Topic: State paying to rebuild a killer’s face
Dragoness's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:07 AM




I am on the fence with this one.

We cannot know how much difficulty he has everyday. As a government we should not be in the business of torture. So is he being tortured by this injury that we can probably relieve to some extent? We are still talking about a human, regardless to his crimes. And if we allow even self inflicted torture, we are being inhumane.

So again I am on the fence with this one.

In the article it says he can eat his food just needs to be pureed. Not torture in my opinion

He has trouble talking clearly. Like I said before, note pad and pencil, or learn sign language. Again not torture in my opinion.


This is where my issue is. We are not inside of him so do we or can we tell if it is??


Excellent point...

But, since when is it our government's responsibility to spend my money on his face?

This is what fundraisers, family, and friends are for.

I think this is our problem. Empathizing and sympathizing is a good thing. But we expect the government to spend money to make the world perfect. Can't expect a third party to make life perfect for everyone.


Driven, I said I was on the fence about it.

Reconstructive surgery???? I hesitate to say it is not torturous for him and if it is torturous for him then as a humane state we have to do something.

I just don't know.

I have to follow my spiritual side (not religious)and not want suffering for any of my fellow humans but it does seem extreme.

So I am on the fence still.

LOL I cannot debate this one because I see right on both sides...lol

LadyOfMagic's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:10 AM



Daryl Strenke called to his former girlfriend to come out of her Comstock mobile home so the two, who had recently broken up, could talk. Samantha "Sam" Verby told him to come inside. As Verby blurted out, "What are you doing?" Strenke aimed his 12-gauge shotgun at her head and fired, killing her.

Verby's two friends ducked for cover as Strenke then turned the gun on himself, blowing away the lower part of his face.

The crime left the Verbys without a daughter and a 7-year-old girl without her mother. But Strenke, of Turtle Lake, survived the shotgun blast, eventually pleading guilty to second-degree intentional homicide for the June 30, 2002, shooting. Strenke sustained significant injuries that make it impossible to eat or speak normally.

Later this month, the Columbia Correctional Institution inmate is expected to have the first of what likely will be a series of extensive - and expensive - surgeries to repair his shattered face, his mother, Darlene Strenke, confirmed.

The decision by the state Department of Corrections to OK the surgeries is raising questions about how far the state should go to provide medical treatment to prisoners who rely on the state for their care.

Strenke's mother is defending the decision, saying Strenke, 45, is "tortured" by his injuries. He is serving a 60-year sentence, including 30 years behind bars.

Verby's mother is unsympathetic. She said Strenke should have to live with the consequences of his crime.

"Taxpayers feel their money should go to better things than rebuilding his face," said Alice Verby, of Turtle Lake. "He did it to himself. Let him live that way."

A duty to limit suffering

Corrections spokesman John Dipko would not confirm or deny that Strenke would receive surgery, citing patient confidentiality rules.

However, Dipko emphasized that any "reconstructive surgery would be undertaken for medically necessary reasons only, not for elective purposes."

The department has a legal responsibility "to deliver adequate health care to inmates under its custody," he said, adding that "deliberate indifference to an inmate's serious medical needs" would violate the constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.

"Our actions as a correctional health care provider are consistent with this constitutional directive, including instances in which an individual is identified by an outside medical specialist as in need of reconstructive surgery to protect the individual's life and health," Dipko said.

Helen Potts of Physicians for Human Rights said there are other reasons the department may be obliged to provide the care.

"Doctors have an ethical duty to prevent and limit suffering of patients in their care, and a duty to practice medicine in a neutral way without fear or favor," said Potts, an attorney and human-rights expert at the Cambridge, Mass.-based group. "And under international human-rights law, governments are obligated to respect the right to health and refrain from limiting access to medical care for prisoners."

Weighing the need - and the cost

State Rep. Ann Hraychuck, D-Balsam Lake, who was the sheriff of Polk County in 2002 and helped prosecute Strenke, said she sees both sides. Taxpayers don't want their hard-earned money wasted, but the state must care for people in its custody, she said.

"I do understand that institutions are responsible for providing necessary medical treatment," Hraychuck said, noting that as sheriff, she ran the Polk County Jail. "Now my job is to protect taxpayers ... and make sure they're getting the best bang for their buck."

In the end, Hraychuck said, she trusts Department of Corrections Secretary Rich Raemisch, former Dane County sheriff, made the right decision. Given the budget cuts across state government, Hraychuck said, "I can't imagine that the secretary of the Department of Corrections would OK any kind of treatments or surgery that isn't absolutely necessary."

Attempts by the Wisconsin State Journal to determine how much the facial reconstruction might cost were unsuccessful.

Asked to estimate the cost of such procedures, UW Hospital spokeswoman Lisa Brunette said it would be impossible without a physical examination and knowing the patient's detailed medical information. But she hinted it could be expensive.

"Complicated reconstructions for severe injuries in particular very often present unexpected developments all along the way," Brunette said. "I don't think we can responsibly provide even a ballpark estimate at this stage of the process."

'They're still a human being'

Without surgery, Darlene Strenke said, her son would continue to struggle to speak and eat. She said his speech is nearly impossible to understand, and his food must be pureeed.

"He doesn't have any teeth. He doesn't have a roof in his mouth, and he's only got part of a nose," she said.

Verby said alleviating Strenke's suffering at a time her family continues to struggle with its own loss doesn't seem fair. Her husband, Larry, was the first on the scene, running from the family owned Staples Lake Bar near Samantha's home. Her granddaughter was just a few feet away when her mother was shot to death.

"It took quite a long time for her to go to sleep by herself," Verby said. "She was afraid someone else was going to shoot through her room."

Darlene Strenke admits there was a time when she would have felt the same as Alice Verby - until her own son was sent to prison.

"It doesn't matter who they are, what crimes they've committed, (prisoners) still deserve the (medical) care," she said. "They're still a human being."

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/article_ae184f7e-b5f3-11de-a4cc-001cc4c002e0.html



I just don't get it. Criminals seem to have more rights than law abiding citizens.
I personaly donn't think this guy should be giving this surgery. It doesn't affect his health at all so why should he get it.
He can still eat, so what if his food needs to be pureeed. He can still eat. So what if you can't understand what he says, give him a notebook and a pencil, Or even one better give him books to learn sign language, he has enough time on his hands to learn it.


Well..You have to remember,,it IS called "The CRIMINAL Justice System"..and now you know why.

I hear ya. Just a shame IMO

You're right it is..but the system has always been screwed up..just like what happened with the girl from the Poltergeist movie..her BF goes over to her place to strangle the life out of her and because he supposedly tried to save her they didn't throw the freakin book at him..nevermind the fact that if he didn't strangle the girl she wouldnt have needed help in the first place.

LadyOfMagic's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:14 AM
Edited by LadyOfMagic on Mon 10/12/09 09:23 AM





I am on the fence with this one.

We cannot know how much difficulty he has everyday. As a government we should not be in the business of torture. So is he being tortured by this injury that we can probably relieve to some extent? We are still talking about a human, regardless to his crimes. And if we allow even self inflicted torture, we are being inhumane.

So again I am on the fence with this one.

In the article it says he can eat his food just needs to be pureed. Not torture in my opinion

He has trouble talking clearly. Like I said before, note pad and pencil, or learn sign language. Again not torture in my opinion.


This is where my issue is. We are not inside of him so do we or can we tell if it is??


Excellent point...

But, since when is it our government's responsibility to spend my money on his face?

This is what fundraisers, family, and friends are for.

I think this is our problem. Empathizing and sympathizing is a good thing. But we expect the government to spend money to make the world perfect. Can't expect a third party to make life perfect for everyone.


Driven, I said I was on the fence about it.

Reconstructive surgery???? I hesitate to say it is not torturous for him and if it is torturous for him then as a humane state we have to do something.

I just don't know.

I have to follow my spiritual side (not religious)and not want suffering for any of my fellow humans but it does seem extreme.

So I am on the fence still.

LOL I cannot debate this one because I see right on both sides...lol

"Fellow Humans"..I hardly consider anyone who can take the life of a woman leaving her family without a child and a child without a mama,a human,monster yes,human no.

TJN's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:16 AM






I am on the fence with this one.

We cannot know how much difficulty he has everyday. As a government we should not be in the business of torture. So is he being tortured by this injury that we can probably relieve to some extent? We are still talking about a human, regardless to his crimes. And if we allow even self inflicted torture, we are being inhumane.

So again I am on the fence with this one.

In the article it says he can eat his food just needs to be pureed. Not torture in my opinion

He has trouble talking clearly. Like I said before, note pad and pencil, or learn sign language. Again not torture in my opinion.


This is where my issue is. We are not inside of him so do we or can we tell if it is??


Excellent point...

But, since when is it our government's responsibility to spend my money on his face?

This is what fundraisers, family, and friends are for.

I think this is our problem. Empathizing and sympathizing is a good thing. But we expect the government to spend money to make the world perfect. Can't expect a third party to make life perfect for everyone.


Driven, I said I was on the fence about it.

Reconstructive surgery???? I hesitate to say it is not torturous for him and if it is torturous for him then as a humane state we have to do something.

I just don't know.

I have to follow my spiritual side (not religious)and not want suffering for any of my fellow humans but it does seem extreme.

So I am on the fence still.

LOL I cannot debate this one because I see right on both sides...lol

"Fellow Humans"..I hardly consider anyone who can take the life f a woman leaving her family without a child and a child without a mama,a human,monster yes,human no.

drinker :thumbsup:

Winx's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:22 AM
"He doesn't have any teeth. He doesn't have a roof in his mouth, and he's only got part of a nose."

I think that not having a roof to your mouth and only part of a nose could be an issue. They didn't say if it's affecting his breathing.

That to me would fall under medical care. If it's just to make him handsome, it wouldn't be under medical care.

He obviously had a mental breakdown when he shot her and then himself in the face.

silly's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:23 AM
I don't think that he should get the surgery.He took the life of a woman.Now the beautiful child has no mother.He can still eat,he can just write what he has too.Its not life saving sugery that he needs,even then I don't think that he would deserve that either.He can just rote in jail as far as I'm concern.

LadyOfMagic's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:25 AM

I don't think that he should get the surgery.He took the life of a woman.Now the beautiful child has no mother.He can still eat,he can just write what he has too.Its not life saving sugery that he needs,even then I don't think that he would deserve that either.He can just rote in jail as far as I'm concern.

Exactly!

Drivinmenutz's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:37 AM






I am on the fence with this one.

We cannot know how much difficulty he has everyday. As a government we should not be in the business of torture. So is he being tortured by this injury that we can probably relieve to some extent? We are still talking about a human, regardless to his crimes. And if we allow even self inflicted torture, we are being inhumane.

So again I am on the fence with this one.

In the article it says he can eat his food just needs to be pureed. Not torture in my opinion

He has trouble talking clearly. Like I said before, note pad and pencil, or learn sign language. Again not torture in my opinion.


This is where my issue is. We are not inside of him so do we or can we tell if it is??


Excellent point...

But, since when is it our government's responsibility to spend my money on his face?

This is what fundraisers, family, and friends are for.

I think this is our problem. Empathizing and sympathizing is a good thing. But we expect the government to spend money to make the world perfect. Can't expect a third party to make life perfect for everyone.


Driven, I said I was on the fence about it.

Reconstructive surgery???? I hesitate to say it is not torturous for him and if it is torturous for him then as a humane state we have to do something.

I just don't know.

I have to follow my spiritual side (not religious)and not want suffering for any of my fellow humans but it does seem extreme.

So I am on the fence still.

LOL I cannot debate this one because I see right on both sides...lol

"Fellow Humans"..I hardly consider anyone who can take the life of a woman leaving her family without a child and a child without a mama,a human,monster yes,human no.


He is still a human. He participated in an inhuman, monstrous act, but he is still human nonetheless.

Dragoness, once again i admire your compassion for others. However, I disagree that it's the government's responsibility to pay for expensive procedures to undo damage he had done to himself while committing a criminal act.

This is for sympathizers. Not for the government.

One does have to take responsibility for himself at some point, right?

And yes, i do acknowledge that your stance is "on the fence" for this issue.

Dragoness's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:40 AM






I am on the fence with this one.

We cannot know how much difficulty he has everyday. As a government we should not be in the business of torture. So is he being tortured by this injury that we can probably relieve to some extent? We are still talking about a human, regardless to his crimes. And if we allow even self inflicted torture, we are being inhumane.

So again I am on the fence with this one.

In the article it says he can eat his food just needs to be pureed. Not torture in my opinion

He has trouble talking clearly. Like I said before, note pad and pencil, or learn sign language. Again not torture in my opinion.


This is where my issue is. We are not inside of him so do we or can we tell if it is??


Excellent point...

But, since when is it our government's responsibility to spend my money on his face?

This is what fundraisers, family, and friends are for.

I think this is our problem. Empathizing and sympathizing is a good thing. But we expect the government to spend money to make the world perfect. Can't expect a third party to make life perfect for everyone.


Driven, I said I was on the fence about it.

Reconstructive surgery???? I hesitate to say it is not torturous for him and if it is torturous for him then as a humane state we have to do something.

I just don't know.

I have to follow my spiritual side (not religious)and not want suffering for any of my fellow humans but it does seem extreme.

So I am on the fence still.

LOL I cannot debate this one because I see right on both sides...lol

"Fellow Humans"..I hardly consider anyone who can take the life f a woman leaving her family without a child and a child without a mama,a human,monster yes,human no.


Because I have to put into account that the man may have
been mentally unwell not by his own fault or whatever I cannot judge him as less than human. I was not there nor was I inside him to know intentions. It may appear obvious to us on the outside but it is never completely clear unless we can be inside of others.

franshade's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:45 AM


Because I have to put into account that the man may have
been mentally unwell not by his own fault or whatever I cannot judge him as less than human. I was not there nor was I inside him to know intentions. It may appear obvious to us on the outside but it is never completely clear unless we can be inside of others.


Taking this stance, does it not relieve the person of accepting responsibility for their actions? Making all actions just that actions, no one has to step up and accept the consequences or rewards of their actions?

He may have been mentally unwell (doubtful) as it appears to me to be premeditated and calculated (jmo).

He may have been fully mentally functional - as it appears to me as I find it premeditated and calculated. (again jmo)

TJN's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:51 AM







I am on the fence with this one.

We cannot know how much difficulty he has everyday. As a government we should not be in the business of torture. So is he being tortured by this injury that we can probably relieve to some extent? We are still talking about a human, regardless to his crimes. And if we allow even self inflicted torture, we are being inhumane.

So again I am on the fence with this one.

In the article it says he can eat his food just needs to be pureed. Not torture in my opinion

He has trouble talking clearly. Like I said before, note pad and pencil, or learn sign language. Again not torture in my opinion.


This is where my issue is. We are not inside of him so do we or can we tell if it is??


Excellent point...

But, since when is it our government's responsibility to spend my money on his face?

This is what fundraisers, family, and friends are for.

I think this is our problem. Empathizing and sympathizing is a good thing. But we expect the government to spend money to make the world perfect. Can't expect a third party to make life perfect for everyone.


Driven, I said I was on the fence about it.

Reconstructive surgery???? I hesitate to say it is not torturous for him and if it is torturous for him then as a humane state we have to do something.

I just don't know.

I have to follow my spiritual side (not religious)and not want suffering for any of my fellow humans but it does seem extreme.

So I am on the fence still.

LOL I cannot debate this one because I see right on both sides...lol

"Fellow Humans"..I hardly consider anyone who can take the life f a woman leaving her family without a child and a child without a mama,a human,monster yes,human no.


Because I have to put into account that the man may have
been mentally unwell not by his own fault or whatever I cannot judge him as less than human. I was not there nor was I inside him to know intentions. It may appear obvious to us on the outside but it is never completely clear unless we can be inside of others.

I don't remember hearing much about the case but I'm sure he underwent some type of mental health evaluation to deem he was mentally stable to go stand trial. So seeing he was convicted he must have been cleared mentally. Now if he is having issues dealing with how he looks because of the wounds he inflickted upon himself let his family raise the money to pay for the surgery.

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 10/12/09 09:59 AM
Edited by yellowrose10 on Mon 10/12/09 10:04 AM
IMO it is not torture by the prison. he did it to himself after he killed someone. education and the medical costs to do more than maintain would raise our taxes beyond belief IMO. I agree that therapy and education would be helpful but the cost to the tax payers would be out of the roof

some can't afford college or their own health care now.

tngxl65's photo
Mon 10/12/09 10:03 AM
I say this only slightly kiddingly......


Let him take another shot. Literally.

damnitscloudy's photo
Mon 10/12/09 10:05 AM
I saw a picture of the guy from the link, and it looks like he already had medical care for his face. All hes getting now is plastic surgery to make him look better.

I'm totally against this idea. He should be made to suffer for his crimes. rant

tngxl65's photo
Mon 10/12/09 10:09 AM
If he wants surgery, he should raise the money for surgery. I'd have to. It will give him something to do while he's being 'reformed'.

damnitscloudy's photo
Mon 10/12/09 10:13 AM
I don't like the way my face looks, so will the state pay for my plastic surgery too? I really doubt it.

no photo
Mon 10/12/09 12:06 PM
He made his bed now he has to lie down in it. Too effing bad his face is screwed up. Who pulled that trigger? That poor baby girl now does not have a mother because of his cruel behavior. Too many people use too many excuses to get away with murder. You take a life, I have no pity for you. Personally, too bad the dumbarse didn't blow his whole head off, not wasting our tax dollars. The people of that community need to band together and let their voices be heard.

This is a disgrace, since when does the criminal become the victim. He's no victim. he's a cold blooded killer. Some try to use the excuse of what he was going through or what he went through. Sorry, people go through a lot of horrible things and they all didn't turn into a murderer. To murder, you have to have that in your heart.

He did the crime, he's doing the time, now he needs to just deal with what he did and those saying the taxpayers should have to pay for his face to be fixed is a slap across the face. Shame on them.

grumble noway grumble

no photo
Mon 10/12/09 12:07 PM

I don't like the way my face looks, so will the state pay for my plastic surgery too? I really doubt it.

laugh rofl laugh good one and highly unlikely.

franshade's photo
Mon 10/12/09 01:08 PM
just a random thought - reconstruct his face to look like his victim - so everytime he looks in the mirror he sees her face!!! pitchfork sorry the bad in me is wanting to come out devil

yellowrose10's photo
Mon 10/12/09 01:10 PM

just a random thought - reconstruct his face to look like his victim - so everytime he looks in the mirror he sees her face!!! pitchfork sorry the bad in me is wanting to come out devil


scared but not a bad idea ... in a warped way:laughing: