Why does he have to go anywhere?

It's a bit like the tree falling over in the forest, with no-one to hear it....

With no preconcieved ideas... or 'obligations' to any form of doctrine... he's probably going where I am.... the looooooooooooooooooong beach....

First you'd have to believe that you could actually exist seperate from God.

But if you could do that, then clearly you'd be something other than God.

If you're something other than God, then you don't need God because you'd be a God in your own right.

The very notion that you could seperate from God is an extremely arrogant notion. It implies that you could sustain your own existence without God.

True.

Jesus is the Only way.

(that is why Jesus even went back and took along with him .... back to heaven....

all those souls who believed on God ...before Jesus even came to earth as God among us in the flesh...

and THAT was because JESUS ALWAYS WAS...

even back then.....even before he came to dwell among us in the flesh.

Remember...Jesus is I AM. ).


So let's not Underestimate the POWER of God here.


God is able to Save to the Uttermost....and to the Guttermost.......and reach man

in ways, we know not yet of .


I believe God thru Jesus Christ ....

first draws man unto Him.....

then convicts man of his need of a Saviour......

then as man begins to open up his heart to God ,and finally

ACCEPTS

Jesus as His Personal Saviour....God then saves him.

Same thing happens with a child ....

God draws the little child unto Him.....and the child with

childlike faith, trustingly opens his tiny trusting heart to

God..amd recieves Him with trusting childlike faith

( a child will NOT reject God when God draws that tiny child to him....

in fact, I beleive God can present Himself to a child..even in the womb....and reach that child right there...if that child should die . )

Again..let's NOT underestimate the Power of God..or His Ways.

His Ways are MUCH HIGHER than Our Ways.

God would have it that NONE perish.

NOT ONE!!


It is not sin that KEEPS us PERMANENTLY cut off from God....

it is REJECTING God, once He DRAWS us unto Him, that keeps us

PERMANENTLY cut off from God.


So..as far as A man who never sinned ,is concerned?

Well....IF there is such a man who is sin free, that is..........

and then God draws that guy unto Him...and CONVICTS his heart of his need for a Saviour ,

then why would that guy suddenly sin againsnt God now.....by suddenly REJECTING GOD..if he HAD never sinned before ?

WHY SUDDENLY SIN NOW BY REJECTING GOD....AND THEN DIE IN HIS SIN OF REJECTING GOD?(WHICH BTW, IS THE UNPARDONABLE SIN).

But .....truthfully....IS there such a man as this out there?

No.

Why?

Well....let's take a look at what God's WORD says:

God's WORD says , " ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God......

meaning ALL are in need of a Saviour.



BUT once more..it is not our sin nature that cuts us off from God PERMANENTLY....

(Jesus already paid the price in full....for all our sins on that cross )

it is our REJECTING God, that cuts us off from God PERMANENTLY.

And who shall reject God, once God DOES draw and convict our hearts?

(which btw,IS SOMETHING God at the right time, will do with each and every one of us).


Then...when that right time comes....


WHO shall reject God?

No one.

Unless he has a heart of cold stone evil.

And personally, I believe one day.....

when the time is right.....

and the presence of God begins to draw and gently convict

each and every person's heart here on this forum.......

none will reject God either.

Not one.

I Love You All.

So does God.

Original sin is the most ridiculous sort of idea. It amazes me its taken seriously. Its circular and only makes god a hypocrite.

There's your fallacy right there MorngingSong. You fell for the blaspheme of the male chauvinistic Isrealites who claimed that they speak for God.

I see right through those horrible men and their evil deeds.

I find it hard to believe that you would believe that God is as sick as those barbarians. You must not think very highly of God.

indeed, this man has learned nothing yet, so shall be lowered into hell, the earth, where all good things are learned.

If he's never sinned - he's not going anywhere, because it's only the soul who sins who dies.

So he's not going to die, and is not going to hell.

Is his not accepting Jesus because Hr's never heard of him - or because he's rejected him?

if jesus be the way, then it only be the words of jesus, and these same words said "ye are all gods", so indeed, such doth lead the way.

did not such also say, ALL ARE AS ONE???

did not such also say, ALL are children of god???

then how is not each male god, and each female a god, just as jesus indicated???

would this not then bear true witness to "ye are all gods"???

how can only jesus be the only god, if this same jesus said "all ye are gods"???

would not just "jesus as the only son of god", deny the very essence of what jesus himself said???

if "all ye are gods", is not to be denied, then would not any name of any human, also have the same power to save, from delusion, if it speak what is deemed by any hearer to be as good knowing???

what speaker that deem itself as the tell of better knowing, does not subvert any hearer's input, so only become as a god of one???

how is not freedom, for anything, to save but from slavery, as serving one as greater than another, which would only be salvation from all not as equal???

if all things are possible, than any greater sight of greater reality, be all things possible, and not only what one has heard, but only from what seek most to preserve itself, in this life and the life to come, as such only find what it's self motive to save itself wished to find???

seeking to save self from death, and some condemantion, diobolically oppose "for one to save itself, it must lay down it's life for a friend", as surely it is not missed, that anything that seek to save it's life, only find what steal it, self interest of self alone???

there be far more possible, than what is heard from fearful ears seeking for self interest most, as to seek out what can be found to promise self what will ensure fine good delicasies, of fine treatment for itself, has made many victim's, from many belief's???

how is it misssed, that even jesus, when met with biblical text, quoted to direct him, called it satan, and refused to obey it???

It is. I have no idea why this concept came about - it is no where to be found in scripture. The bible contradicts the Catholicism concept of "original sin".

How so eljay. What about Romans 5:12

does it not say, "ALL ARE BORN OF SIN, BORN INTO THE WORLD SPEAKING LIE'S"???

this indeed, could easily give way to the pretext of original sin, less one see only speaking a lie, is not yet knowing everything???

What about it? This is not saying anything about the Catholic doctrine of "Original Sin". All this is saying is that because of Adam and Eve disobeying God - that sin entered the world. The result of Adam's disobedience to God was that we enter this world with a "sin nature" - not having already sinned because of the actions of Adam. This is the difference between the Catholic Doctrine and the context of scripture.

what is sin but unhappiness, and what is unhappiness but not loving, as nothing be happy without loving, and the veil that create the belief self is to be loved, is rent from top to bottom, and the sight of what outside of itself is not loving, become as unconditional, as what believing that self is to be treated with kit gloves, and unconditionaly loved, does not yet see this scar of perfect love, was but put there from where one first came from, from coming from such a place, and that this be not some guide and judge of other's goodness outside of itself, but rather the voice of self, telling self how to treat other's, with no expectations in return...

no longer but selling kind for kind, no longer seeking pats on the head for pats on the head, self idea's of perfect love no longer what is looked for in other's, as indeed, this will always lead self to pits of despair...

as it was said, no sign is given unto anything mortal, as some specific deed or word alone, as a sign of greater truth or knowing, less it first do what it's heart believe another should do to itself...

self saying and convincing itself it love, but only to what it wish a return from it's investment???

no such thing can ever find infinite peace yet, as this never was, will be, or can be, as greater knowing, as this would only but serve to validate self of self, and the only validation or peace of greater knowing for self, but come forth with each greater good it find in what it see as opposite of itself, even erasing this thinking that self see much evil.

what greater wisdom would or could or can be given to anything that but seek still with fear for self, and seek not for the sake of how to understand and provide and care, for that which it love.

it is but each good one find in what it see as evil, that provide good to self, even as a ladder unto good, that climb to the top of the universe, equalizing each thing it see as evil, asking for the sake of understanding of the other, of the why, and how, and what, such things can create good...

indeed, it take not any greater wisdom to eye spy evil, but greater wisdom to know how to love it unconditionaly, which be the only thing with knowing of how to truly free it, not enslave it the more, and this nothing hear, nor recieve, nor inherit, less it seek not all good knowing and righteousness for itself any longer, but rather for the sake of tyranny of it's own heart, that come to naught, if it cannot find what show it how to love beyond what give itself back good.

Well there is no such thing as hell, so no.

The way I interpret the scripture is that Jesus = LOVE.

The term "Jesus" means the same as Love. There is no difference. Jesus represents Love. He is not a man or a savior. The savior is Love itself.

Live in love and you are saved. They only salvation is Love. Its very simple for me.

indeed indeed indeed, so if self, love not other things, it show itself has not fount any true greater answer to anything called love, as if one has, then no belief of another tell self who is to be loved and not loved???

and indeed, this act of doing this, bring about emotional hell for self, not the one not loved, as to not love, does indeed create a emotional hell, as hell was only called emotional self pain, fire of self, demons of self, was it not???

to be seperated from god, to be seperated from loving???

as god is love???

oh, but this definition seems to be each thinking another should love self, and this be the thinking that create the emotionaly alone place???

i think i get it now...

so anything that self tell self, something about another, to make it not love them, seperate self from love and god???

so if one pick who to love, then itself has seperated itself from god and love???

is that how it works???

ok...

i think i see what you mean...

great insight JB, and always love your post...

peace girl

While we might find a scripture that says this - it is not the context of the topic of sin. Examining all of the passages on sin disproves this pretextual idea.

While I'm not going to try to argue a point that you're wrong - I would presume that the pretext of the original hypothesis is that one consider the parameters those of scriptural domain. Else there's no point of creating the hypothesis.

I believe he is attempting to prove a negative point with a rediculous hypothesis that has premises that are contradictory.

So - just play along.