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| Topic: UNWED MOTHERS - POLL | |
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And if we are talking IQ half of the known serial killers had IQs that were off the charts! And didn't necessarily from the outside appear to have poor lifestyles and also most parents were in the home!
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And if we are talking IQ half of the known serial killers had IQs that were off the charts! And didn't necessarily from the outside appear to have poor lifestyles and also most parents were in the home! Ted Bundy was a law student wasn't he? and he was very clean cut and charming |
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#7 for me, Fran.
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are you unbiased enough to decide yellow rose? why not the pope, the dali lama, barry obama, possibly the latter because he is representative of what average americans want, just like alternativa said.
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are you unbiased enough to decide yellow rose? why not the pope, the dali lama, barry obama, possibly the latter because he is representative of what average americans want, just like alternativa said. if you read back...I am not in favor of deciding...you are. NO ONE has the right to decide |
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And if we are talking IQ half of the known serial killers had IQs that were off the charts! And didn't necessarily from the outside appear to have poor lifestyles and also most parents were in the home! Ted Bundy was a law student wasn't he? and he was very clean cut and charming Yep, I do believe so. At least college educated and exteremely intelligent! He had anti-social personality disorder aka a psychopath. And he murdered many, many people before he was discovered. He drove two half dead and bleeding to death women past a campus security guard without that guard thinking twice. I do believe he did drop out, but his mother was a secretary on campus. |
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Twowheels,
I'm letting this one drop. Certainly, it is not worth my time. It's always fun to make an arguement, and have a battle of wits, but this one is just too utopian for me. It's a fun idea, and I think any intelligent person has, at some point, wished that it were reality. I know how angry I sometimes get over a person's stupidity. But again, IQ as a direct correlation of genetics is not something that be accurately predicted. What if two smart people give birth to a mentally challenged individual? What do you do then? Dangit, I said I was done with this haha. Hard to turn off the water once it gets flowing. |
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are you unbiased enough to decide yellow rose? why not the pope, the dali lama, barry obama, possibly the latter because he is representative of what average americans want, just like alternativa said. I can tell you right now the dali lama would not agree to that. I wouldn't trust the pope because the catholic church is about power and control. (But probably wouldn't agree to it). I don't feel the president of the united states should have that authority! |
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Modern science is showing the world is too complicated to be explained by who mated with whom. Epigenetics for example blows the whole foundation of eugentics away.
Why we get sick or age quicker as adults may be linked to chemical exposure early in development... not just our own time in the womb but also that of several generations before us. What studies like this are showing is that for example the kind of life your great great grandfather lived will have an effect you today. http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/epigenetics/2006/2006-0915anwayetal.html |
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Edited by
Winx
on
Mon 05/18/09 08:58 AM
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Modern science is showing the world is too complicated to be explained by who mated with whom. Epigenetics for example blows the whole foundation of eugentics away. Why we get sick or age quicker as adults may be linked to chemical exposure early in development... not just our own time in the womb but also that of several generations before us. What studies like this are showing is that for example the kind of life your great great grandfather lived will have an effect you today. http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/epigenetics/2006/2006-0915anwayetal.html That's a very interesting article, Thomas. |
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so because ted bundy should be allowed to have children? because he went to law school? as if we don't have enough evil (read lawyers) in society
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so because ted bundy should be allowed to have children? because he went to law school? as if we don't have enough evil (read lawyers) in society no one said that..it is an example of his IQ and using your methos...he would have slipped through the cracks |
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so because ted bundy should be allowed to have children? because he went to law school? as if we don't have enough evil (read lawyers) in society Weren't you talking about only smart people having children? |
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so because ted bundy should be allowed to have children? because he went to law school? as if we don't have enough evil (read lawyers) in society Ok, now I'm confused. What is your stance on this issue? I thought you were arguing in FAVOR of conrolled birth. |
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so because ted bundy should be allowed to have children? because he went to law school? as if we don't have enough evil (read lawyers) in society Well I made the point because you want to get rid of people who are not intelligent or socially adequate... so with your theory individuals like Ted Bundy will be allowed to be in your society. Which obviously you according to your criteria allows him to be a part of your 'for the greater good' society! |
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Twowheels, I'm letting this one drop. Certainly, it is not worth my time. It's always fun to make an arguement, and have a battle of wits, but this one is just too utopian for me. It's a fun idea, and I think any intelligent person has, at some point, wished that it were reality. I know how angry I sometimes get over a person's stupidity. But again, IQ as a direct correlation of genetics is not something that be accurately predicted. What if two smart people give birth to a mentally challenged individual? What do you do then? Dangit, I said I was done with this haha. Hard to turn off the water once it gets flowing. Have to agree... Ontowheels keeps spinning his wheels instead of paying attention to what others have said. It was a good poll and turned into a good discussion, but it's just not worth the effort when the wheels are that stuck. 
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1 >” Not necessarily... you're only 26... you said it stopped in the 70's... Just think if they had continued...” YOU say you’re reasonably intelligent, but who is to say those judging would consider you to be? i guess that would be up to my aptitude and iq tests 2 > "our past does not define us, what defines us is how we rise after falling" You think it’s ok to judge another on mistakes, but you’re to be judged on how you do after the mistake. im judging people on their families mistakes. bad blood that's all it is some people have it some do not. 3 > "and why should the average person be allowed to decide what is best for the whole" Because we ARE the average person.... this country was made by the average person... because that's what we fight for... the freedom of the AVERAGE PERSON you might be the average person, but i would not consider my self average, this country was not founded by average people, it was founded by..... extremist who would be considered terrorist by today's standards. what do you fight for? freedom? how? What about the fact that IQ shows a correlation to race? you have to be impartial on matters like this you cannot things like race get in the way. I'm ( sure )with a little thought you can see my point. should he not have been born because of his dad and the fact that I was 18 at the time? what does age have to do with anything? QUOTE: While the science of genetics has increasingly provided means by which certain characteristics and conditions can be identified and understood, given the complexity of human genetics, culture, and psychology there is at this point no agreed objective means of determining which traits might be ultimately desirable or undesirable. Eugenic manipulations that reduce the propensity for criminality and violence, for example, might result in the population being enslaved by an outside aggressor it can no longer defend itself against. On the other hand, genetic diseases like hemochromatosis can increase susceptibility to illness, cause physical deformities, and other dysfunctions. Eugenic measures against many of these diseases are already being undertaken in societies around the world, while measures against traits that affect more subtle, poorly understood traits, such as criminality, are relegated to the realm of speculation and science fiction. The effects of diseases are essentially wholly negative, and societies everywhere seek to reduce their impact by various means, some of which are eugenic in all but name. The other traits that are discussed have positive as well as negative effects and are not generally targeted at present anywhere. that might be the most compelling argument your side ahs had in this whole debate Psst....what debate? The OP was taking a poll. sometimes people just read more than is necessary 
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Edited by
yellowrose10
on
Mon 05/18/09 09:05 AM
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I found something intersting on why eugenics failed.
Research Flaws: There were many reasons why eugenics failed. Much can be attributed to the fact that information was skewed and the research flawed. There were five main flaws in eugenics research, as listed below. 1. Difficulty of defining traits - Eugenics researchers were trying to identify traits that were difficult to define, such as epilepsy, intelligence, and alcoholism, for example. Some of these traits were not clearly definable in reality. 2. Reification - meaning when complex behaviors were treated as thought they stemmed from a single cause, such as intelligence. It is impossible to narrow down these complex behaviors to just one single cause. 3. Poor survey and statistical methods - Often, information could not be gathered from many generations back, the proper way to invest a subject like eugenics, and information from previous generations often came only from word of mouth, and unreliable source of information. 4. False quantification - This is the belief that is numerical values can be produced in investigation, experimentation, and research, that this information is valid. An example of this is the IQ test, which is believed to tell the true intelligence of a person on how well they score on a single test. 5. Social and environmental influences - Researchers in the eugenics field forgot to take into account the differences that social influences would have on a person, such as different customs, life styles, and health practices of various cultural groups. This skewed the information they recorded. Also, an interesting note on the quotas (http://occ.awlonline.com/bookbind/pubbooks/nash5e_awl/medialib/timeline/doc s/sources/theme_primarysources_Immigration_11.html) - if you look at the number of immigrants admitted from Spain, a western country of Europe and one of the original early settling countries of the US, it is only allowed 131 immigrants, while Poland, and eastern country of "bad blood", is allowed 5,982 immigrants, and southern country also of "bad blood", Italy, is allowed 3,845 immigrants. Perhaps there was another reason for the small amount of immigrants being allowed in from Spain, but I do not know what that is. |
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there will always be exceptions. iq alone will not determine someones place in lif ebut it is a good place to start draining the gene pool, for discussions sake i left out race physical build and a few other factors but i do believe i did mention criminal history and the history of previous generations.
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