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| Topic: On Knowing... | |
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The problems caused by those who write the 'feel good' books by using strictly scientific terms and applying metaphysically dynamic definitions are apparent only to those who know better.
The confuse the ones who do not. This highlights the importance of having and maintaining a verifiable knowledge base and learning and honing critical thinking habits/skills... JB, You know much more than just the fact that you exist. |
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The problems caused by those who write the 'feel good' books by using strictly scientific terms and applying metaphysically dynamic definitions are apparent only to those who know better.  Okeee dokeee Creative. The confuse the ones who do not. This highlights the importance of having and maintaining a verifiable knowledge base and learning and honing critical thinking habits/skills... JB, You know much more than just the fact that you exist. Yes I do, but I would never assume or expect that any other person should agree with me, and I would always leave room for .0000000000000001% possibility that I could be mistaken. Only FOOLS are positive. |
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Yes I do, but I would never assume or expect that any other person should agree with me, and I would always leave room for .0000000000000001% possibility that I could be mistaken. Only FOOLS are positive.  Uhhh... Buh... Buh... Alrighty then!!! You THINK about what you just said! |
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All behavior can be boiled down to chemical reactions to external and internal stimuli, free will is an illusion created by humans. Randomness is like the olden days claims of attributing all things intangible in the human mind to a soul or spirit, it is just a way explaining that which we do not yet understand. All behavior can be bolied down...? Not yet! There are many times which one has no idea what it is that they will do in a given situation until it happens. Even then, the same person, in the same scenarion on more than one occasion may act differently. The same amount of hormones can produce quite different results in action and/or thought... What would a refutation of either claim look like? Free will does not exist. That I will agree upon. Randomness, does not equate to all things intangible, at least not from my perspective. To compare it to 'the olden days' is like comparing a thing with reason, purpose, and/or intent to that which exists without. There is no comparison. HOW CAN YOU OR ANY ONE SAY "FREE WILL DOES NOT EXIST"??? that is sheer delusion??? HOW CAN THE HUMAN THINKING TAKE TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT ITSELF SPEAK AND DO UNTO ALL OTHER'S, THINKING AS THIS??? if one can move it's body, than it has free will!!!??? so, it is only but the "extent" of "free will" which be in question??? the only limitation to free will, is WHAT HOW MUCH DENY ITSELF AS HAVING??? a parapalegic, WITH NO ****ING LEGS, FIGHTS TO BECOME A PRIZE BASKETBALL PLAYER??? HOW DID HE DO SUCH, WITHOUT FREE WILL TO PRACTICE AND PRACTICE TO MAKE IT BECOME SO??? he had the "free will" to also want to blow out his brains, thinking surely he had no FREE WILL, AS EQUAL TO WHAT OTHER'S HAVE??? all HAVE TOTAL FREE WILL, TO WORK AND CHANGE WHATEVER ITSELF FIRST CREATED??? whatever the person did, to become "parapalegic", did not ITSELF DO??? does SOMETHING HOLD A GUN OEVER ANY ONE'S HEAD, FORCING IT TO DO ANYTHING??? one does not even have to obey ANY LAW IN THE LAND??? NOPE!!! TOTAQLLY FREE TO DO WHATEVER IT WISH??? if it FEAR THE LAW, then it just DOES NOT WISH WHAT THE "LAW" WILL DO TO IT, IF IT COMMITT THE ACT??? IT IS STILL THE "FREE WILL CHOICE" TO DO WHATEVER SELF MOST WISH??? ANYTHING CAN MURDER, RAPE, KILL, DESTROY, MAIME, MANIPULATE OTHER'S FOR SELF GAIN, OPPRESS, VIOLATE, AND AS WELL, LOVE, GIVE KINDNESS, HUGS, HELP THE POOR, LIFT THE WEAK, GIVE CONFIDENCE TO THE DOWNTRODDEN, BUILD STRENGTH AND WISDOM, ALL AND ANYTHING THE "FREE WILL CHOICES OF EACH HUMAN THING"??? at the same time, there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD, that it can not be redily understood, how it appear to the self percetion, that ITSELF DOES NOT HAVE FREE WILL, duly noted that this "feeling" come from being "birthed into a pre-existing ENVIRONMENT, that WAS CREATED BEFORE SELF GOT HERE??? but, all those that HADC CREATED IT, as well, HAD THE EXACT SAME AMOUT OF FREE WILL??? so, the PLACE ONE ENTER THE WORLD, seems to be quite to the "disadvantge" to a new one, that walk out and first think, damn, if i was just born into that "other family", who has immense wealth, or power, and all such things, first create this "illusion" that self has NO FREE WILL??? self is doing what it WANTS AT ALL TIMES, AS IT CAN EVEN END IT'S LIFE AT ANY TIME, WITH IT'S OWN HANDS??? JUST AS SELF CAN TAKE IT'S OWN LIFE, WITH IT'S OWN HANDS, SO CAN IT GIVE OR TAKE LIFE, AND HAPPINESS FROM ALL OTHERS??? it cannot be missed, the FIRST THING THAT THE SHOOTER OF VIRGINIA STATE THOUGHT ITSELF HAD "NO FREE WILL", TO MAKE ANY OTHER CHOICE??? no doubt, HE WAS NOT TAUGHT, HE WAS THE CREATOR OF ALL AROUND HIMSELF, or he would not have HATED OTHER'S FOR CAUSING HIM PAIN, AS HE WOULD HAVE SEEN, HE WAS DOING WHAT MADE THE OTHER'S SPEAK PAINFULLY TO HIM??? so, ALL RESENTMENT IN THE WORLD, come from self dening OTHER'S SPEAK TRUELY OF SELF, self deeming itself as having NO FREE WILL, TO DO DIFFERENT??? such logic is detrimental to all good things of the human species??? WHAT IS IT IS DECLARED FORTH TO ALL THE WORLD, "NO ONE HAS FREE WILL"??? what shall make one think ITSELF IS CAUSING OTHER'S REACTION'S??? sure, IT IS EASILY DENIED WITHIN SELF, BECAUSE ALL HAVE AND ARE GIVING REACTION "COLLECTIVELY TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME"??? but, ANYTHING COULD HAVE CHOSEN "A DIFFERENT REACTION AT ANYTIME"??? THAT IS TOTAL FREE WILL OF REACTION??? peace no edit |
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Yes I do, but I would never assume or expect that any other person should agree with me, and I would always leave room for .0000000000000001% possibility that I could be mistaken. Only FOOLS are positive. Uhhh... Buh... Buh... Alrighty then!!! You THINK about what you just said! Why? You are the one who is so positive about everything. I am only certain of one thing... that I exist. Perhaps that makes me a fool. 
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All behavior can be boiled down to chemical reactions to external and internal stimuli, free will is an illusion created by humans. Randomness is like the olden days claims of attributing all things intangible in the human mind to a soul or spirit, it is just a way explaining that which we do not yet understand. All behavior can be bolied down...? Not yet! There are many times which one has no idea what it is that they will do in a given situation until it happens. Even then, the same person, in the same scenarion on more than one occasion may act differently. The same amount of hormones can produce quite different results in action and/or thought... What would a refutation of either claim look like? Free will does not exist. That I will agree upon. Randomness, does not equate to all things intangible, at least not from my perspective. To compare it to 'the olden days' is like comparing a thing with reason, purpose, and/or intent to that which exists without. There is no comparison. HOW CAN YOU OR ANY ONE SAY "FREE WILL DOES NOT EXIST"??? that is sheer delusion??? HOW CAN THE HUMAN THINKING TAKE TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT ITSELF SPEAK AND DO UNTO ALL OTHER'S, THINKING AS THIS??? if one can move it's body, than it has free will!!!??? so, it is only but the "extent" of "free will" which be in question??? the only limitation to free will, is WHAT HOW MUCH DENY ITSELF AS HAVING??? a parapalegic, WITH NO ****ING LEGS, FIGHTS TO BECOME A PRIZE BASKETBALL PLAYER??? HOW DID HE DO SUCH, WITHOUT FREE WILL TO PRACTICE AND PRACTICE TO MAKE IT BECOME SO??? he had the "free will" to also want to blow out his brains, thinking surely he had no FREE WILL, AS EQUAL TO WHAT OTHER'S HAVE??? all HAVE TOTAL FREE WILL, TO WORK AND CHANGE WHATEVER ITSELF FIRST CREATED??? whatever the person did, to become "parapalegic", did not ITSELF DO??? does SOMETHING HOLD A GUN OEVER ANY ONE'S HEAD, FORCING IT TO DO ANYTHING??? one does not even have to obey ANY LAW IN THE LAND??? NOPE!!! TOTAQLLY FREE TO DO WHATEVER IT WISH??? if it FEAR THE LAW, then it just DOES NOT WISH WHAT THE "LAW" WILL DO TO IT, IF IT COMMITT THE ACT??? IT IS STILL THE "FREE WILL CHOICE" TO DO WHATEVER SELF MOST WISH??? ANYTHING CAN MURDER, RAPE, KILL, DESTROY, MAIME, MANIPULATE OTHER'S FOR SELF GAIN, OPPRESS, VIOLATE, AND AS WELL, LOVE, GIVE KINDNESS, HUGS, HELP THE POOR, LIFT THE WEAK, GIVE CONFIDENCE TO THE DOWNTRODDEN, BUILD STRENGTH AND WISDOM, ALL AND ANYTHING THE "FREE WILL CHOICES OF EACH HUMAN THING"??? at the same time, there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD, that it can not be redily understood, how it appear to the self percetion, that ITSELF DOES NOT HAVE FREE WILL, duly noted that this "feeling" come from being "birthed into a pre-existing ENVIRONMENT, that WAS CREATED BEFORE SELF GOT HERE??? but, all those that HADC CREATED IT, as well, HAD THE EXACT SAME AMOUT OF FREE WILL??? so, the PLACE ONE ENTER THE WORLD, seems to be quite to the "disadvantge" to a new one, that walk out and first think, damn, if i was just born into that "other family", who has immense wealth, or power, and all such things, first create this "illusion" that self has NO FREE WILL??? self is doing what it WANTS AT ALL TIMES, AS IT CAN EVEN END IT'S LIFE AT ANY TIME, WITH IT'S OWN HANDS??? JUST AS SELF CAN TAKE IT'S OWN LIFE, WITH IT'S OWN HANDS, SO CAN IT GIVE OR TAKE LIFE, AND HAPPINESS FROM ALL OTHERS??? it cannot be missed, the FIRST THING THAT THE SHOOTER OF VIRGINIA STATE THOUGHT ITSELF HAD "NO FREE WILL", TO MAKE ANY OTHER CHOICE??? no doubt, HE WAS NOT TAUGHT, HE WAS THE CREATOR OF ALL AROUND HIMSELF, or he would not have HATED OTHER'S FOR CAUSING HIM PAIN, AS HE WOULD HAVE SEEN, HE WAS DOING WHAT MADE THE OTHER'S SPEAK PAINFULLY TO HIM??? so, ALL RESENTMENT IN THE WORLD, come from self dening OTHER'S SPEAK TRUELY OF SELF, self deeming itself as having NO FREE WILL, TO DO DIFFERENT??? such logic is detrimental to all good things of the human species??? WHAT IS IT IS DECLARED FORTH TO ALL THE WORLD, "NO ONE HAS FREE WILL"??? what shall make one think ITSELF IS CAUSING OTHER'S REACTION'S??? sure, IT IS EASILY DENIED WITHIN SELF, BECAUSE ALL HAVE AND ARE GIVING REACTION "COLLECTIVELY TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME"??? but, ANYTHING COULD HAVE CHOSEN "A DIFFERENT REACTION AT ANYTIME"??? THAT IS TOTAL FREE WILL OF REACTION??? peace no edit Free will is an illusion. We (for whichever reason you choose) do not instigate actions, but we only react to stimuli. I eat because I am hungry. I sleep because I am tired. I hurt because something pains to me. I seek out a mate because of an inherent desire to procreate or because I am lonely. |
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What is your favorite color?
Why? |
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What is your favorite color? Why? Doesn't matter. Tastes and preferences are chemical reactions. |
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Edited by
davidben1
on
Mon 04/27/09 02:54 PM
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no human has to "eat", because it is "hungry"???
because the "body", indicate to me, i am hungry, does not mean i do not have a choice??? so, self has the "free will", to not eat??? will there be an "effect", from not eating??? of course, just as there is an "effect", for all things done by self??? yes, it feel as though, self is in a prison, without "free will", which create this "feeling", so then deemed and called an "illusion of free will", and this in itself, would "restrict", what anything think itself is capable of, or can accomplish, and so create the very first belief there is "no free will", at all??? so it seems, this thinking is more the rightfully felt "illusion", and so believed, that make it into a reality, acted out then by the words and deeds??? it could easily be understand, something thinking it is "restricted", being within constraints, of the "amount" of free will, but none at all??? this would surely be impossible, if any "consistency in happening", is retained at all??? self fall off a bike, it has the free will, to sit there, or get up??? that is "free will", in itself??? self seeing what it "wants most", then learning from falling "off the bike", so INDUCE KNOWING, to what it need "to know", to get back on, and ride better??? does self have no free will, because it "could fall off"??? because the "laws of gravity", made it to be so??? so, the law of gravity is a "constraint" on free will had, BUT DOES NOT ELIMINATE IT FROM EXISTING??? is there a "principle", of self preservation, alive in all things, that "try to envoke", to a certain action??? yes, INDEED, and it could not be denied as "powerful force", but, this does not negate in any way, that self "free will" exist as well, in all things, within the "constraints" of the "principle's of the reality", that self is presented with??? you deem "free will" an "illusion", but use no description of how this conclusion is arrived at??? it is not that there is "any untruth", in the universe, but more how is it true??? the brain can disprove, "any statement", outside of self knowing, that iself does not already know??? the very essence, of proving HOW FREE WILL IS HAD, show then THE RESTRICTIONS OF FREE WILL, which be what actually show what is needed to see MORE FREE WILL, which is what is needed to GET MORE FREE WILL, which simply come from seeing limitations, to then understand them, OR KNOW MORE, and, when they be understood, then do they not pass away??? does not a child, think it is a prisoner to mom and dad??? is it??? it just does know yet, that it could walk out the door anytime it wish??? when it see this, it then decide, with free will, DO I WISH TO??? how shall i feed myself??? how shall i have money to have a place to live??? so, then it SEE, it's limitation's, which in turn, TELL IT TO STAY A BUT A WHILE, SHOW MORE, OR MORE KNOWING, TO MAKE MONEY, THEN MOVE, BECAUSE IT HAD THE "FREE WILL", TO DEDUCT SUCH, AS HOW TO ACHIEVE WHAT IT WANT??? the want of the human being, then determine exactely the AMOUNT OF FREE WILL SEEN, SO THEN BELIEVED TO BE HAD??? progressing thru life in the same manner, as from when a child??? just thoughts your statement bring to this "one reality"... great insight by the way... peace man |
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What is your favorite color? Why? Red. Because I can feel it... the lushness, the silken wonder, I can taste it....there's a fullness, a ripeness, a deep attraction to red.... |
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What is your favorite color? Why? a "favorite", is a "feeling", one has, because it has a "good memory", an association in the mind, with a "particlular color", so created from a, "place in time, a feeling in time, and meeting of a color in time??? the universe itself, revolve in "three's", and the "momo dimension", the memory, based only on a "feeling remembered most", very much restict the sight of such things??? it hold value to a "one thing" as good, when the sight of how to create good, must come from seeing ALL THAT CREATED WHAT WAS CREATED, FIRST??? so, a "favorite color", is as such in itself then, as a "bias", created from the "memory", of past lived experience, and indeed, show "where", ALL, ALL, ALL, bias is derived from??? the memory itself??? damned and cursed, and even create the "illusion", of no free will??? if there is percieved "limited free will", it is most derived from the "human memory", as how doth one escape it's memory??? bias, being simply one thing better than another, created in the damn human memory??? this could pose a "problem", of restricting self, lol??? to repeat the past??? history repeating itself??? to do the same thing, and expect a different result??? the entire "human systems", are based on "one thing", as greater than another, so then such is easily perpetuated within the human experience, as the "norm"??? just wonder, what "first", created the "total sum", of what created each human's "belief in good", or better??? what oneself "felt", when it experienced, based upon what it "wished", based upon what it "wanted", based upon what "felt good most",lol??? what CREATE good, is the only greatest sight or knowing of true good, not what "feel good", or as better, or as a "favorite", or as thru a bias, of simply what "one eye", hath seen, meeting a color, a situation, and feeling in time??? peace man |
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Billy...
Often I agree with standpoints taken by you... not always though!  If I remember correctly, you are one who believes in the existence of free will. I am wondering if the question below is posed for the reason of suggesting that the answer would warrant a belief in the existence of 'free' will... What is your favorite color? Why? I find that a little curious actually. Should you care to examine the question a little more in depth, philosophically speaking, we may be able to make use of it.
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Ok...
I am tarred a waitin'... The question has been posed... What is your favorite color? Followed by... Why? I want to say that the question leads one to nowhere... It matters not! What if we change the question while keeping suit? Can one 'freely' change their mind about what their favorite color is? Can I, for example, using my 'free' will change my favorite color so that it becomes what was my least favorite one? Why not?
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Thomas stated...
Free will is an illusion. We (for whichever reason you choose) do not instigate actions, but we only react to stimuli. I eat because I am hungry. I sleep because I am tired. I hurt because something pains to me. I seek out a mate because of an inherent desire to procreate or because I am lonely. The quote gives me a little pause which results from the second sentence. Conscious thought does instigate actions, as does the unconscious and instinctual factors. Pure responsive behavior exists without conscious thought, and therefore is not 'freely' chosen. This alone does not support a claim for the existence of 'free' will though, because conscious choice is not 'freely' chosen either. In order to choose 'A', one must know of 'A'. The will is not 'free' from external influence, therefore is not 'free' at all. |
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I am a believer that acceptance is key here, possibly the answer. At SOME POINT we will all have to accept knowing, or not knowing, or caring, or not, or having to move on, whatever.
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Edited by
earthytaurus76
on
Mon 04/27/09 10:20 PM
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We also may further "help" ourselves by not being focused on what need to be changed in the world, as much as in what needs to be changed in us and our attitudes. One person at a time... blah blah blah.. peace love, happiness.. Hope some little birds sit on your doorstep.
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I want to say that I would not disagree with the sentiment, and it seems to be pleasing...
Acceptance relates to what is already known. Layer upon layer the foundation is built. What would it be like to suddenly recognize that all which had been thought to be true was not? Is a single piece of new knowledge capable of such a thing? I think not. I am reminded of a debt of heart. |
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You must accept that you dont know to even move on.. without acceptance of some kind, you stagnate.. some people "agree to disagree".. same concept.. you have to accept SOMETHING.. that your higher power knows better, that you dont know now, but may later..that you may never know.. Yeah, you can go on thinking something is unacceptable.. but you come to accept you cant go on thikning about the same crap forever.. or something..
You know, the buddhists believe that wanting brings suffering. Maybe it was yoda who said there is no try in do.. or whoever said it.. lol... but the point is... energy is infinate, but everchanging, we keep our sanity with tools... we could ask ourselves questions forever and ever. I like the saying "it is what it is" There are FACTS in life.. Im not going to argue for a year and a half reality versus perception. But if it helps.. I hope you come to some level of ACCEPTANCE so you can move on happily. PEACE |
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ps.. hopefully what we call "tools" are proven to work.
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Interesting enough...
The same soul has a different face. Acceptance of something I suppose is more grounded than acceptance of nothing. P.S. Agreed! |
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