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Topic: Taxation without proper representation.
Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:09 AM
Edited by Fanta46 on Tue 03/31/09 10:10 AM


We have a system of politics where the majority rules.


No we don't. This is a republic, not a democracy. The minority clearly rules in some areas via the court system if nowhere else.


You mean when the majority opinion does not coincide with the constitution Im sure, and overruns the rights protected by it by the constitution.


It sucks when your wishes are those of the minority, but that doesn't mean you are without representation, or that the outcome on certain issues are unfair either.


And if your wishes are those of the majority and they are still overturned? What then?


Regroup, protest, and try to get more support. Unless the issue tramples the rights of the minority as protected by the constitution.
Sometimes we have to take our lumps and learn to deal with them.

Do you think there is any group of Americans who have never received a few lumps?

wiley's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:09 AM

The point at the foundation of America was, that the property and rights can not be voted away.


Eminent domain and the Patriot Act pretty much killed both of those.

MirrorMirror's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:11 AM


The point at the foundation of America was, that the property and rights can not be voted away.


Eminent domain and the Patriot Act pretty much killed both of those.
smile2 yepsmile2

MirrorMirror's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:12 AM
:smile: This country was founded as a Democratic Republic.:smile:

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:13 AM


The point at the foundation of America was, that the property and rights can not be voted away.


Eminent domain and the Patriot Act pretty much killed both of those.


That can be changed.
If by no other means than by voting out the idiots who imposed it!

no photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:13 AM
the Supreme Court reviews the laws passed by Congress. if they don't overturn it. it must be Constitutional

wiley's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:14 AM



We have a system of politics where the majority rules.


No we don't. This is a republic, not a democracy. The minority clearly rules in some areas via the court system if nowhere else.


You mean when the majority opinion does not coincide with the constitution Im sure, and overruns the rights protected by it by the constitution.


No. I mean when a special interest group of the minority throws money at the government via lobbying and delays legislation by judicial fiat via the lower courts. I'm not referring to the SCOTUS or its decisions.


It sucks when your wishes are those of the minority, but that doesn't mean you are without representation, or that the outcome on certain issues are unfair either.


And if your wishes are those of the majority and they are still overturned? What then?


Regroup, protest, and try to get more support.


If you're already in the majority how is getting more support going to make a difference?

Unless the issue tramples the rights of the minority as protected by the constitution.


Again, not talking about SCOTUS or its decisions. The government has been influenced by lobbyists for decades. So have the courts.


Sometimes we have to take our lumps and learn to deal with them.


That's pretty unAmerican. We're all about bucking the system, when its appropriate.


Do you think there is any group of Americans who have never recieved a few lumps?


Sure. Most of them are still in office.

MirrorMirror's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:14 AM

The point at the foundation of America was, that the property and rights can not be voted away.

And yes, this isn't supposed to be a democracy (mob rule), this supposed to be a republic.


:smile: We arn't going to go back to only letting white men with land have any rights.:smile: (Im not saying thats what you want to do).flowerforyou I mean that as a general statement.flowerforyou

nogames39's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:15 AM

the Supreme Court reviews the laws passed by Congress. if they don't overturn it. it must be Constitutional


Or, the supreme court may simply care not for the constitution. Which way, do you think, will build the members of the court bigger mansions?

wiley's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:16 AM



The point at the foundation of America was, that the property and rights can not be voted away.


Eminent domain and the Patriot Act pretty much killed both of those.


That can be changed.


Good luck with that. Eminent domain was the result of a SCOTUS ruling.


If by no other means than by voting out the idiots who imposed it!


We don't vote for the Supreme Court justices. They're appointed.

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:17 AM
laugh laugh laugh laugh

Good debate wiley, but the quotes are getting longer and longer.
I dont mind answering questions, but how about one at a time.drinker

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:20 AM
Eminent domain is usually declared by a State or community. Although the Feds have also declared it a few times in the past, like when The Smokey Mt National Park was formed, but it is usually done for the betterment of the whole!
Sometimes, IMO, it is a good thing!

nogames39's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:21 AM


The point at the foundation of America was, that the property and rights can not be voted away.

And yes, this isn't supposed to be a democracy (mob rule), this supposed to be a republic.


:smile: We arn't going to go back to only letting white men with land have any rights.:smile: (Im not saying thats what you want to do).flowerforyou I mean that as a general statement.flowerforyou


This was a good thing. Not in that only white men could vote. But in that only those having something to lose, could vote. White/Nonwhite was clearly against the spirit of freedom end equality.

I know, I know, voting on how to split the fruit while done nothing to grow it, seems like a logical thing and a right, these days. While I will surely be trumped by the dumb-witted crowds for saying this, I will still be right in saying that until this is reversed, there will be no economy other than fakeonomy in USA.

wiley's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:22 AM

but it is usually done for the betterment of the whole!


Yes. That argument is very popular among communists. Of course, we seem to be heading in that direction more and more every day.

wiley's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:23 AM



The point at the foundation of America was, that the property and rights can not be voted away.

And yes, this isn't supposed to be a democracy (mob rule), this supposed to be a republic.


:smile: We arn't going to go back to only letting white men with land have any rights.:smile: (Im not saying thats what you want to do).flowerforyou I mean that as a general statement.flowerforyou


This was a good thing. Not in that only white men could vote. But in that only those having something to lose, could vote. White/Nonwhite was clearly against the spirit of freedom end equality.

I know, I know, voting on how to split the fruit while done nothing to grow it, seems like a logical thing and a right, these days. While I will surely be trumped by the dumb-witted crowds for saying this, I will still be right in saying that until this is reversed, there will be no economy other than fakeonomy in USA.


I agree with you. Those who have nothing at stake shouldn't have a say in what happens to other people's. This is how we end up giving tax "refunds" to people who never pay taxes in the first place, among other things.

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:24 AM
In the case of the Smokies, it created a very large and important watershed and wildlife conservation area.
Im sure if you had lived in one of the many communities that were there at the time you did not see it that way.
But that is what it did and it made life better for a lot more people than it pissed off!

wiley's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:24 AM

In the case of the Smokies, it created a very large and important watershed and wildlife conservation area.
Im sure if you had lived in one of the many communities that were there at the time you did not see it that way.
But that is what it did and it made life better for a lot more people than it pissed off!


And for you obviously the ends justified the means. Again, I disagree.

Fanta46's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:26 AM


In the case of the Smokies, it created a very large and important watershed and wildlife conservation area.
Im sure if you had lived in one of the many communities that were there at the time you did not see it that way.
But that is what it did and it made life better for a lot more people than it pissed off!


And for you obviously the ends justified the means. Again, I disagree.


Not just me.
Millions!!!drinker

nogames39's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:27 AM

In the case of the Smokies, it created a very large and important watershed and wildlife conservation area.
Im sure if you had lived in one of the many communities that were there at the time you did not see it that way.
But that is what it did and it made life better for a lot more people than it pissed off!


I thought you could do better than this...


This just falls under "greater good". How many times does it needs to be proven that there is no value in greater good?

MirrorMirror's photo
Tue 03/31/09 10:27 AM



The point at the foundation of America was, that the property and rights can not be voted away.

And yes, this isn't supposed to be a democracy (mob rule), this supposed to be a republic.


:smile: We arn't going to go back to only letting white men with land have any rights.:smile: (Im not saying thats what you want to do).flowerforyou I mean that as a general statement.flowerforyou


This was a good thing. Not in that only white men could vote. But in that only those having something to lose, could vote. White/Nonwhite was clearly against the spirit of freedom end equality.

I know, I know, voting on how to split the fruit while done nothing to grow it, seems like a logical thing and a right, these days. While I will surely be trumped by the dumb-witted crowds for saying this, I will still be right in saying that until this is reversed, there will be no economy other than fakeonomy in USA.
:smile: Im not sure how that was a good thing only allowing people who own land to vote.:smile: There are a variety of reasons why someone would not own property (besides being poor)and our predeccesors had good reasons for overturning that rule.:smile: For one thing, it overly favors the wealthy.:smile:

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