practice their religion, or participate in U.S. politics.

Paranoia will destroy ya!!!

Sorry couldn't help myself. Do you remember that old song?

Anyway, if we limit one kind of church, we have to limit them all or not limit them all. There is no gray area on this Constitutional right. Religions have freedom in this country to build churches and minister to the people who want to follow. Period, no buts about it.

i call it pulling the wool over your eyes...lol

You have to draw the line somewhere when a religion such as Islam is a danger to the people.This country never has been a country where you can claim(insert idea here)say it is a religion,and think you can do what what ever you want,say what ever you want,and threaten anyone you want in the name of your religion.

David Koresh was obviously a very deranged,extremely dangerous,and psychopathic person using religion as a excuse to practice his warped ideas of his perfect world.He thought he was a God and the world was coming to a end.He was obviously a danger to those around him,his community,and the general public in his state.He should have not been allowed to go as far as he did with the police knowing what they knew.If they would have stopped him in his early stages many people would have not of died including those bombed in Oklahoma by Timothy mcveigh who claimed the reason for his bombing the Federal building was in direct response to the Waco siege.


Muslims have a right to practice their religion.Muslims do not have a right to threaten American citizens with death and destruction including those who live here.

Like the expert who wants the Mosque built at ground zero who calls for Sharia law.

Tell me what are the true teachings of Islam?

Without Paraphrasing and "Interpretation."

Well, Dragoness is onto something...ban all religions. If we have to ban them all just to get rid of Islam, then its a good idea.

My beloved leader?? Uh last I looked Prime Minister Harper never commented on the founding of the United States.

The 200 year old document in question is just that, a document. Written by mere mortals to guide themselves and their descendants.

Second Complete Separation of Church and State would negate Any and All religious references etc, Not just Islamic. Still continuing with your line of logic All religions would not be allowed, under law to practice their religion, or participate in U.S. politics.

Thus why those who wrote the Constitution and other documents related to the founding of the United States Guaranteed that ALL BE FREE TO PRACTICE THEIR BELIEFS !!

Islam itself isn't a terror group any more than any other religion. Some of it's adherents are. The Weathermen, Red Brigades, Front de Liberation du Quebec, Shining Path are not Muslim / Islamic yet they are terror groups.

So now you dont like the idea of oulawing all religions??
If it was only Christianity to be outlawed, you'd approve of it??

But since Islam is included, you are against it?? LOL....cant have your cake and eat it too.

That 200 year old document has guided this country through thick and thin....but Oblowme has'nt.

ask a muslim,,,,