Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: Economic crisis 'is as bad as they come'
nogames39 Joined Sat 12/27/08 Posts: 2752	Mon 03/02/09 11:32 AM
reaganomics was the downfall of this country. He invented take all power from the middle class. This mess we are in is solely on the Bush adminastration. The best thing we have going now and we better count our blessings is this is a world wide reccession. Or else we would be like Japans was in the early 90's. The world though can not afford for the U S to go down the tubes. They depend to much on us as we see now. Even Russia got ticked off and said thier bad economy is because of us. Research my friend, research. FDR, Wilson, and Carter did more damage than Bush or Regan ever did. You gotta know how our entire system works before you can understand what destroyed it. In fact, HOW it works brought it's destruction. Imagine that... You need to know how unions and employers work. When Reagan fired the Air Traffic controllers he gave employers all kinds of rights to striking employers against thier workers. You will not find anyone in a union at that time for sure that will not tell you that is when unions started down the drain.. Union are what also keeps non unionized jobs half way close to them. Reagan also decided to go after the Railroad pensions. Back when social securrity started the railroad was allowed to invest this money for thier workers. Talk to a railroad retiree and see what his reaction to Reagan was. Hewas an actor plain and simple who could talk good when the start of our wages not keeping us and alot going down started with Reagan NAFTA finished the job and while they was getting this passed they brought out 401k.Telling us this would be tax deductable and would be included with our pensions and social security. Well it did not happen that away. Companies started doing away with pensions and saying they would match so much of your 401k contributions. Another behind the scene jesture that took away from the middle class. It used to be even when Reagan was in office employers alot of them had a seperate pension for each employee paid entirely by them. How many people do you know who get a pension like that now? Well, I have read your post. You are posting this to argue that Reagan did more damage than say FDR? To support your contention, you describe the changes under Reagan administration, and only changes to those working for the unions. How does the harm done by the Reagan administration compares to that of FDR, Wilson? You did not make any comparisons. Also, how did Reagan Administration hurt those not in unions?

quiet_2008 Joined Sat 08/30/08 Posts: 11138	Mon 03/02/09 11:34 AM
Also, how did Reagan Administration hurt those not in unions? he couldn't fire em?

Drivinmenutz Joined Wed 11/14/07 Posts: 4290	Mon 03/02/09 11:52 AM
Our financial system is a model to others. Others who have been around and in the business of statehood for a lot longer than us. Why, because it works, and has proven to be the most sound. Doing what Ron Paul and all his followers subscribe to is sure to cause an economic collapse. Not just here, but around the world. He's a puppet and has no idea what he suggests. Thank God he has never had any support. Do you even know what he suggests? Do you even know how the system works? Appearently you don't. Because it's mathmatically impossible to keep a system like this going. Unless math is obsolete too, just like you suggest our constitution is...

think2deep Joined Thu 02/05/09 Posts: 1677	Mon 03/02/09 11:58 AM
drivinmenutz, i am convinced that some people on this forum have absolutely thrown mathematics out with the wash water.

Drivinmenutz Joined Wed 11/14/07 Posts: 4290	Mon 03/02/09 11:59 AM
reaganomics was the downfall of this country. He invented take all power from the middle class. This mess we are in is solely on the Bush adminastration. The best thing we have going now and we better count our blessings is this is a world wide reccession. Or else we would be like Japans was in the early 90's. The world though can not afford for the U S to go down the tubes. They depend to much on us as we see now. Even Russia got ticked off and said thier bad economy is because of us. Research my friend, research. FDR, Wilson, and Carter did more damage than Bush or Regan ever did. You gotta know how our entire system works before you can understand what destroyed it. In fact, HOW it works brought it's destruction. Imagine that... You need to know how unions and employers work. When Reagan fired the Air Traffic controllers he gave employers all kinds of rights to striking employers against thier workers. You will not find anyone in a union at that time for sure that will not tell you that is when unions started down the drain.. Union are what also keeps non unionized jobs half way close to them. Reagan also decided to go after the Railroad pensions. Back when social securrity started the railroad was allowed to invest this money for thier workers. Talk to a railroad retiree and see what his reaction to Reagan was. Hewas an actor plain and simple who could talk good when the start of our wages not keeping us and alot going down started with Reagan NAFTA finished the job and while they was getting this passed they brought out 401k.Telling us this would be tax deductable and would be included with our pensions and social security. Well it did not happen that away. Companies started doing away with pensions and saying they would match so much of your 401k contributions. Another behind the scene jesture that took away from the middle class. It used to be even when Reagan was in office employers alot of them had a seperate pension for each employee paid entirely by them. How many people do you know who get a pension like that now? This is a small part of a big picture. I'm sure every president in the last 100 years, with the exception of JFK continued to hurt the economy. The Unions have done their fair share of damage, this i know. There is a critical balance that needs to be achieved in order to have a proper working relationship between employers, and employees. You are wiser than i thought bringing up striking unions. People forget that the important thing in a business is the business itself. When too many people collect too much money they ruin it. So cheers. This also points out government interference with a free market is damaging... But, i stand behind my point of view saying, this is a smaller part of a big picture. Ron Paul aside, (once again i recieved information on the workings of the economy elsewhere), You cannot pay off debt if 100% of money comes from debt. Math does not work out. This is where our problems begin.

quiet_2008 Joined Sat 08/30/08 Posts: 11138	Mon 03/02/09 12:01 PM
I was just reading that the Steelworkers are gonna strike they want a "no layoffs guarantee" in their contract and management told em to f*ck off with that

Drivinmenutz Joined Wed 11/14/07 Posts: 4290	Mon 03/02/09 12:02 PM
drivinmenutz, i am convinced that some people on this forum have absolutely thrown mathematics out with the wash water. I know, it's called blind faith. Instead of trying to make sense of anything, they throw critical thinking, and just accept the system, blame everything on Bush, and continue to make the same mistakes he, and others made.... In fact, if the system does comletely crash i guarentee it will be all Bush's fault.

Drivinmenutz Joined Wed 11/14/07 Posts: 4290	Mon 03/02/09 12:06 PM
I was just reading that the Steelworkers are gonna strike they want a "no layoffs guarantee" in their contract and management told em to f*ck off with that Good for the management. The market simply won't adjust just because a bunch of employees say it should. Got nothing wrong with people getting together to make sure they get fair treatment. But sometimes they do cross the line and become the greedy ones.

madisonman Joined Sun 12/23/07 Posts: 4573	Mon 03/02/09 12:25 PM Edited by madisonman on Mon 03/02/09 01:02 PM
I was just reading that the Steelworkers are gonna strike they want a "no layoffs guarantee" in their contract and management told em to f*ck off with that Good for the management. The market simply won't adjust just because a bunch of employees say it should. Got nothing wrong with people getting together to make sure they get fair treatment. But sometimes they do cross the line and become the greedy ones. I agree you cant bleed a company white and you cant kill the goose that laid the golden egg. My union lays off by senority and recalls the same. I would have to say its been my experience that many of the older workers are troublesome but many of them have spent 30 plus years on the job and paid their dues. I have friends that work non union and when layoffs come it is done in an unfair manner they tend to wack the older better paid workers and keep the younger ones who make less and have less vacation time. Im sorta hopeing for a layoff fora few months being my senority puts me on midnights with so many guys laid off.(love the job hate the hours) my recall is guarenteed of course by contract.

AndrewAV Joined Sun 09/28/08 Posts: 1186	Mon 03/02/09 08:32 PM
drivinmenutz, i am convinced that some people on this forum have absolutely thrown mathematics out with the wash water. 514 posts and you just figured this out?

think2deep Joined Thu 02/05/09 Posts: 1677	Mon 03/02/09 08:33 PM
lol

AndrewAV Joined Sun 09/28/08 Posts: 1186	Mon 03/02/09 08:41 PM
I was just reading that the Steelworkers are gonna strike they want a "no layoffs guarantee" in their contract and management told em to f*ck off with that Good for the management. The market simply won't adjust just because a bunch of employees say it should. Got nothing wrong with people getting together to make sure they get fair treatment. But sometimes they do cross the line and become the greedy ones. I agree you cant bleed a company white and you cant kill the goose that laid the golden egg. My union lays off by senority and recalls the same. I would have to say its been my experience that many of the older workers are troublesome but many of them have spent 30 plus years on the job and paid their dues. I have friends that work non union and when layoffs come it is done in an unfair manner they tend to wack the older better paid workers and keep the younger ones who make less and have less vacation time. Im sorta hopeing for a layoff fora few months being my senority puts me on midnights with so many guys laid off.(love the job hate the hours) my recall is guarenteed of course by contract. You miss the obvious logic and have a skewed sense of "fair" then. Firing the senior employees that make more in relation means firing less employees overall. In my experience, those that are at the top are lazier because they feel they've done their time and have nothing to worry about. This is in non-union auto shops. They received every gravy ticket (basically any mindless work like general maintenance that pays well) and yet still put out less hours as myself, the most junior technician in a shop of 30, where I received half my cars warranty (that paid less hours than if the job was customer pay). Times slowed and some technicians had to be cut. I was always in the top 5 on the hours list because I busted my ass and never turned down a ticket. One of the 5 laid off was one of the 5 techs that had been at that dealership for 12+ years because he had low output and was paid higher. That, my friend, is fair. You keep your job because of the job you do, not because you were there longer. The union way of seniority cuts out the potential go-getters and produces lazy employees at the top because they know they're untouchable. Recall is another BS line. If you sucked at the job and were fired, the company is required by contract to hire you back before someone else that may actually be efficient at their job. Unions = cancer. plain and simle.

madisonman Joined Sun 12/23/07 Posts: 4573	Sat 03/07/09 03:29 AM
I was just reading that the Steelworkers are gonna strike they want a "no layoffs guarantee" in their contract and management told em to f*ck off with that Good for the management. The market simply won't adjust just because a bunch of employees say it should. Got nothing wrong with people getting together to make sure they get fair treatment. But sometimes they do cross the line and become the greedy ones. I agree you cant bleed a company white and you cant kill the goose that laid the golden egg. My union lays off by senority and recalls the same. I would have to say its been my experience that many of the older workers are troublesome but many of them have spent 30 plus years on the job and paid their dues. I have friends that work non union and when layoffs come it is done in an unfair manner they tend to wack the older better paid workers and keep the younger ones who make less and have less vacation time. Im sorta hopeing for a layoff fora few months being my senority puts me on midnights with so many guys laid off.(love the job hate the hours) my recall is guarenteed of course by contract. You miss the obvious logic and have a skewed sense of "fair" then. Firing the senior employees that make more in relation means firing less employees overall. In my experience, those that are at the top are lazier because they feel they've done their time and have nothing to worry about. This is in non-union auto shops. They received every gravy ticket (basically any mindless work like general maintenance that pays well) and yet still put out less hours as myself, the most junior technician in a shop of 30, where I received half my cars warranty (that paid less hours than if the job was customer pay). Times slowed and some technicians had to be cut. I was always in the top 5 on the hours list because I busted my ass and never turned down a ticket. One of the 5 laid off was one of the 5 techs that had been at that dealership for 12+ years because he had low output and was paid higher. That, my friend, is fair. You keep your job because of the job you do, not because you were there longer. The union way of seniority cuts out the potential go-getters and produces lazy employees at the top because they know they're untouchable. Recall is another BS line. If you sucked at the job and were fired, the company is required by contract to hire you back before someone else that may actually be efficient at their job. Unions = cancer. plain and simle. Come talk to me after you raised a few kids and a family. Those of us who have do turn down overtime and work after all who will take the kids to baseball practise and appointments? I dont know were you get your ideas from but even in a union plant there are ways to fire people I have seen many fired. What a sad sad world this would be if all we did was work.