belusi, thanks.. I am trying to keep this simple..going back to what doc
said.. the lebanese Govt forces have all the sects within it..They are
not a puppet of syria, as they finally got a good government once they
got rid of syria... The government who failed to disarm Hezbollah, now
are dead set disarming the fath Islamic sect, who is a al quide group
and funded by them.. The refugge camp is full of innocents
palestinians... They dont want the group in there either, as expressed
by the refugees that are fleeing by the thousands..The lebanese govt is
not trying to wipe out the palestinians, rather the military of Fatah
Islamic group.. Now I quit,... this was only in repsonce to the 1st
statement of doc... and somehow we got off the topi.. sorry for typosc

Nahr Al-Bared refugee camp, Lebanon - As the fight between Islamic
militants Fatah al-Islam and Lebanese forces entered its fourth
day Wednesday – with a cease-fire holding just long enough to allow many
civilians to flee – little is known about the group that says it refuses
to surrender.

ADVERTISEMENT

Some observers say that the 200-300 fighters holed up inside Nahr
al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp, and seemingly preparing for a
protracted battle with Lebanon's Army, are adherents of Osama bin
Laden, part of a new generation of extremists tied to Al Qaeda.

But many of Lebanon's leading anti-Syrian politicians charge that this
faction is little more than a tool of Syrian intelligence planted in
Lebanon to wreak havoc and further destabilize the Western-backed
government in Beirut.

"Either way, this group is Al Qaeda," says Amal Saad-Ghorayeb of the
Carnegie Endowment's Middle East Center in Beirut. "Whoever supports
this group does not detract from the fact that their ideology is Al
Qaeda

thanks for the discussion guys, especially the insight belushi.

all we can do is question and learn.



doc

the arena of the Middle East has some of the most complicated politics
anywhere.

None of it is easily solvable.

If you eradicate one group, then the void will be filled by another
group.

There is some interesting news in circulation today

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070525/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

This was the beginning of a post is the religions section. I think it
should be under current news and events. So I will post my reply here.


The reasons that the US troops became involved at all, seems to have
transpired on two different levels.

level 1 - stack the country in favor of backing an action make it the
peoples ideal:
There was all the hype about terrorism being the new way to wage war.
We were bottle fed information/propagana about weapons of mass
destruction, about poisons, toxins, manufactured diseases. And the UN
backed this 'information' and required a presence in the areas believed
to harbor such terroist tools.

All bases covered, right? The almost overnight presence of security
within our own country, was shoved in our faces, with what effect? Will
we ever know? How many terrorist attacks were halted due to these
extenuating secure measures? How many citizens were harrassed versus how
many attacks thwarted?

Level 2 - The governments agenda:
We ceased being under the United Nations single sighted objective. We
were suddenly, stretched beyond the goal of finding the threats of
terrorism. Released to the minds of those, already bereaved and daunted
by the attacks of 9/11, were new reports of torture, of oppression in
those lands we sought to make free of harmful weapons of terror. We were
at war.

So are we fighting because there was "suddenly" this new reason, that we
were not aware of. Did our objective become to free the masses from the
reign of terror, of a rich and diabolical source? Are we fighting a
single government foe, whose agenda includes genocide?

These tortures we are suddenly bombarded with, suddenly aware of, are
not new. There were those in Germany in the early days of the holocaust
who were able to get word out, letters sent directly to high powered
officials in our government describing the unthinkable. Yet we took no
action.
This was not an on-going thousand year affiar. These were poeple who
cried out for help when thier country turned against the masses, and we
did nothing. The civil war was not fought to free the slaves, the war
with Germany was not fought to stop the genocide. WHAT ARE WE DOING IN
THE MIDDLE EAST?

In other recent posts there is discussion that attempts to track the
beginnings of the conflicts, the constant battles among the poeple of
these lands we have infiltrated. Folks, we are looking at hundreds of
generations of rivalry, change, oppression, suppression all in the name
of religion. WHY ARE WE SUDDENLY TAKING NOTICE?

Our presence there can only be for one purpose. WHAT IS THAT PURPOSE?

We can not free those who are oppressed without changing the concept of
their religions. They are not, have not ever been ruled by government
free of religious doctrine. They hate us because we do not follow a
government filled with thier morals.

Should we stop any potential take overs from terrorist governments of
peaceful nations - ABSOLUTELY. IS THAT WHAT WE ARE DOING?

ANSWERS that this government is not giving us. Quesitons that are asked
because the issues we should be addressing as a militia are under
scrutiny.

This government had an agenda from the beginning. What has taken place
some years prior to 9/11 through today, has unfolded far too
maticulously to be considered a series of cause and affects.

I have no doubt that if this country was ruled by religious doctrine, we
would be fed some Biblical interpretation that implied a prophecy was
being fulfilled. kariZ is right about this. The false fulfillment of
prophecy is so easy to dictate to those who want to believe.

If this govenment can not provide the answers we need, then we are
sending our troops, some of our best future resouces to their death,
under false rule.

I would kill, if I could, an army of thousands, to protect the
genocide and torture of millions. But millions is beyond the mark at
this point, for hundreds of generations have not, themselves, found a
way to peace.

There are a lot of uninformed incorrect asumptions in this thread. Too
many to waste time identifying for me. Oceans is the only one whose
posts I can find no fault with, and I have been studying the
Israeli-Palestinian problem for probably 20 years. I believe the most
informed of us all had a very good idea, and like her I am leaving this
thread.
Hey bl8ant wait up!!!!!!

Oceans> about the question you asked me on Seth/Seth.

Mohahmmad, to be able to trace to the seed of David must also be able to
trace to Seth. I am sure He alone of all arabian/persian descent is not
the only one.

awwww,

dont leave guys, we were just getting started.

so , oceans is the authority on war, and the history of the middle east?
interesting- but only if its the recent history of the area. it is
amazing how we rewrite history.

my biggest problem with any of this is that it can not be open and
honest. by ignoring whatever we choose to ignore just for the sake of
making a point, we end up inevitably sacrificing the truth- whatever
that truth maybe.

I might have been tempted to listen more to some of the suppossed
'authorities' had the not been so adement that theirs was the only
truth, when the facts about dates, heritage, and idealogy tell a
different story.

and then to belittle and/or simply run away- shouting out degrading
names making assertions that if someone didnt believe in your
onesightedness that they were some how a complete niave idiot who some
how or another was brainwashed and dimented.

respect lost all around- intelligence community? really? not buying that
BS. true colors showing? yes they sure are- in all courts. you can snow
ball some of the people some of the time, but not all of them all of the
time.

what a disappointment it has been to try and have a serious
conversation, but some of us dont want the truth, it wouldnt be
politically sound to do that.

but whatever, do what you feel you must to present your opinions.
presenting them as fact though- not very sound minded.