yes i would love the list. And of course jesus wasn't in the old testiment, scratch what i said, i wasn't thinking. Cause Jesus is the new testiment.

no he did not fail in this job, you know of the new testiment obviousely...... so it is now your job to pursue it and learn it. Our lives and salvation in a sence is always in our hands. We can choose to do what we are suppose to, or not. But God informs us of the conciquences that come with our actions. So always remember, what you do today you have to live with for eternity.

i take back what i said bout the old testiment, my appologies for confusiong anyone if i did and saying false things. I wasn't thinking obviousely when i said what i said. There really is no real use for the old testiment other then for us to see what happens when you turn away from God. The world in the old testiment also tells us about the creation of the world. So sorry for my comment bout the old testiment in previouse post's.

Did you really just pick one line out of my whole statement?
....*sigh*....

So, let me ask you a question...
Jewish people, back in the day..
Didn't they speak Hebrew?
..but don't Hebrews follow Judiasm?
All the while being called 'blashpemers' in the eyes on Christianity?
Yet Moses, and all that stuff, came from the Hebrew's Bible, or Torah, I think it was called...

..and this excerpt..

I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, Blessed be His Name, knows all the deeds of human beings and all their thoughts, as it is written, "Who fashioned the hearts of them all, Who comprehends all their actions"

Is Psalms 33:15...

SO...
If we are to say that the Bible IS in fact the Word of God..
..wouldn't Christians be blasphemers' for changing the Hebrew's opinion?

Oh, snap...

That would mean.. we'll all be dining in 'ell tagether amigo.

just becuase they spoke hebrew does not meen they followed Judiasm.

..that may be true..
..but it certainly doesn't mean they didn't either..

well you speak english so would it be safe to assume you are english like you are doing with the people in the bible. Cause in all reality you are not english you are american, but you speak english. So just cause they spoke hebrew doesn't meen they followed judiasm.

Actually..
I'm a russian born american..
However..
I didn't write 'my bibliography' in another language..
Then have future generations 'proclaim' I was English..
Despite the fact I was Russian.

Both religions are based from the same said book..
Yet if they wrote it; followed it; worship it..
What makes Christianity so righteous and not Judiasm?

Furthermore..
I ain't assuming nada..
It's fact..
Not fiction.

no your assuming since they were hebrew they followed judiasm.

it amazes me how many people don't know shiit. And still think that what they know is all there is to know

..and your assuming they were Christian..
Even though, the book is in their language.
Written by their people.
Translated by their people.
And existed before Christianity..

So, how's that work?

and your assuming they were Christian....---- christian is followers of jesus
Even though, the book is in their language.---- this all happened in there area
Written by their people.---- same as previouse statement
Translated by their people.--- still the same
And existed before Christianity---- christianity is only the knowledge in Jesus, God, the holy ghost, and do as the bible tells us.

What in the name of the Holy Ghost are you talkin bout?
So, they, according to you, 'weren't anything'.
Just some dudes who decided, 'Hey let's make our own religion.'
'Those hebrew/judiasm dudes are way too out there for me.'

Since the Lord Jesus is the same, and will not change (13:8), then not only is our hope sure and certain, our doctrine never needs revision

I sure as heck didn't write that..
Yet, Christians did revise it..

The Hebrew Bible originally written had, I believe 24 chapters; Christian's have 46 or something. They added to the story long after it had seen its day.

Assuming they weren't either or..
One of them is lying.
Because either one added a heck of a lot more..OR
..the other left out a whole lot.

The Old Testament is the collection of books written prior to the life of Jesus but accepted by Christians as scripture. Broadly speaking, it is the same as the Hebrew Bible, however it divides and orders them differently, and varies from Judaism in interpretation and emphasis (see for example Isaiah 7:14). Several Christian denominations also incorporate additional books into their canons of the Old Testament. A few groups consider particular translations to be divinely inspired, notably the Greek Septuagint, the Aramaic Peshitta, and the English King James Version.

It all derived from Hebrew Judiasm...
Then to differentiate themselves; they added more.
Which is probably why Christians are blasphemers in their eyes.

Judiasm started before/during the time of Jesus.

Christians formed some 100 years after his death.

So it may be wrong to assume they were Judiasm believers.
But they sure as smack weren't formed and united because of the Romans and there extermination of the world. (So to speak)

Deeper study:

Did you know that both Paul and James were very much aposed to their beliefs on who Jesus/God really was?

So quick summary:

Christianity started some time in the 1st century AD.

The difficult thing about it, is that there were many differing sects, and the belief that most Christians hold about it being a unified belief system is actually quite wrong.

It wasn't till after 300 AD that the Romans had sufficiently killed off many of the other sects to unite most Christians.

Here are just a few of the 1st and 2nd Century Christian flavors:

Apollinarianism
Alogi
Arianism
Docetism
Donatism
Ebionites
Gnosticism
Manicheaism
Marcion
Monarchianism
Montanism
Nestorianism
Pelagianism

There are actually more, but many of them are lost due to the killing practices of disagreeing, competing Christian sects.

Yes, 'killing practices'..
They got off to a great start.
Even 1900 some odd years ago they were force-feeding there religion on people and it never stopped..

As I said before.. Nazi's, Crusaders, etc..

As long as the immediate followers of the Messiah lived, they patterned their doctrine and manner of life after that of their Savior, for they were mainly of the Jewish ( Judean is the correct word) nation, and from the Israelite faith. They continued to live, to teach, to worship, as true Israelites, following the example of their Master.

cool

http://www.askapastor.org/proph.html

Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus' Life
by Dave Arch

There were two primary evidences which the apostles appealed to over and over again to establish the Deity and Messiahship of the Lord Jesus Christ. One was the fact of the resurrection and the other was the Old Testament prophecies which were fulfilled in the life of Jesus Christ.

Below is a listing of the prophecies written in the Old Testament and given to the Jewish nation so that they might be able to recognize their Messiah.


I. THE ACTUAL PROPHECIES

A. Concerning His Birth

1. Born of the seed of woman (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 4:4; Matthew 1:20)
2. Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18, 24, 25)
3. Son of God (Psalm 2:7; Matthew 3:17)
4. Seed of Abraham (Genesis 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Galatians 3:16) Here it is determined that the Messiah would be a Jewish descendant.
5. Son of Isaac (Genesis 21:12; Luke 3:23,34) Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Now God eliminates one half of the lineage of Isaac.
6. Son of Jacob (Numbers 24:17; Luke 3:23,34) Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau. Now God eliminates one half of the lineage of Isaac.
7. Tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:23,33) Jacob had twelve sons and each became a tribe of the Hebrew nation. Now God eliminates eleven-twelfths of the lineage of Jacob.
8. Family line of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1; Luke 3:23,32) Now God narrows it down even further by picking one family line out of the tribe of Judah.
9. House of David (Jeremiah 23:5; Luke 3:23,31) Jesse had at least eight sons (I Samuel 16:10,11). Now God eliminates all of Jesse's sons except one, David.
10. Born at Bethlehem (Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1) Now God eliminates all the cities in the world except one, Bethlehem.
11. Presented with gifts (Psalm 72:10; Isaiah 60:6; Matthew 2:1,11)
12. Herod kills children (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16)

B. Concerning His Nature

13. His Pre-Existence (Micah 5:2; Colossians 1:17; John 1:1)
14. He shall be called Lord (Psalm 110:1; Luke 20:41-44)
15. He shall be called Immanuel ("God with us") (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23)
16. Shall be a prophet (Deuteronomy 18:18; Matthew 21:11)
17. Shall be a priest (Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:5,6)
18. Shall be a judge (Isaiah 33:22; John 5:30)
19. Shall be a king (Isaiah 33:22; Matthew 27:37)
20. Special anointment of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2; Matthew 3:16,17)
21. He zeal for God (Psalm 69:9; John 2:15-17)

C. Concerning His Ministry

22. Preceded by a messenger (Isaiah 40:3; Matthew 3:1,2)
23. Ministry to begin in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1,2; Matthew 4:12,13,17)
24. Ministry of miracles (Isaiah 35:5, 6a; Matthew 9:35)
25. Teacher of parables (Psalm 78:2; Matthew 13:34)
26. He was to enter the temple (Malachi 3:1; Matthew 21:12)
27. He was to enter Jerusalem on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9; Luke 19:35,36,37a)
28. A "Stone Of Stumbling" to the Jewish nation (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7)
29. "Light" to the Gentiles (Isaiah 60:3; 49:6; Acts 13:47,48a)

D. Concerning Events After His Burial

30. His resurrection (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:31)
31. His ascension (Psalm 68:18a; Acts 1:9)
32. Seated at the right hand of God (Psalm 110:1; Hebrews 1:3)

E. Prophecies Fulfilled In One Day

The following 29 prophecies from the Old Testament, which speak of the betrayal, trial, death and burial of Jesus, were spoken at various times by many different voices during the five centuries from 1000-500 BC, and yet all of them were literally fulfilled in one twenty-four hour period of time in Jesus' life.

33. Betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9; Matthew 10:4)
34. Sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:15)
35. Money to be thrown down in God's house (Zechariah 11:13b; Matthew 27:5a)
36. Price given for potter's filed (Zechariah 11:13b; Matthew 27:7)

In the previous four prophecies we find in both prophecy and fulfillment the following:

1. Betrayed
2. By a friend
3. For 30 pieces of silver (not 29)
4. Silver (not gold)
5. Thrown down (not placed)
6. In God's house
7. Money used to buy potter's field

37. Forsaken by His disciples (Zechariah 13:7; Mark 14:50)
38. Accused by false witnesses (Psalm 35:11; Matthew 26:59-61)
39. Mute before accusers (Isaiah 53:7; Matthew 27:12-19)
40. Wounded and bruised (Isaiah 53:5; Matthew 27:26)
41. Smitten and spit upon (Isaiah 50:6; Micah 5:1; Matthew 26:67)
42. Mocked (Psalm 22:7,8; Matthew 27:31)
43. Fell under the cross (Psalm 109:24; John 19:17; Luke 23:26)
44. Hands and feet pierced (Psalm 22:16; Luke 23:33)
45. Crucified with thieves (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38)
46. Made intercession for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12; Luke 23:34)
47. Rejected by his own people (Isaiah 53:3; John 7:5,48)
48. Hated without a cause (Psalm 69:4; John 15:25)
49. Friends stood afar off (Psalm 38:11; Luke 23:49)
50. People shook their heads (Psalm 109:25; Matthew 27:39)
51. Stared upon (Psalm 22:17; Luke 23:35)
52. Garments parted and lots cast (Psalm 22:18; John 19:23,24)
53. Suffered thirst (Pslam 69:21; John 19:28)
54. Gall and vinegar offered Him (Psalm 69:21; Matthew 27:34)
55. His forsaken cry (Psalm 22:1; Matthew 27:46)
56. Committed Himself to God (Psalm 31:5; Luke 23:46)
57. His bones not broken (Psalm 34:20; John 19:33)
58. His heart broken (Psalm 22:14; John 19:34) The blood and water which came from Jesus' pierced side are evidences that the heart had literally burst.
59. His side pierced (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34)
60. Darkness over the land (Amos 8:9; Matthew 27:45)
61. Buried in a rich man's tomb (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60)

II. OBJECTIONS ANSWERED

A. Fulfilled Prophecies Were Actually Written At Or After The Time Of Jesus

Answer: If you are not satisfied with the date of 450 BC as the date of the Old Testament completion, then realize that the Greek translation of the Old Testament was completed in 250 BC.
Therefore, it appears evident that there were at least 250 years between the time of the writing of the prophecies and their fulfillment in Jesus Christ.

B. The Fulfilled Prophecy In Jesus Was Deliberate On His Part. He Knew The Old Testament Well Enough And Just Set Out To Fulfill All Of Them.

Answer: This might seem possible until we realize that thee were many prophecies outside of His control, such as:

1. Place of birth (Micah 5:2)
2. Time of birth (Daniel 9:25; Genesis 49:10)
3. Manner of birth (Isaiah 7:14)
4. Betrayal
5. Manner of death (Psalm 22:16)
6. People's reactions (Mocking, spitting, staring, etc.)
7. Piercing of His side
8. Burial

C. The Fulfilled Prophecy In Jesus Was Coincidental, An Accident

Answer: Peter Stoner in Science Speaks (Chicago: Moody Press, 1963) determines the probability of one man fulfilling eight of the prophecies of the Old Testament for the Messiah to be 1 in 10 to the 17th power.

Now let's try to imagine what this means. If we took that many silver dollars (100,000,000,000,000,000) and laid them over the State of Texas, they would cover the state two feet deep. Now mark one of the silver dollars, stir the whole mass thoroughly, blindfold a person, and tell him/her that they can travel as far as they want but must pick up one silver dollar and say that it is the marked one. What chance would s/he have of picking up the right one? It would be the exact same odds of anyone fulfilling eight of the Messianic prophecies by chance alone.

Peter Stoner then goes on to consider the possibility of any one person fulfilling 48 of the prophecies by chance. Here the odds jump to 1 in 10 to the 157th power. That number would look like this:

1 out of 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

CONCLUSION

"Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other: I am God and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done; Saying, 'My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.'"
(Isaiah 46:9,10)

"I declare the former things long ago and they went forth from My mouth, and I proclaimed them. Suddenly, I acted and they came to pass. Therefore, I declared them to you long ago, before they took place I proclaimed them to you, lest you say, 'My idol has done them, and my graven image and my molten image have commanded them.'" (Isaiah 48:3,5)

Actually, if you really pay attention to the NT, Peter expected everyone to convert to Judaism first, by following the OT laws, circumsionsion, etc. and then could be followers of Christ. Paul came along, didn't feel like get his penis whacked, or following dietary laws, said he had a few chats with Jesus, though never with the original apostles and that Jesus said not to worry about it.

Peter and Paul were at odds for most of their lives.

what religious person wasn't at odds with anotner religious person, you just look at the world, Christians fight amongst themselves all the time, each church (mormon, anglican etc) see themselves as the one true one.

Which, amigo, is why I don't trust..
..nor believe the Bible.

Now HERE is some real truth, thanks quietman for reality check!!