aren't you guys forgetting something crucial? Religious figures (namely the pope) rejected darwin's theory of evolution. Only until later was it accepted by the church, which implies that originally the two were quite the opposite...

Also, religion has been with human beings as long as we've existed - which for me proves nietsche right ( i think it was him who said this) that if god didnt exist, man would create one.

The religions we have today are thus an evolution of the pagan religions that we invented by interpreting the stars.

When looking into it, we see that the egyptian pagan religion had a sun god, who was born of a virgin, had 12 followers - the god Ra, in short had many characteristics that jesus himself had.

The book of the dead (the egyptian pagan bible) had a list of "criterion" that one would have to pass in order to ascend into the afterlife - this was reduced to what we know now as the 10 commandments.

Jesus' birth is simply a star sequence : study the stars and you will see that on dec 25th (jesus' supposed birthday) the constellation called "the three kings" aligns with the star in the east (called "bethlehem" pointing towards the sun, who subsequently had not risen for 3 days. (23rd, 24th, 25th of decemeber - the shortest days of the year). The new "birth" of the son would mean the promise of spring, longer days and warmth.

The connections are endless: we also see that jesus died, and three days later rose again, just as the sun does every year.

The sun is the reason that life is on earth, it gives heat, helps thigns to grow etc, and thus it makes sense that we were to worship it as "early" human beings.

But religion itself has evolved, and different "schools" have arisen, even though they all have the same source. Religion now has become an endless war, (what with terrorist attack in the present day, and all of the other religious wars seen throughout history.

If you ask me, evolution is the realisation in humans that religion is simply something we latch onto because we'd rather think we understand our existence than being utterly clueless.

"faith" and "the power of god" is in all of us, but it is not necessarily what we've labeled it. We've just been misinterpreting it as religion for too many years, causing petty differences in each other, which leads to wars etc.

Religion is therefore an element that holds us back from evolving, or at least, is a crutch that humans thought they needed in their first "stage" - because remember, religion is basically an evolution of pagan rituals.... think of sunday mass etc...

we haven't really changed that much (in the grand scheme) as human beings.

Evolution is getting over religion.

I have only ever seen the "Evolution=Religion" argument made by people who instantly discredit all evidence, and only use the argument to put their beliefs on a falsified equal footing with science.

That other stuff more recent such as miracles and such are put through years of scientific study by scientist that have nothing to do with the catholic church! After that and only after there is no scientific explination will it make the light of day as a miracle! The Catholic church is usually very carefull on what it puts out as a miracle! Same as saints, those people that are thought to be worthy are examined hardcore to scientificly see if their miracles actually occured or not! When there is no scientific means to banish the claims of what they did then they are considered miracles!

Well very often Pagan female Saints were also incorporated into the catholic church as a means of getting the Pagans on board with Christianity. Saint Brigid of Kildare is an example there. She is STILL to this day known as the "Goddess Brigid" in parts of Ireland and she is steeped deeply in traditional pagan spirituality and mysticism. The same thing would eventually happen to the Virgin Mary.

You are right, the bible is not a science book. Thats my point. Evolution is not in the bible nor anything else scientific.

For the last time, the word 'theory' in science does not mean the same thing as 'theory' as used by laymen.

Maybe this will help but I doubt it.

A theory, in the general sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of observations. A theory does two things:

it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena, and

makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class.

The term is often used colloquially to refer to any explanatory thought, even fanciful or speculative ones, but in scholarly use it is reserved for ideas which meet baseline requirements about the kinds of observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of that class. These requirements vary across different fields of knowledge, but in general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: i.e. a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena.

Thats right. Scientific Theory is formulated according to the scientific method.

People who are not really involved with the field of scientific research tend to assume that the word "theory" means you are blowing smoke out of your ass. Its really a bit more involved than that. After a scientific Law, comes a theory. Although the law is useful for engineering purposes, is a lesser achievement than a full blown theory.

After I read Charles Darwin's words with my own eyes I came to understand that it is merely a logical conclusion based upon observations of nature and it has nothing to do with disproving "God" or anything else like that. Its the same as finding out the Earth was round or the Helocentric solar system.

Yes and I dont think the Theory of Evolution really interferes with anyone's beliefs. Perhaps only 2.2 of the worlds' population. I dont know though. Im just assuming it only conflicts with those that want to believe that we "poof" just magically arrived on this planet all pre-fabbed and such. The whole "common ancestor" idea is just too intimidating for some reason and it leaves us vulnerable to the possibility of extinction like any other animal.

That made me smile.

I don't even try to reconcile it. I just point out to people that one is based on independently verifiable scientific observations other the other is based on faith.

"Theistic Evolution" is the technical name of this worldview.

As far as what I believe, it depends on what you mean by "Evolution." If you mean things change over time, then yes, they unarguably do. If you mean all life as we know it on earth came about by means of Evolutionary processes, then that is far more debatable for being far more theoretical.

If you mean the latter (life originated through evolutionary processes), then I would argue that such a claim conflicts with Scripture, which says God created...God created...God created.... It does not say "God created through a vicarious mechanism over ages, having left the world to create itself." That's Deism in a nutshell, not Biblical Creationism.

Okay?

I have no idea. My biggest question when going to church was any sort of explanation for dinosuars. I was almost 30 when I finally got an answer. God created man in his own image, but not in his time frame. He supposedly created the world in 7 days. I was told that His days and ours were not the same. One day to Him could be an experiment and then boom dino extinction. All the same, I think the most important thing is to believe and have some kind of faith. We are going to need it.

In the original language(s), the word "day" in the Seven-Day Creation in Genesis is the same word used to describe an ordinary, 24-hour day, as exemplified by its usage in other contexts in Scripture.

Yes, God is sovereign to creation, including time, but there is no need to allegorize--or to blur definitions--in order to make new theories or unnatural meanings fit. In reading "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," what does one naturally think that means?

Scripture is God's revelation to mankind; why would He not make it clear and straightforward in meaning?

As far as dinosaurs, you are right: Though beautiful and large aspects of our lives, understanding their existence (in relation to history or human beings) is not necessary to grasping Scripture or our own existence. There is some Scriptural evidence--I don't recall references, exactly--that dinosaurs could have co-existed with humans. Most scientists would disagree with that, though, obviously, since they go by their own (quite contradictory, frankly) dating system of fossils and the like.

Exactamundo Lionfish,

In the world of science before anything is accepted as fact, it must go through a vigorous step by step proceedure known as the scientific method.

1. A question is raised. For example, is the Earth the center of the universe as the Bible had us believe for years!

2. A hypothesis is formed. (hypothesis is an educated guess...) In this case, hypothesis would be no way are we the center of the universe.

3. Series of experiments are done and/or research gathered to test the hypothesis. Refering back to the above example, scientists would locate the Earth's position within our solar system and our solar system's position inside the Milky Way.

4. The results of the experiments and/or researched gathered are carefully examined and studied in order to reach a conclusion that will answer the question (refer to step 1 above.)

5. The results are then published in scientific journals and magazines with all the above steps documented in detail. The International scientific community then either challenges this new finding or accepts it as scientific theory (or fact!) In this case, the question is answered: The Sun does not revolve around the Earth, contrary to what trhe Bible has had people believe for so many centuries. Furthermore, our solar system is not even located in the center of our own galaxy, the Milky Way. And there are billions of galaxies in the universe, some much bigger than our own. And by measuring the distances and the speed and direction at which the galaxies are traveling, it is highly unlikely we are the center of anything.

The above was an example of scientific method, just a tad more precise than the Blind Faith method, which basically works this way; an idea is made up and written (2,000 yrs ago) and you are expected to accept it no questions asked!

That friggin' does it... I'm taking off the gloves. And why shouldn't the theory of evolution interfere with anyone's belief? Why are we walking on egg shells around the religious institutions that for milleniums have kept us in the dark? Do we not have enough evidence to disprove this whole fairy tale and make belief God and Satan, heaven and hell fables? This is not a joke... Religion causes nothing but harm to mankind. It's poison and has slowed down our progress as a whole. It was thousands of years ago... ok? We didn't know any better... Isn't time to move on? Can't we be good and have morals without having to fear eternal damnation and the fiery pits of hell? And that fear of "commit a sin and go to hell" never worked. People have killed in the name of their God ever since man created God in his own image... Can't we just admit it's time to put God and Satan to rest? Let's have a funeral for them and bury them for good...
Imagine a peaceful planet void of religions...
Peace out!

With metaphor anything is possible.

You speak foolishly. May-be this is true, that you personally, do not need religion. May-be you are complicated enough to understand the consequences of your actions.

But, without religion, how are you going to keep the billions of people from bloody murder, once you tell them there is no purpose, no design, no good, no bad, no nothing? Once they realize that both saint and a murderer die exactly the same and therefore there is no punishment?

You think you are the first who realized that there is no god? Wake up, this is the whole point of monotheism.