Bushidobillyclub,

Again, the definition you posted of solipsism is one person's point of view and it would require a definition of SELF.

Is self God?

OR Is self one single human being in a physical body?

If you define 'self' as a single human point of view then solipsism makes no sense at all to anyone!

But if "self" is defined as one consciousness creating and existing as many points of view in its one and only 'mind' (a universal mind) then solipsism makes a lot of sense because nothing does exist except within the mind of this universal consciousness.

That would mean that this is a dream world and we are all aspects and points of view of a single dreamer experiencing existence in a self created reality.

Ok..here goes...this is gonna freak some of you out...
WE ARE ALL GOD!

We are God....Godding!That is all that is going on here!

Exactly! And I don't disagree with that one iota!

But at the same time pantheism recognizes because of this complex situation no ONE of us creates our reality ALONE.




I don't need to know anything about you. I only respond to the thoughts you POST. Nothing more.



Our only disagreement is that you demand that we are 100% responsible for creating our own individual realities.

And I disagree with that.

What you are trying to claim would indeed to be pure solipsism and not pantheism at all.

Pantheism recognizes the wholeness of our being, yet it also recognizes the individuality of our free will the fact that our individual actions can indeed affect other people. Turning that around looking from the individual out,... we cannot possible be responsible for creating the sum total of our reality.

So, IMHO, you are the one who doesn't understand the difference between pantheism and solipsism.

Pantheism ACCEPTS that we partake in a larger creation which we "as being confined with the individual form of humans" we cannot possibly be soley responsible for creating.

You somehow seem to view this as being negative or some kind of shortcoming. You seem to refuse to accept that you might not be able to have FULL CONTROL of your existence.

But that would require solipsism.

Pantheism does not support the idea that each individual human can be fully responsible for creating their own individual reality.

So this truly has nothing at all to do with Abracadabra versus Jeanniebean. That war is an entirely fabricated figment of your own creation and doesn't exist in the collective reality.

I couldn't care less what you personally believe. All I'm saying is that the claims that you have been making about how you believe the "Law of Attraction" works, would require solipsism to be true.

They are not in accord with pantheism at all.

Either you misunderstand the "Law of Attraction", or the authors that you've been reading misunderstand it. Or the whole philosophy is simply wrong (unless they want to endorse solipsism instead of pantheism).

I really don't care. I can't disprove solipsism.

All I'm saying is that if you want to claim that an individual is solely responsible for creating their own reality and you reject that any other humans can have an affect on their reality, then you're taking the stance of solipsism, not pantheism.

Also, if you accept that other humans can indeed affect their reality then I have indeed been misundstanding what you have been saying because you seem to be utterly demanding that we create our own individual realities, and that everything that happens to use WE DREW to us.

You seem to be totally rejecting the free will of others to have an affect on our lives.

If we get raped, we DREW that event to us!

That's what you've been claiming all along.

That requires solipsism and denies pantheism.

Pantheism says, "YES!" you were raped beyond your control! Deal with it!

But solipsism says, "If you were raped you must have done it to yourself because there is NO ONE ELSE!"

As far as I'm concerned your interpretation or understanding of the "Law of Attraction" is a solipsistic one, not a pantheisic one.

And I don't mean anything at all personal by this.

I'm just trying to point out the difference.

If you want to accept pantheism you need to view the "Law of Attraction" from that perspective and quit telling people that they are SOLEY responsible for everything that happens to them.

That's solipsism not pantheism.

You take it way too far, IMHO.

I simply can't endorse that extremism.

To me that demands solipism and denies pantheism.

You're like a "Law of Attraction" fundamentalist demanding a specific interpretations and not allowing for others.

As far as I can see you can actually turn people OFF to the "Law of Attraction". You've certainly turned me away from it by your hardcore approach to it.

You demand solipsism as far as I can see.

I believe in pantheism, not solipsism.

To me, there's a huge difference between these two concepts.

I'm not at war with you. I just totally disagree with your interpretation of the "Law of Attraction", and/or any authors you might be reading who also endorse that approach to it.

You keep telling me to read those books, but if they are making the same claims as you, then I already reject them. I don't need to read them. I can already tell you that I'm not interested in a solipsistic approach to life.

And if they aren't solipsistic, then you must be misrepresenting them because as far as I can see, you continually and relentlessly demand that we are all individually responsible for creating our own individual realities.

I disagree. And I hold that for that to be true, then solipsism would need to also be true, because that's the only way it could work.

If there's any truth to the "Law of Attraction" in a pantheistic world, then it must be flexible and not absolute. It must be "vulnerable" to being overridden by the free will of others.

But you refuse to allow for that. (at least as I understand your claims). You appear to me to be taking a very hardcore approach to demanding that we create our own realities - no exceptions!

If my tomato plants got frost bite, I DID IT! There is no other way for it to happen, according to you! Because according to you I attract EVERYTHING that happens to me! That would require solipsism, IMHO.

And I reject solipsism (and so do you!)

So if you reject solipsism then why do you demand it?

From Living Consciously

Principle Number Five:

The Principle of Responsibility as Empowerment

You are responsible for every feeling or behavior you have, in the sense that it is either your conscious choice, or it is an automatic response generated unconsciously by your internal map of reality.
This is not to say that you are to blame for every feeling or behavior you have.

Taking personal responsibility is not about blame but rather about personal power. If someone or something outside of you is the cause of your feelings or behavior, you are powerless—a victim.

If you—or at least your unconscious—processes—are at cause, then you can exercise some choice in creating the feelings and behaviors that you choose, and that serve you. People or events may be a stimulus, but your response comes from you, either consciously or unconsciously.

Doesn't freak me out a bit.

I love the God in you JB!

You'd be hard pressed to freak anyone out around here.

Besides, shouting "WE ARE ALL GOD!" doesn't truly address the core issue.

This concept can be manifest in many ways.

This idea has been pondered and studied for many millenninum.

It's actaully the oldest philosophy known to mankind, it predates any and all religions.

James,

I don't demand anything.

If you see a difference between the labels solipsism and Pantheism then that would be your struggle, not mine.

Our points of view differ in that I define the ultimate 'self' as God.

You define 'self' as you.

you said:
".....no ONE of us creates our reality ALONE."

I say:
.....I am not alone..... EVER!




I don't turn people on or off. They do that to themselves.



How much someone has an effect on my life is my decision. How I react to what is, is under my power. I have had bad things happen to me, but I accepted the situation, evaluated it, determined the cause, learned from it, and then I went on with my life. I have no need to claim victim hood.

Now is the point of power. Now you can alter the course of your life. That is what it is all about.

Likewise.

Descartes Demon, and brain in a vat. Both are realities where the only thing real is the tricker and the trickee.

I can agree with the above, only the bold section confuses me. You seem to be saying the opposite of the rest of the post.

If I were God, would I live a better life? Would I be generous, kind, and true? Wouldn't I be leading people to live in my existence? etc...etc...etc?

James..it adresses everything including the core issues here.If you are God Godding...then you are a cocreator of life itself!Alot of people fear that responsibility..it's easier to pass the responsibility to someone else to clear up!
It's like God blew up into a million pieces and produced each and everyone of us.....now we are here expressing and creating in this wonderful garden.We are cocreating!If you question that...sit quietly and listen to your heart,,,stop with the science and religions...and give yourself the pleasure of realizing how wonderful and powerful you truly are!
You are God James...and I love you!

And we are both.

I never said you were.




That's a moot point.

If you misrepresent an idea you mislead people.

That's all I'm saying.

I just don't support your fundamentist claims.

I've given my reason. The way you present the "Law of Attraction" demands solipsism. Yet you deny solipsism. As far as I'm concerned that's a blatant contradiction.

That's my story and um stick'in to it.

I don't know Nobel...only you do...how will you express the God in you today...tomorrow ...or the next.We are all the same..we are all one!Why would you want people to live your exsistence?Wouldn't you want them to live there own?You should always be generous,kind and true...are you not that?

You are God, so get your act in order.

You can be generous, kind and true if you think that is what God should do. Lead people to love and compassion.

But God pretty much can do anything he/she/it wants.

By the way... so can you.

After all, you are God.

I am not asking for your support. This ain't no political race.

Kudoos JB on calling God He/She
that's another one that will drive peole up the wall.
God is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen!