Where's the popcorn??

I have to disagree Madison. I don't share the discontent others have for you. I know you seek answers.

The problem we have with our system is exactly the tried and failed methods that exists long before Bush, and stem from, you guessed it, 1913, under president Woodrow Wilson.

If you follow our system (i believe it's called the mandrake mechanism), you will find the the initial flaw was a central bank. This meant there can be no money pit into our system that doens't have to be paid back with interest.

The only thing that kept the system going was the fractional reserve system, which essentially allows smaller private banks to create money through loans.

If you look back much further to one of the first, if not THE first republic, in Rome. The actions that brough down the republic were first, the corruption of the republic officials. Then the next step was the expansion of the government and social programs. This was the result of the officials trying to win themselves votes. THe social programs weeded out the middle class, as they always do. Then you have the upper class, which was connected, and the lower class, which depended on these programs. Eventually they couldn't afford these programs. You have issues of runaway inflation which made the cost of living too expensive, even for the programs, and people starved. This is when rome became a full democracy. Basically that is a mob rule, which always ends up in an Oligarchy (small ruling group of elites), which resulted in the Ceasars.

We are taking the same course of action with our country. Social programs upfront seem like such a good thing. But it's extremely damaging, especially in terms of freedom. These are the tried and failed methods.


Social security, medicare, welfare, etc. No matter how many people they help, they hurt so many more.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
-Thomas Jefferson

well said.

reaganomics was the downfall of this country. He invented take all power from the middle class.

This mess we are in is solely on the Bush adminastration.

The best thing we have going now and we better count our blessings is this is a world wide reccession. Or else we would be like Japans was in the early 90's.

The world though can not afford for the U S to go down the tubes. They depend to much on us as we see now.

Even Russia got ticked off and said thier bad economy is because of us.

Research my friend, research. FDR, Wilson, and Carter did more damage than Bush or Regan ever did.

You gotta know how our entire system works before you can understand what destroyed it. In fact, HOW it works brought it's destruction. Imagine that...

Everyone keeps saying the creation of the Fed Reserve caused the Great Depression.

BS,
It was actually the long Depression, (formerly know as the Great Depression, circa 1880-1897 & into the early 1900's) which caused the need for a Fed Res.

The depression started in the United States following the Panic of 1873. The National Bureau of Economic Research dates the contraction following the panic as lasting from October 1873 to March 1879. At 65 months, it is the longest recession identified by the NBER. The depression has been dated from 1873 until as late as 1897.

And the FED continued to destroy us. Fanta do you even know how the system works with a central bank?

The use of Gold and silver as currency is believed to have been a major cause.

Why doesnt Ron Paul ever mention this in his Rhetoric?

It's my guess that he doesnt because it blows holes in his propaganda.

Oh well,,,,

He kinda does in a way. He says that gold and silver are more stable than fiat currency, which he is absolutely correct on, but he also mentions it's not perfect.

Fiat currency DESTROYED many nations my friend, simply because of runaway inflation. Watch and learn. I don't see our economy lasting any longer than a handful of years.

Principal/(principal + interest)

The math is simple. If you can circulate money without creating even more debt, you will have a system that will eventually collapse.

Common sense. You can keep paying loans with other loans.

There are other forms of currency to consider. Such as infastructure-backed currency. Either way, it's not fiat money. Dr. Paul spend large amounts of time studying monetary theory.

Our financial system is a model to others. Others who have been around and in the business of statehood for a lot longer than us.
Why, because it works, and has proven to be the most sound.

Doing what Ron Paul and all his followers subscribe to is sure to cause an economic collapse. Not just here, but around the world.
He's a puppet and has no idea what he suggests. Thank God he has never had any support.

You need to know how unions and employers work. When Reagan fired the Air Traffic controllers he gave employers all kinds of rights to striking employers against thier workers. You will not find anyone in a union at that time for sure that will not tell you that is when unions started down the drain.. Union are what also keeps non unionized jobs half way close to them.

Reagan also decided to go after the Railroad pensions. Back when social securrity started the railroad was allowed to invest this money for thier workers. Talk to a railroad retiree and see what his reaction to Reagan was.

Hewas an actor plain and simple who could talk good when the start of our wages not keeping us and alot going down started with Reagan

NAFTA finished the job and while they was getting this passed they brought out 401k.Telling us this would be tax deductable and would be included with our pensions and social security.

Well it did not happen that away. Companies started doing away with pensions and saying they would match so much of your 401k contributions.

Another behind the scene jesture that took away from the middle class.

It used to be even when Reagan was in office employers alot of them had a seperate pension for each employee paid entirely by them.

How many people do you know who get a pension like that now?

Yea it passed on christmas eve 1913 of a vote 2 to 1.. Yea that was a fair vote

True, too true!!

do you know how insane you sound?

What telling the truth.So i guess you do not believe what i wrote

In the early 1900, the FED creation had *fixed* the economy, the same way this *stimulus* will fix this economy.

Rich and connected, do get greedy. When that happens, they usually try to get the government to pay for their bets, under the pretense that if not, then the undoing of few foolish rich, will be the undoing of a whole country.

This is happening now, and it had happen before. The fed did not prevent this from occurring, as we can obviously see now.

Without FED, these greedy rich people who made mistakes, would have to become poor people, in other words, the justice will take place, and a mentally poor will become physically poor. Their place will be taken by some formerly poor, that had a mind to know what to do, and those that used to be right next to the failed rich. This is true back then, and it is true today.

There is no harm to the society whatsoever, simply because some greedy rich people made their own undoing. Any company that did not rely on credit, i.e., was solvent to begin with, and, that was performing a public service or production within what is necessary, will not fail and fold. On the other hand, any company that either had no capital (no reason to be in business), or was involved in bubble business, can and should fail, in order for the justice to be realized.

Anyone who was working for a foolish company, is a fool himself/herself, as he did not care enough of what is he doing. "I just do what they want me to do" is not good enough to survive. This is a real life, not a kindergarten. Those who do not want to fight for living, will not make it.

By bringing down foolish ones of the rich, the economy is separating fools from their money on every level. This is justice. Everything one learns, does, decides, or loses, does matter. If you think that being a fool half of your adult life will end up in you having the same level of life with those who were not, then you are fooling yourself, and believe in unjust system.

So, in early 1900, the FED was installed ostensibly to help foolish rich to stay rich, without paying any attention to the fact that since these people have committed mistakes, such an outcome will be unjust.

Bad character traits are not something to discount. These things have their reflection not only on the life of those who carry them, but on lives of everyone else, if it is an unconstitutional democracy as we have now. In our country, the democratic process was taken way too far, and is now the instrument of an economic decision.

Why was the FED possible? Because, it was argued that many poor and middle class people will suffer unnecessary. This was a lie. If it was a lie, then how come it wasn't seen as a lie? Because, fools are allowed to make decisions too. And what kind of decision can we expect from a fool?

Anyone not foolish, did not put himself in a position to fail. This is true of both the rich and the poor. But, it was only true before the creation of the FED. Now, it is much harder to say who is a fool and who is not, as the unjustice brought upon by the existence of the FED, made those good and smart to pay for those foolish and greedy.

So, in the end, it is always the foolishness and greed of the majority that votes for injustice, that is the reason for their suffering.

And now? Today, these hurting masses, that went and become Realtors, contractors, etc., without even thinking that forever going up prices must be a foolish idea, are now trapped together with the foolish rich, who not only placed their own life hood on the line by making dumb leveraged bets, but also the live hood of the fools below them.

All that this stimulus is attempting to do, is to extend the role of the FED. Because the magnitude of this crash is above of what FED was designed to normally bail-out. We are doing exactly the same as we did in early 1900. We are looking how to save the greedy and foolish, and to do that we will have to take away from those who were not greedy, nor foolish, whether they were rich or poor. This stimulus will prevent many poor people from closing the traps they have wisely set for the foolish poor. It will prevent them from being paid off in a just way.

The same process was, is and will keep happening in any economy with or without the FED. The only difference the gold makes insofar as when it is being used as a honest money, is that it makes any bailouts impossible, and the rich who do not have the brains will have to become poor, overtaken by those of poor who were too smart to be on a low level. This is justice. FED is helping nobody, but the failing rich, and the dumb poor.

By supporting the FED and paper money, you only support the foolish rich. May-be you're too dumb to realize that. May-be you want the life to stay unjust, where the poor are not poor because of lack of mind or a character, but simply because they were born poor. May-be you enjoy the world where being born rich guarantees you the live of rich, your own foolishness and lack of character notwithstanding.

I don't I want the justice. I want the one who is doing the right thing to get better, and the one who is making a mistake to cross in a lower class as a result. Next time you think of justice, as happens million times in your and my life, try to remember that the reason the justice does not happen, is because there is the Federal Reserve to help the rich when they make mistakes.