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| Topic: Hypothetical question... | |
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elijay, my words need no interpreter but what the hearer of each access them as, and if your profound insight, see contradiction, then this damn well should be pointed out, if you are choosing to to be responsible for how they are to be defined??? put your money where your mouth is, and speak out the contradiction??? if you speak for me, i shall speak for you??? that fair??? that equal??? i do not say what you mean to another, as this would be but childish on my part, and most even audacious, and if you deem so fit to do, then so be it, but if i speak for you, giving you back the equal you have given me, then my sting will have a more insideous effect, and sting from the inside out. do we have a clear understanding, as equals, as to our positions??? do not do unto me, what you do not wish to come back to yourself??? that pretty fair??? what more does a professed christian and scholar as yourself practice anyhow??? as indeed, this be the very essence of what was written, that you heard not one word of. peace Just getting the chance to catch up here - sorry it took so long. In the OP's original hypothesis - we are to "assume" that He lives a life free from "all sin", and yet never follows a religion (okay - I'll buy that one for the moment) and has never heard of Jesus. Well - since it is a sin to reject the Holy Spirit's testamony about Jesus - the ONLY unforgivable sin by the way - it is quite contrary to think that using the bible as our standard to determine what sin even is (Else where does the term Heaven come from as the presumed destination) than we are confronted with presumtions that are contradicting the boundries of the original premise. Since the bible says that ALL have sinned, te original premise is already defeated - but since it is an HYPOTHESIS (that is - assumed to be TRUE) it would naturally follow that given biblical parameters - it is hardly unlikely that he would be rejecting Jesus - given that he has NEVER sinned - so we can safely conclude that he HAS accepted Jesus, else he stands in self-contradiction and HAS sinned by rejecting Him. Since heaven is an eternity spent with Jesus and God - it is a fooloish assumption to assume that the original individual in the original hypothesis incapable of knowing who Jesus was. One doesn't need to be a scholar to see this David. All one needs do is read the text. A child can reason this out. WOW 'Eljay'!!! Given your 'theatrical' background, and given the incredibly staged nature of this latest post, I suspect it could only be an attempt on your part to offer us a masterful parody, short of his signature punch-line, of our most beloved and missed PHILOSOPHER-KING 'George Carlin'. If not an inspired 'theatrical parody', than I would be left with absolute confusion and disbelief in the statements that you have been posting of late. Please confirm my 'theatrical parody' suspicion! Please '... TELL ME IT IS SO!!!'. |
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Well - since it is a sin to reject the Holy Spirit's testamony about Jesus - the ONLY unforgivable sin by the way - Well if that's an unforgivable Sin then I guess all Christians are doomed. If the "Holy Spirit's testimony of Jesus is through the gospels then LISTEN UP! Because this is what the Gospels SAY! Matt.24 [34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mark.13 [30] Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Luke.21 31] So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. [32] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. There we have it. To believe that Jesus did not return within the very generation to which he preached would be to reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit! The word of God! So there you go. All Christians seem to be rejecting this, so they have committed an unforgivable sin. But it doesn't seem to matter anyway because the rapture would have already taken place, and Jesus must have already returned and grabbed all the people he wanted during that rapture (which clearly occurred within that same generation of the people he had spoken to, if we can trust his words to be true). So we have already been doomed long ago. Evidently we're just the descendents of the rejects of God. The people who were left behind after the rapture. So we're doomed anyway. It doesn't really matter what we believe at this stage. It's a done deal, we're descendents of the unchosen people. To believe otherwise would be to reject the Holy Bible and the testimony of the Holy Spirit. That's what you're stuck with if you want to accept that the Bible is literally true. And of course, if it can't be taken literally then what good is it? It's just a book of literature (a book of words). If the words can't be trusted, there's nothing left to consider. What good are "God's words" if the words can't be taken as literal truth? The Christians claim one thing, but the Bible claims another. The rapture is over according to the Gospels, it took place before that current generation passed. That's clearly what it states in no uncertain terms. Christians keep preaching that we need to READ the Bible and so I do. What I find is that the Bible doesn't back up their religion. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 03/25/09 01:28 PM
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I would like to hear a logical explanation for that one from a Christian who is still waiting for Jesus to come back and get them. Seriously. 
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this thread can go on forever and ever. sin is definitely present and no man can say he lives without ever sinning. all we can do is strive for what we believe in and if we believe in higher authority, find out what that authority is instead of saying higher power and persue it. if God wants to reveal himself to us he will and when he does we will understand much more about who we are and what we need to do in life. we will get all the answers we need on our journey thru life. we might not hear what we want but we will at some point get what we need to push forward. we must be able to hear what God is saying to us thru our life's time here on earth. the soul never dies but our flesh does.
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 03/25/09 01:48 PM
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this thread can go on forever and ever. sin is definitely present and no man can say he lives without ever sinning. all we can do is strive for what we believe in and if we believe in higher authority, find out what that authority is instead of saying higher power and persue it. if God wants to reveal himself to us he will and when he does we will understand much more about who we are and what we need to do in life. we will get all the answers we need on our journey thru life. we might not hear what we want but we will at some point get what we need to push forward. we must be able to hear what God is saying to us thru our life's time here on earth. the soul never dies but our flesh does. To be free is the ultimate goal of spirit, therefore the highest authority is the individual. You are your highest authority. After all, it is you who decides. Sin does not exist except in the minds of people who follow the authority of the Church. Sin is defined as disobedience of God or of "God's word." And yet you must first define "God" before you can believe in that for a higher authority. Once you define that in your life, then you must decide and agree to accept that authority. But ultimately it is your choice to do so, therefore you are the true authority of your life and of your decisions. |
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Edited by
Jess642
on
Wed 03/25/09 04:04 PM
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Humans have created polarity. Good/bad...black/white..etc etc.
If there is was or could be a 'god'...'god' is about universal unconditional love...'god' is incapable of separation.... 'god' loves all, WITHOUT conditions. We are the facets of 'god' created so that universal unconditional love could be EXPERIENCED by 'god'. Humans separate. Universal unconditional love is incapable of separating...there is no sin in god's eyes. Man created sin...to control..to create polarities. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Wed 03/25/09 08:58 PM
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I would like to hear a logical explanation for that one from a Christian who is still waiting for Jesus to come back and get them. Seriously. God is an EVER PRESENT GOD. A NOW GOD. So is HIS WORD. His Word Speaks to EVERY GENERATION. God is the SAME... Yesterday, Today and Forever. SO is HIS WORD. When any generation reads God's Word, that Word speaks to THAT particular generation. Btw, So is Faith a NOW Faith( NOW Faith is....Faith is a Now!!} Faith is not a going to be faith..or a tomorrow faith , or a yesterday faith, but a NOW Faith . NOW FAITH Is.  And So is GOD'S WORD.
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Separation from God is a awful thing. First of all you have no idea. And second. That's your opinion, in mine it's great. |
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God is the SAME... Yesterday, Today and Forever. SO is HIS WORD. Then in that case, God is not the loving god that Christians make him out to be, Since he spent the OT killing people. Also, if his word remains the same too, then all those parts of the bible that talk about stoning people to death, for various reasons, aren't just stories, they are what you are supposed to do. |
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NOW FAITH Is. And So is GOD'S WORD. If you like the idea of God being "love" you should find a loving religion and save youself a lot of heartache.  You might want to give Wicca a try. The Moon Goddess is pretty nice.  |
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Well - since it is a sin to reject the Holy Spirit's testamony about Jesus - the ONLY unforgivable sin by the way - Well if that's an unforgivable Sin then I guess all Christians are doomed. If the "Holy Spirit's testimony of Jesus is through the gospels then LISTEN UP! Because this is what the Gospels SAY! Matt.24 [34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mark.13 [30] Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Luke.21 31] So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. [32] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. There we have it. To believe that Jesus did not return within the very generation to which he preached would be to reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit! The word of God! So there you go. All Christians seem to be rejecting this, so they have committed an unforgivable sin. But it doesn't seem to matter anyway because the rapture would have already taken place, and Jesus must have already returned and grabbed all the people he wanted during that rapture (which clearly occurred within that same generation of the people he had spoken to, if we can trust his words to be true). So we have already been doomed long ago. Evidently we're just the descendents of the rejects of God. The people who were left behind after the rapture. So we're doomed anyway. It doesn't really matter what we believe at this stage. It's a done deal, we're descendents of the unchosen people. To believe otherwise would be to reject the Holy Bible and the testimony of the Holy Spirit. That's what you're stuck with if you want to accept that the Bible is literally true. And of course, if it can't be taken literally then what good is it? It's just a book of literature (a book of words). If the words can't be trusted, there's nothing left to consider. What good are "God's words" if the words can't be taken as literal truth? The Christians claim one thing, but the Bible claims another. The rapture is over according to the Gospels, it took place before that current generation passed. That's clearly what it states in no uncertain terms. Christians keep preaching that we need to READ the Bible and so I do. What I find is that the Bible doesn't back up their religion. So now we're onto dispensationalism are we? Didn't Tribo already cover all of this? |
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elijay, my words need no interpreter but what the hearer of each access them as, and if your profound insight, see contradiction, then this damn well should be pointed out, if you are choosing to to be responsible for how they are to be defined??? put your money where your mouth is, and speak out the contradiction??? if you speak for me, i shall speak for you??? that fair??? that equal??? i do not say what you mean to another, as this would be but childish on my part, and most even audacious, and if you deem so fit to do, then so be it, but if i speak for you, giving you back the equal you have given me, then my sting will have a more insideous effect, and sting from the inside out. do we have a clear understanding, as equals, as to our positions??? do not do unto me, what you do not wish to come back to yourself??? that pretty fair??? what more does a professed christian and scholar as yourself practice anyhow??? as indeed, this be the very essence of what was written, that you heard not one word of. peace Just getting the chance to catch up here - sorry it took so long. In the OP's original hypothesis - we are to "assume" that He lives a life free from "all sin", and yet never follows a religion (okay - I'll buy that one for the moment) and has never heard of Jesus. Well - since it is a sin to reject the Holy Spirit's testamony about Jesus - the ONLY unforgivable sin by the way - it is quite contrary to think that using the bible as our standard to determine what sin even is (Else where does the term Heaven come from as the presumed destination) than we are confronted with presumtions that are contradicting the boundries of the original premise. Since the bible says that ALL have sinned, te original premise is already defeated - but since it is an HYPOTHESIS (that is - assumed to be TRUE) it would naturally follow that given biblical parameters - it is hardly unlikely that he would be rejecting Jesus - given that he has NEVER sinned - so we can safely conclude that he HAS accepted Jesus, else he stands in self-contradiction and HAS sinned by rejecting Him. Since heaven is an eternity spent with Jesus and God - it is a fooloish assumption to assume that the original individual in the original hypothesis incapable of knowing who Jesus was. One doesn't need to be a scholar to see this David. All one needs do is read the text. A child can reason this out. WOW 'Eljay'!!! Given your 'theatrical' background, and given the incredibly staged nature of this latest post, I suspect it could only be an attempt on your part to offer us a masterful parody, short of his signature punch-line, of our most beloved and missed PHILOSOPHER-KING 'George Carlin'. If not an inspired 'theatrical parody', than I would be left with absolute confusion and disbelief in the statements that you have been posting of late. Please confirm my 'theatrical parody' suspicion! Please '... TELL ME IT IS SO!!!'. David wanted to know where the contradiction in the OP's original hypothesis was - and I gave the biblical example of it. Surely we're discussing an hypothesis centered on biblical concepts - or did I miss something in the OP? Is this some Jesus or heaven I'm unaware of? Enlighten me on this one. Perhaps it's the Islamic Jesus - then I guess the point is moot then, eH? |
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I would like to hear a logical explanation for that one from a Christian who is still waiting for Jesus to come back and get them. Seriously. It's called dispensationalsm. However - I don't feel the need at this time to point out to Abra that he's just a tad off in his biblical exegesis. A simple examination of the dozens of threads that Tribo posted on this topic will clarify it for him. |
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God is the SAME... Yesterday, Today and Forever. SO is HIS WORD. Then in that case, God is not the loving god that Christians make him out to be, Since he spent the OT killing people. Also, if his word remains the same too, then all those parts of the bible that talk about stoning people to death, for various reasons, aren't just stories, they are what you are supposed to do. Huh? I hate to be the one to tell you this Inkster - but everyone walking on the planet is going to die. Wouldn't that mean that God is killing everyone? And other than Stephen in the bible - where would I find examples of all this "stoning" going on? You're really big on this. Give us a few examples to support this theory of yours that God's got all these people "gettin stoned". |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 03/25/09 11:05 PM
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I would like to hear a logical explanation for that one from a Christian who is still waiting for Jesus to come back and get them. Seriously. God is an EVER PRESENT GOD. A NOW GOD. So is HIS WORD. His Word Speaks to EVERY GENERATION. God is the SAME... Yesterday, Today and Forever. SO is HIS WORD. When any generation reads God's Word, that Word speaks to THAT particular generation. Btw, So is Faith a NOW Faith( NOW Faith is....Faith is a Now!!} Faith is not a going to be faith..or a tomorrow faith , or a yesterday faith, but a NOW Faith . NOW FAITH Is. And So is GOD'S WORD. I don't see how that explains the coming of Christ or the rapture. Many generations have come and gone and people are still waiting and looking to the future coming of their messiah. Most people don't understand the NOW. They live in the past and they look to the future and they ignore the present moment. So it the rapture is here NOW and Christ is here NOW, then why is he not acknowledge by his Church and why don't his people see him? Or is Barack Obama the savior? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 03/25/09 11:10 PM
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I would like to hear a logical explanation for that one from a Christian who is still waiting for Jesus to come back and get them. Seriously. It's called dispensationalsm. However - I don't feel the need at this time to point out to Abra that he's just a tad off in his biblical exegesis. A simple examination of the dozens of threads that Tribo posted on this topic will clarify it for him. Forgive my ignorance. Dispensationalsm? I don't know what that is. Biblical exegesis? Sorry, I don't comprehend that language. I think what both Abra and Tribo were saying is that the Bible clearly indicates that all the prophecies have already been fulfilled. In plain English it simply means, that the savior came and went, and then returned already and he isn't coming again. |
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The mossaic laws were given back then, so that man would keep the law.
Simple. NOT so that man could freely stone one another ,for instance. I have said this before: The wisdom of God (in allowing these mossaic laws), will always be missed by anyone , trying to "interpret " the meaning of God's Word, without the Holy Spirit yet in him. Let's look at stoning for instance. Yes..it was a mossaic law in the time back then...in that culture. Just as we have different laws today in our many different cultures today. But as far as stoning goes.... just because it was the law back then...doesn't mean LOVED oNEs went around willngly stoning loved ones!! do you think a loved one would willingly WANT to go stone a loved one? Hello? Ever occurr to some of you folks here, that not all people had stoney hearts back then ? Look at the wise king in the bible , for instance, who was presesnted with the two women fighting over a baby. So the wise king said tot he 2 women, "I will cut the child in half, and give half to each woman to settle the argument". (Now.... the wise king KNEW the REAL mother would NOT allow such a thing to happen to her baby... BUT the wise king ALSO KNEW ,that the womam who was NOT the REAL mother, would allow the sawing of the baby in half.) Remember that in the bible? And sure enough, the woman who was NOT the child's real mom,said to go ahead and cut the child in half...... Whereas the REAL mother was even Willing to give up her own child, to Save the child's life. See the picture here? GET the picture here now? The law was given so that man would keep the law.... which man was not able to do, btw..and God KNEW this all along ...hence the reason He sent us a Saviour . |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Wed 03/25/09 11:36 PM
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I would like to hear a logical explanation for that one from a Christian who is still waiting for Jesus to come back and get them. Seriously. God is an EVER PRESENT GOD. A NOW GOD. So is HIS WORD. His Word Speaks to EVERY GENERATION. God is the SAME... Yesterday, Today and Forever. SO is HIS WORD. When any generation reads God's Word, that Word speaks to THAT particular generation. Btw, So is Faith a NOW Faith( NOW Faith is....Faith is a Now!!} Faith is not a going to be faith..or a tomorrow faith , or a yesterday faith, but a NOW Faith . NOW FAITH Is. And So is GOD'S WORD. I don't see how that explains the coming of Christ or the rapture. Many generations have come and gone and people are still waiting and looking to the future coming of their messiah. Most people don't understand the NOW. They live in the past and they look to the future and they ignore the present moment. So it the rapture is here NOW and Christ is here NOW, then why is he not acknowledge by his Church and why don't his people see him? Or is Barack Obama the savior? NO man knows the hour of Christ Return..but all should be ready nonetheless..and keep their candles lit. NOW is the day of Salvation. Not tomorrow. Not yesterday. But NOW!!! Yes...God patiently waits.......cause God would have it that NONE perish..he wants to see ALL saved..and so do I. But God's Timing is not ours..... He could come at any hour. Or You READY?
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A man is born and spends his entire life free from sin, helping and loving others. He doesnt commit even one little sin. Never smokes, drinks, cusses, steals, lusts after another woman, etc... He doesnt even THINK about these things. He is unaware of any religion, and therefore has no reason to repent or accept Jesus as his savior. Is he going to hell? The bible makes it clear that you are either going to Heaven when you die or hell.People love to use Christianity for this question but lets pretend that Islam was the true religion and when you died and went before Allah.Even though you have never even mentioned his name do you really think he is going to just say..."Ok you were a good guy just go inside.I don't care if you believe in me or not".The bible also makes it clear that good deeds do not get you into heaven.It even tells a story about a man who was very good and very honorable who never did bad things.When he died and went before God and God said "Flee from me I know not who you are". |
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i said before this thread will go on forever. we are all different. though we may have some of the same feelings or thoughts towards a lot of things, we dont necessarily agree with absolutely everything. there will be parts of any literature, statements and witnessed incidents that we will always have a different opinion about. many criticize the writings of christians, muslims, mormans, catholics, etc. why argue a point to someone that doesnt see life like you? no ones religion or beliefs should need defense. it is ultimately what YOU believe. the explaination is only need when an inquiry is present. i myself am a believer of Christ. no denom. one thing i will not do on this post is try to force my beliefs on anyone else. no one here is exactly like me so i dont expect anyone to think the way i do or act as i do. we ought to respect the differences in our people and understand that we all believe in different things for different reasons. thats one of the things that make america so great is that we have the choice to believe what we want and live how ever we like. in some countries the option isnt available but we expect to put our people who live in a free country in our own little box. i have no beef with any muslim, morman, catholic, buddist, etc. you have your belief for whatever reason you have it. who am i to tell you what you should believe in.
with that said...IF someone is inquiring about what you believe because they may have watch you for sometime and feel maybe you have the formula to a better life for them, maybe your words would be more effective because they are open to hear and process what you have to say. i have written too muchalready so i leave with love everyone even if they cut you off in traffic(lol) and we will be alright. thanks for reading |
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