I no of no definition for true, other then that which is real.

Real is that which exists.

Something exists if it has ontological characteristics.

Something can only have characteristics if it interacts with reality.

That which interacts is physical.

Physical reality is all that there is . . .

That is your conclusion and opinion. I don't think it is true.

If that which interacts is "physical," (therefore 'reality') then the THINGS I find in my lucid dreams are real and physical and they exist because they interact with me and I with them. The only thing lacking is duration and agreement.

Yes your dreams are real and physical becuase they are thoughts, they are mind stuff.

Thoughts are real and physical.

No matter how you look at it, this is true.

Physical is that which interacts, everything that exists has interactions with reality.

Everything is physical.

I have found no logical refutations of this.

Everything is mind stuff.

But isn't the law supposed to be made and enforced by the majority?

Majority acceptance is clearly not linked to actuality.

Else a flat word we would have. Every observation that overruled the majority's beliefs would also have never happened.

Do you mean your truth, her truth, his truth or my truth? LOL

Truth is subjective because everyone believes they know it.

The questions were a large worm used for baiting anyone with anything to say about truth.

Is a Dolphin a fish? Is it true to say a Dolphin is a fish? Once it was commonly believed to be true.

We learn that they are not when we examine the details, truth is the same.

We may think something is true, and yet be mistaken. Does that really mean that it was true, or does it mean that we only thought it was so and when examined the details realize later that is was NEVER true?

Hmm.


I think I know which I prefer.


To me subjective is I like Red, Red is a calming color . . . Fish tastes good, This art is beautiful ect.

Subjective to me would not be, dolphin are fish, truth is subjective ect.

truth is as subjective as everything else in life. it all depends on your point of view.

There are objective and subjective truths.

That has already been demonstrated.

That's one way to look at it.

Thanx to Jeremy, who took the words right out of my mouth -- before I even had a chance to respond (and chew it a bit) -- although he phrased it most eloquently:
"Majority acceptance is clearly not linked to actuality.
Else a flat word we would have. Every observation that overruled the majority's beliefs would also have never happened."
-- though, I think he meant "flat worLd", rather than "flat word... Anyways, Good answer* * *

My truth is true for me.....it is my belief.

It is irrelevant who believes my truth, it is still true for me.

Truth is every fragment of the universe.

Jeremy,

This response has the very best intentions, I want you to know that...

To this...



I wrote this, which necessarily follows from the above...



You responded with this...



I am unsure how you arrived at this. For the purposes of this response being understood for what it means, I am showing your earlier post(s) for clarity.

You had written...



I know of no physical characteristics that can applied to 'truth'.



If I follow this strictly, then 'truth' does not exist.

I am only attempting to purposefully guide my thought to follow from your given definition Jeremy. I agree(in some way) with almost every thing you post, however, I feel that that definition of what constitutes existence backs itself into a corner.

Interaction means exactly what in your view?







Truth itself does not interact, it is a property(or not) of a statement. I am more than willing to read your view if you think otherwise.



I do not believe so, but should you want to continue this aspect, it would be better to quote from here and post in there.



Ideas are not physical - have no known physical substance. They do affect our thinking, but they have no physical existence, but they do interact(physically) by means of invoking emotion.

Ideas are not physical but do interact physically, therefore, your premise(below) is flawed.



I believe I have just given reason to warrant doubt in the premise.



I just covered this.



I just did.



I gave an example of something(an idea) which has no physical substance and yet is known to interact or directly affect one's physical/mental state. That shows an inadequate premise because it does not recognize this to be so, even though it has been shown to be.

Interesting post Creative.

But does an idea really interact?

And for Jeromy:

Interaction has to go both ways doesn't it? If a thought or idea is interacting, then with whom or with what is it interacting?

If you answer that question then you have found the thinker of the thought or the self. If I have an idea but I don't express it, it does not interact with anyone else, or anything. It is just mind stuff. I may react to it, but I don't see it reacting to me.

Jeromy also stated that dreams are real therefore physical. I don't know if scientists would agree with that. I don't. He called them 'mind stuff.' I agree they are mind stuff, I don't consider "mind stuff" as physical at all.

Physical, is a thing that has manifested into and interacts in the physical world and matter.

Mind stuff is NOT PHYSICAL, it is MENTAL. Physical and mental are not the same.

Therefore I do not accept Jeromy's premise either.

(And just because machines can detect brain waves does not mean that thoughts or dreams are "physical" or that it is interacting or detecting 'mind stuff.' All it is detecting is electrical impulses. The body is electric and is sending signals.)

But just because a thought is not physical, does not mean it is not REAL. Thoughts are real and they exist and they are things but they are not physical.

Jeromy seems to be insisting that in order to be REAL it must be physical. This is not true in my opinion.

Thoughts are real, emotions are real, love is real, ideas are real, but none of these things are physical.

The truth is we don't know

Lucid dreams are a guided effort therefore are subjected to the bias of the guide. (truth escapes as bias overcomes reality).

Truth is a concept that derives its inception from language (a construct) and therefore does not exist except within the limits of the construct (with each of us applying a value to it based upon our understanding of that construct)