What a wonderful rumbling I have had all day....channelling and
compressing emotions into a place that allows for constructive
thoughts...

I have a suggestion, one of many, as I am apt to do..

Please, in the train of thought, and the list makings that I have
begun...have a peek...and see what you think..

As one of the many vehicles open to us.

http://www.acww.org.uk/

RUMBLING and RUMI NATING jess do you need a COWPATTER up there.

Hello Fred

Nah...no need for cowpatters...Rumi nating helps me focus..and the
rumblings are delicious...and exciting...and so very necessary.

So watcha got cooken good lookin?

Just to return the flow.....

Thu 05/31/07 04:14 PM
Reading through the ideas that are floating around here...

And for all to look at the different perspectives offered...in an
intelligent and open way..is perhaps the very thing that we are all
striving for..

Peaceful dialogue, which may lead to peaceful designs...

If we take this tiny thread, and look at the diversity of personalities,
and cultures and countries, as a 'test case' of what these designs, or
the discussions of these designs, for a healthier humanity may look
like, I feel optimism, and the tiniest glimmer of possibility...


For in every culture, (and we do need to look at all of the different
cultures, and societies, globally, when discussing what is, and what
will work, what the impacts will be), to have intrinsic changes within
the habits and behaviours developed, we must be sensitive to the
traditions of these different cultures.

And that is a huge task!


However, rather than sink into a defeatist mindset, I looked at how,
there is a desire for many countries to follow the 'western ways', with
consumerism, and the fast growth of economies...and wondered...

If there is this desire to be competative, with western ways, (for eg,
China and it's rapid changes within it's country, and it's foray into
global trading on the economic markets)..then there is the possibility,
of making these changes within our societies, and it then onflowing to
others.


When I looked at global, I got lost, so many cultural differences, so
many tradional ways, that all are unique to the different countries...


How to effect change, without forcing it upon others, as one nation to
another?

Lead by example? Rather than having countries follow us into our errors,
follow us into our successes?

**************************************************

Oceans, you said..

What if a global movement began with women withholding moral approval
for those who fight?

What if they turned away from those who advocate
war?

*************************************************


I see this as a wonderful, and potentially, huge impact...however to
have that implicated into reality, I see challenges..

And without causing an uproar...how many wives, daughters, mothers,
sisters, have been vehemantly against their menfolk going off to war?

Protested, and cajoled, begged their menfolk not to go?

And still they went...

The way I see it, there has been disempowerment with the patriarchal
ways of our societies..

And so...with that thought in mind...I asked myself why was it
ineffectual, why is it ineffectual?

Public support for the wars, and the turmoils within other countries,
has dwindled, globally...

(There are more countries, than just the US)

And still our menfolk go...is it economy, wages, income, that takes
these young men away, or is it the glory of war, of heroism?

The mindset programmed, conditioned, from birth, that men are warriors,
and defenders, and then re-inforced within their careers?

So where to start? To affect changes to these mindsets?

Is it within the family home, first and foremost?

That these young people are given good strong morals, and taught other
ways of managing
conflict?

Then into society, with schooling, and then the sports world, the work
world?

What is the current expectation of men and women? How are men perceived
in these modern times?

Have their roles changed?

Has women's roles changed?

There were women that fought Patriarchy. Tribes of Amazons, in Syria,
Thrace, Macedonia, and Africa, defended themselves from invasion, and
fought to preserve their Matriarchal religion and culture against the
onslaughts of the rising Sun God.

because we have been taught to see these as myths, we doubt their actual
existence, but the myth records the history of preliterate existence,
indeed isn't that also a basis for some of the arguments qualifying the
old testament?



anyway , my point being, we , as women are also capable of FEROCIOUS
capacity for protecting our domaine, we will use weapons, as many men
in this forum can attest to from their divorce stories !! lmao!!

we can get dirty, we are not afraid to be warriors and we have and I
have , taken up the sword to save our children.


but what we have HERE, is so far out of any direction any of us as a
humanity EVER wanted to see it go in.....

something equally extreme has to challenge it. and if we as women are
going to unite to challenge it, we have to look at the reality of what
we are up against...seriously. it's monstrous.

so where do we begin?

we can change the world....we have so we can do it again,

it is not about overcoming Patriarchy

it is about remembering OUR OWN POWERFUL ROLE as WOMEN AND MOTHERS and
MEETING, equally as MATRIARCHS.

we have all been born into conditioning of the 1900's....it has been an
amazingly successful parasite, the Media and the invention of
television.and movies.

we have been fed so many movies....so many dreams , horrors, fairytales,
and fantasies,we have been given access to worldwide communication and
this is what we do with it. reality tv shows and idols and britney and
paris, and marilyn monroe, and lana turner, and grace kelly, and .....

what does security look like ?

what have we as women allowed ourselves to be hypnotized into believing
was our genuine role here ???

just as any person will pull a child from an oncoming carso should we
pull them away from surrendering their brilliant minds to
the use of weapons. One's self defense resides within, there are many
roads to rome. We should be able to look and learn from these
follies,and i mean we as a humanity...so just as we have been
conditioned by so much media over the decades, now we are using that
very instrument to reach each other and exchange our ideas and find out
that we have more solidarity than we imagined and we are powered by that
and it doesn't seem so insurmountable, we ARE DOING IT, we are living it

but now i am asked to take a bigger step, step out of my comfort
zone..my security...here is where it gets tricky. how far will we take
it?

i am personally involved in active protests, i would like to see a
global tuning of women from all over the world take 1 day to march .
wherever they were. All of us on 1 day together....who knows...

Fri 06/01/07 11:45 AM
something to think about......


"The Blank Slate" ?

the"Ghost In The Machine" ?

or is the mind a system with many parts, then an inate desire is just
one component amoung others. Some faculties may endow us with greed or
lust or malice, but others may endow us with sympathy, foresight,self
respect, and a desire for respect from others, and an ability to learn
from others and process information..these are physical circuits
residing in the prefrontal cortex and other parts of the brain. they
have a genetic basis and an evolutionary history, no less than primal
urges.

our roles here are genetically determined thru the interaction between a
selfish process of evolution, and a law of complex systems.


this being so. i figure these wars and STRESS that have been taxed onto
the species , are serving to either balance some kind of population
control or weed out the violent ones that are attracted to that game.

but it's defective...and just in time for us to remove it with the new
developments in genetics. we do know that some genes will kill you.
(lol)

so the more our natures recoil and protest all the corruption, the
better and more quickly we will regenerate healthier minds. when you put
the mind in conflict with it's nature for too long , finally the tension
releases to a dominant victor.
so we have a crossroadif the mind is poisoned to the core of it's values
and that defeats the
successful aim of self preservation , we will simply evolve more and
more sophisticated weapons for defense...all the way down the line ,
absorbing and becoming immune to a violent lifestyle that we could have
chosen to redirect , back there at the crossroad.

we have become desensitized by so many things and you have heard them
all...is this affecting how we evolve genetically? memetically?

why do we pump so much money into violent movies and games..get me going
aboutgames.....subliminal programming, NLP, sophisticated advertising,
think tanks like Rand...

we as women have to from our kitchens boycott so many safe and installed
institutions ...and stop buying anything to do with violence or war toys
and really use the amazing force and intelligence that we areto redesign
our cultural realities....to in every way possible call
TIME OUT.

we are at least their equals, and it's our turn now

to every man, and with all due respect
REMEMBER WHERE YOU CAME FROM


peace

you must have just had a turkish delight or did ya just do a quick twirl
with the music on full blast jess

Something like that Fred...


I was talking with a friend of ours wayyyyy over there in Amsterdam, and
I soooo wanted to have an opportunity to digest her posts, and to look
at the angles of possibility, that have been produced in this thread..

By the time I found them...and then read through to here, I forgot what
they were about...so I just thought I would re-post them, to keep the
flow..

That, and memory loss..

To be honest, I'm having fierce difficulties to get my head around one
thing. With all the possibilities to approach, with all these brilliant
heads around, how do we deal with the consequences.
Where do we go with all these young people?
If we don't need armies anymore because there is no reason for them to
be?
In the world as it is now, there isn't enough work as it is.
How do we solve that problem?
Sorry if that sounds confused, but that's what I'm in the moment.

a female preying mantis eats the head off the male mantis during
copulation.FAAAARRRRROOOOOT im glad i was able to have another
go

But there is work, there is a need, a requirement, to return to the
glory of doing good...to being productive, not destructive.

There are teams of young unemployed people here, called 'Green Corps',
who spend a designated amount of time per week, replanting trees,
thousands and thousands of acres of trees, indigenous to the areas.

They work with waterways, reconstructing the plantlife, re-establishing
riverbanks, replenishing the ecosystems..

And as a result are developing an attachment to the purpose of their
work...the long term differences they are making.

These young people are re-connecting with the Earth...establishing a
consciousness of actions, and implications.

This is just the first thought off the top of my head...the first
example.

There is a wealth of mindful, credible, and satisfying job positions
just waitng to be developed for our young people...jobs with
status..positive status.

With the amount of income saved within governments, no longer spent on
war mongering, and weaponry, and the real fact of an aging population,
these excesses of funds available, could well go to educating our young
people, in the fields of health, food cropping, agriculture, in a
sustainable way...

the excess of funds from no war machines, nor warriors wages, creates a
huge purse, with which to educate, re-educate these young people.

I know two examples within these forums, that when their service time is
done within the military, one wants to, and is the process of educating
himself, to be a science teacher at high school level, and another
wishes to be a psychologist...

I know, but there is still this thing called society, where everything
has to be bigger, faster and more expensive as the neighbours. Do we not
have to change that first?
I see your point clearly, I was pondering it myself, but we all have to
change our outlook for that, the competitiveness has to go. This urge to
have more than others.
That would bring us to a point where nobody should be allowed to earn or
possess more than others. And the more I think about it, the more
confused I get.

once upon a time, not so long ago, horse and buggy was the go .black
smiths, farriers,coach body builders, saddlers to they all had lots to
do.now we drive cars and there is still lots to do.change can happen
over night when there is something serious in sight.eg.volunteers in our
bush fire brigade drop everthing to go out and fight.there is no limit
as to the things the young will have to do to fix all the damage we did
do.

Yes Fred, but in the moment I'm looking at my own little country, most
of it farmland. It is overcrowded already and every day more people
come, there isn't that much to do here. Will our young people be forced
to leave as it has been for centuries?

To redistribute the wealth, and to create a different perspective...

I am going to ask something...

Aren't the young leaving in droves to 'work' overseas for the military
anyway?

So, to 'train' young people, in the ways of healing, and agriculture,
and all the other necessary requirements, for the oppressed that they
are apparently fighting for anyway...

I see no differences, other than positive ones..

To go where when every country is facing the same problem at the same
time? And what to do with the foreigners that are working here for years
already, send them back, telling them we don't need you anymore?
I think I have to turn away from it for a while, clear my head and start
anew. It will take me some time to get rid of all these thoughts.

We could send every troop, every battalion...every single recruit to
Afrika, Afghanistan, Beirut, Iraq, Iran, Timor, and a million other
places, and they could spend their entire lives working, and still not
undo the damafges done, to this planet, and to the oppressed and
starving societies..