First of all, we went to war with the Taliban when they controlled Afganistan which mean we went to war the Afganistan.

**** happens, its war get over it. How many millions or even billions were save by taking that Genocidal leader and government out of power?

You don't think the Taliban shared any responsibility for 9/11? Really?

no, what i said is that Iraq had nothing to with it

And i've talked about that before. Not directly, but Saddam did direct money and praise twords Terrorist groups.

Not to mention that before Saddam kicked out the UN inspectors he did have some components to construct a WMD. Not to mention the genocide and crimes against humanity that he and his regime was committing on a daily basis.

If Saddam obtained Nuclear Waeapons we would have been ****ed. Saddam held a grudge because we kicked his *** in the 90's. Saddam also funnelled money and weapons to terrorist originizations. What do you think he would have done if he actually obtained a WMD? He would have attacked us. It was worth the risk to go in to to make sure he didn't and to take him out of power.

so we should attack every country that "if" they had the ability might or might not attack us? Boy, scare tacts do work....

If they sponsored terrorism or terrorists and there was credible evidence that they would attack an allied nation then hell yes.

From the perspective of SOME ,,,israeli has committed acts of terro and we CERTAINLY sponsor them AND history dictates that we will attack another nation....
We didnt belong in Iraq,,it was a serious blunder made , in my opinion, out of emotionalism and impulse rather than logic and common sense

Israel never was involved in terrorism, they have and ore protecting their country from attack constantly from countries that want them all dead.

semantics,, one persons freedomfighter is anothers terrorist,,,,

The International Tribunal over the Childhood Affected by War and Poverty of the Mission Diplomatique Internationale Humanitaire RWANDA 1994, through its International President, Sergio Tapia and International Human Rights Prosecutor of the International Tribunal of Conscience, reported to the international community to the First ruling against Crimes against Genocide and on Palestinian Children in the Gaza Strip into the largest concentration camp in the world today is the most densely populated place on the planet has only 360 km2, where 1,500,000 people live in which 50 percent are children and 80 percent are below the poverty level, the International Tribunal of Conscience, composed of 14 prosecutors on Human Rights, 11 countries, 9 in Latin America, Africa and Asia denounces heinous crimes and the systematic advancement of infanticide against children in the Gaza Strip by the Israeli army....

this is from a pakistani paper, Im sure israeli papers would put a different spin on it,, but Im reminded of the old adage "when lions write history, hunters will cease to be heros.."

Its all perspective and we should be careful about ignoring the mote in our own eyes while prosecuting or attacking others for theirs...

What on earth are you talking about?The Taliban are all but finished.Haven't you been watching the news for the last 8 years?The United states military has taken over nearly every city in Iraq and Afganistan and continues to hold them.Everywhere we fight them they lose.They have little or no power,no leadership,and are getting their a** kicked like a pinata at a Cinco de mayo party.

Saddam wasn't threatening us???You can't possibly be serious.


We will chase [Americans] to every corner at all times. No high tower of steel will protect them against the fire of truth."
Saddam Hussein, Baghdad Radio, February 8, 1991.

Iraq Masses Troops Against Kuwait, October 1994
"Does [America] realize the meaning of every Iraqi becoming a missile that can cross to countries and cities?"
Saddam Hussein, September 29, 1994

U.S. District Court Judge Harold Baer, Jr.



This lead to the following headline from the most unimpeachable name in news, CBS: "Court Rules: Al Qaida, Iraq Linked."

Thus, there is abundant and undeniable evidence that Saddam Hussein provided money, diplomatic services, shelter, medical care, and training to terrorists of every stripe, including those complicit in the 1993 WTC bombing and - according to a Clinton-appointed federal judge - the September 11 attacks. The Iraqi dictator aided al-Qaeda and other global terrorists who murdered Americans, both at home and abroad.


The White House, in a Sep. 12, 2002 report titled "A Decade of Deception and Defiance: Saddam Hussein's Defiance of the United Nations," stated:
"Iraq is one of seven countries that have been designated by the Secretary of State as state sponsors of international terrorism...:

In 1993, the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) directed and pursued an attempt to assassinate, through the use of a powerful car bomb, former U.S. President George Bush and the Emir of Kuwait. Kuwaiti authorities thwarted the terrorist plot and arrested 16 suspects, led by two Iraqi nationals.

Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians.50

Iraq shelters several prominent Palestinian terrorist organizations in Baghdad, including the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), which is known for aerial attacks against Israel and is headed by Abu Abbas, who carried out the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro and murdered U.S. citizen Leon Klinghoffer.51

Iraq shelters the Abu Nidal Organization, an international terrorist organization that has carried out terrorist attacks in twenty countries, killing or injuring almost 900 people. Targets have included the United States and several other Western nations. Each of these groups have offices in Baghdad and receive training, logistical assistance, and financial aid from the government of Iraq.52

In April 2002, Saddam Hussein increased from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian suicide/homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding suicide/homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment. Payments are made on a strict scale, with different amounts for wounds, disablement, death as a “martyr” and $25,000 for a suicide bomber. Mahmoud Besharat, a representative on the West Bank who is handing out to families the money from Saddam, said, “You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue."53

Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret terrorist training facility in Iraq known as Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains, planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations."

What's with sooo many quotes in the posts!

These people you are defending perpetuated the single biggest transfer of wealth our country has ever seen. It was and probably will remain the most corrupt and dishonest administration in our history. They were so good at it they have you and many others blind to the fact that they don’t give a **** about you or me, the only thing they cared about was money and power.

They stole an election and have convinced you that the democratic process worked because, they said it did. They appointed their friends and family into positions of power and they robbed this country of billions of dollars and they have you saying that it is ok because it is just capitalism at work. That war was not about terrorism it was about making money. Just look at where all of the post war contracts went and who runs those companies.

They lied to you and all of us to get us there and it is a shame that they are not all in prison because, if you or I were to do some of the things these people did that is where we would be.

Here's the grounds that will make the mandate unconstitutional

NEVER BEFORE has the "commerce powers" claus been used to mandate that an individual person engage in an economic transaction with a PRIVATE COMPANY.

That should do it.

that is a good point that can be debated two ways,, one is that this doesnt MANDATE you engage with a private company, you can CHOOSE not to do so and pay directly through a tax to the government

the other is that there is no other private industry that is REQUIRED BY LAW to service you whether you can pay or not,,with the government picking up much of the remaining tab

has anyone here read the bill?


Here are some points that ARE in the bill. Verified by more than one individual...If anyone knows of an actual link to the gaint bill please post it.

Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf
That is a link to the actual health bill.

If you don't agree with what i said above. Check for your self.

Better yet, read the entire thing and then form your opinion.

But that's from July, 2009, Isaac. There is only longer a "government option".

It's all been revised since then.

I know, I'm still looking for the updated version...but it's hard to find...imagine that.

If you know of where I can get a hold of it. It would be greatly appreciated if you posted the link. (yes I have read the entire thing I may not understand it all...but enough to get an idea. i've been reading it for about 2 months now it's not that hard to read 1000 pages. 50 pages a day for 20 days....but some days i read less.

It has to be out there somewhere. lol If I see it, I'll post the link but...I haven't seen it yet.

Congrats on reading it all.

the ameican people have and well continue to allow the corrupt partys to screw up there futures because thats what they have been dueing sence before the last icy age . there sheep and so are the rest of the worlds working class . speak to them in cow if you kneed them to understand you . like , moo mooo mo moo '
sadum had some wmds because we the usa and geogre bush senior gave them to him . ourgovernment gavehim the big ok to the invasion of kuwait and saudi araba . sadaum was our ally in the area and did not give his money to terriost groups except when he needed a group thugs .
As far as the american people spitting on our politicians , all I can say is { maybe you should of been doing what they voted you all in for , represent them not the world . } don
t expect it to get better . small groups should leave now . stop corrupting our government . we want our country back you worms need to know that your payoffs are over .