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| Topic: I'm On The Yahweh To Hell | |
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i have answered you on that already "yellowrose" ..you just never answer anything do you...you never answer the questions about Hell I asked you and you played like it was because you were stubborn ...but it's just because you haven't the answers I'm not disputing the existence of God or that Mary was a Virgin, I'm disputing that the God of the old testament was more than one entity and one of them was named Jesus ...all I asked was for you to supply evidence so that it can be debated ...not to cut and paste a definition of the trinity from the dictionary |
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Dude! If God can condemn his own children to hell than your God is Satan! Seriously, how can a loving God do something so fuqued up??? Where does it even say in the bible that the Church is a building or organization??? Please, I really would like to know???? You cast stones so softly but they are still hitting glass windows! what you talking about willis? "andyBgood"...you google cut and paste half the bible in your post ..can you give a brief synopsis |
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Edited by
iamgeorgiagirl
on
Mon 02/23/09 10:16 PM
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In Daniel 9:24‑27, a prophecy concerning the Messiah is given in three specific parts. The first part states that at the end of 69 weeks, the Messiah will come to Jerusalem. (Actually the 7 and 62 weeks are understood as 69 seven‑year periods. For the explanation see Hoehner 69/117ff.) The starting point of the 69 weeks is the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.
Concerning the first part of the prophecy (the coming of the Messiah), Wilson explains: Included in the prophecy of the seventy weeks is the specific prediction that from the going forth of a commandment to restore and build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince, there would be sixty‑nine weeks. Those weeks are weeks of years. After four hundred and eighty‑three years Messiah was to come. 133/139 Daniel 9:24‑27: Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place. So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. Then after the sixty‑two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. |
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Hundreds of years before Jesus' birth, the Old Testament of the Bible recorded the words of the prophets of Israel predicting His coming. The Old Testament, written by many people over a period of 1,500 years, contains more than 300 prophecies describing His appearance. All of these details came true, including his miraculous birth, His sinless life, His many miracles, His death and His resurrection.
The life Jesus led, the miracles He did, the words He spoke, His death on the cross, His resurrection, His ascent to heaven - all point to the fact that He was not merely man, but more than man. Jesus claimed, "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9), and "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6). |
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Edited by
Milesoftheusa
on
Tue 02/24/09 02:05 AM
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Deut 6:3-9 3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as Yahweh your Elohim of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey. 4 Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim is one Elohim: 5 And thou shalt love Yahweh your Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: 7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates. KJV Mark 12:28-31 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Yahshua answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; Yahweh our Elohim is one Elohim: 30 And thou shalt love Yahweh your Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. KJV Gal 3:20 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but Yahweh is one . KJV Isa 63:10-11 10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit : therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. 11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? KJV Luke 11:13 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? KJV Eph 4:30 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of Yahweh, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. KJV You are not Yahweh. Yahshua was or is not Yahweh. The Spirit can be taken away from you. If the Spirit was Yahweh then when you recieve it you would become a Elohim which is against the commandment of have no Elohim's before me. We all do this. Even Yahshua being perfect said he did nothing except the father John 5:19 19 Then answered Yahshua and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. KJV John 5:30 30 I can of mine own self do nothing : as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. KJV John 8:28 8 Then said Yahshua unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. KJV 2 Cor 13:8 8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. KJV Yahshua could do nothing with out the father. The comforter was sent that man could fight of the devil with zeal. A Trinity Doctrine is a doctrine of Devils. It says you are Elohim. What you say is always truth. Yahweh is one. all others are under his commandments including Yahshua and the spirit realm. Blessings...Miles Miles you are so wrong Jesus was only teaching us how to treat each other and himself God while he was in flesh form because he loves us all so much he sent himself to us in flesh form to teach us how to love each other and him is all. It is not 3 different dieties it is one God described in his differnt forms. Yahshua (Jesus) said he could do nothing with out the father to teach us that we all could do nothing without the father even though he is or was God in the flesh. Why else do you think he was without sin? Why else would he love us so much that he gave up his flesh life for us in more ways than just dying on the cross. He gave up a selfish life like most of us have, to teach us how to act and how to worship and love him. You can not be the son and the father to. The Holy Spirit is the power of Yahweh. You make who Yahweh and Yahshua is a Joke making them 1 in the same. Being 1 as you see it is no different that a married couple. They agree but are still 2 different people. The spirit is given to those who will accept it to grow as children grow. Knowledge. If the Spitit is Yahweh then when you get it you are Yahweh. How many worlds and oceans have you thought of and they just came to be. Yahweh is one. The creator of the heavens and the earth. Yahshua did the creating through the power of his father as he gave commandment just like he said on earth...Blessings..Miles try backing up your trinity doctrine with scripture. I did with Yahweh is one. |
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Hundreds of years before Jesus' birth, the Old Testament of the Bible recorded the words of the prophets of Israel predicting His coming. The Old Testament, written by many people over a period of 1,500 years, contains more than 300 prophecies describing His appearance. All of these details came true, including his miraculous birth, His sinless life, His many miracles, His death and His resurrection. "imageorgiagirl"...no one is disputing that Jesus was the Messiah the dispute is that Jesus was God...a person can claim or fake being a Messiah but they cannot fake being an omnipotent God ...omnipotent Gods do not die on the cross ...but their sons and other humans can ...only thing Jesus proved by dying on the cross was that he was only Human and not a God |
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i have answered you on that already "yellowrose" ..you just never answer anything do you...you never answer the questions about Hell I asked you and you played like it was because you were stubborn ...but it's just because you haven't the answers I'm not disputing the existence of God or that Mary was a Virgin, I'm disputing that the God of the old testament was more than one entity and one of them was named Jesus ...all I asked was for you to supply evidence so that it can be debated ...not to cut and paste a definition of the trinity from the dictionary reread previous posts. just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't answered. you are just ignoring |
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The life Jesus led, the miracles He did, the words He spoke, His death on the cross, His resurrection, His ascent to heaven - all point to the fact that He was not merely man, but more than man. Jesus claimed, "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9), and "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6). "imageorgiagirl"....Jesus were very deceptive when he first came to the people, he even said that he used parables to confuse ...so lets look at the parables you presented "I and the father are one" .. when I take a dump I become one with nature but that doesn't mean we are the same person "he who has seen me has seen the father" God made Man in his own image so of course if you see Jesus or any human you will see an image of the father "I am the way, and the truth, if you were the truth you wouldn't have to use parables to confuse people "no one comes to the Father except through Me."" if that is true then there will be newborns in Hell, babies that have died that were not baptized by their parents to accept Jesus will go to Hell ...all those that died in The Great Flood and before Jesus showed up are destine to Hell become none of them even knew of Jesus the Son |
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i have answered you on that already "yellowrose" ..you just never answer anything do you...you never answer the questions about Hell I asked you and you played like it was because you were stubborn ...but it's just because you haven't the answers I'm not disputing the existence of God or that Mary was a Virgin, I'm disputing that the God of the old testament was more than one entity and one of them was named Jesus ...all I asked was for you to supply evidence so that it can be debated ...not to cut and paste a definition of the trinity from the dictionary reread previous posts. just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't answered. you are just ignoring "yellowrose" it wasn't an answer it was a definition from the dictionary ...why do believers run to other books like the dictionary and science books instead of finding the answer in the bible ..but once you ask them to find God in the science book then that is when they run to the bible so that is why I ask you to stick to only the bible,or next time you probably will google cut and paste from a spiderman comic book ...stick to the bible ...I do and I'm not even a believer |
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i have answered you on that already "yellowrose" ..you just never answer anything do you...you never answer the questions about Hell I asked you and you played like it was because you were stubborn ...but it's just because you haven't the answers I'm not disputing the existence of God or that Mary was a Virgin, I'm disputing that the God of the old testament was more than one entity and one of them was named Jesus ...all I asked was for you to supply evidence so that it can be debated ...not to cut and paste a definition of the trinity from the dictionary reread previous posts. just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't answered. you are just ignoring "yellowrose" it wasn't an answer it was a definition from the dictionary ...why do believers run to other books like the dictionary and science books instead of finding the answer in the bible ..but once you ask them to find God in the science book then that is when they run to the bible so that is why I ask you to stick to only the bible,or next time you probably will google cut and paste from a spiderman comic book ...stick to the bible ...I do and I'm not even a believer you quote something you don't believe in just to hear yourself argue i answered you about the old testament and you ignored it. if there is one then i don't know the scripture and maybe someone else can find it...but i gave you may answer. scroll back and you will see it other than that...no matter what anyone says....you just want to argue. even andy has posted to you and he's not christian come on funches......get a grip |
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this is becoming a bore and i need to get ready for work
have fun |
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other than that...no matter what anyone says....you just want to argue. even andy has posted to you and he's not christian "yellowrose" ...so to prove your point you are using "andyBgood" as an example ..didn't he just recently stated that to resolve the religion problem that he would nuke the entire middle east ...I not trying to sound negative but he doesn't appear to be all that stable see I told you that you have a mentality that cause you to be attracted to people and Gods that make promises of mass murder and mayhem .....I bet you are attracted to Bad Boys and that you frequent places where self-proclaim bad boys congregate |
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I did put annotations and what I was trying to reference back in my post. You just didn't read it. My last two posts were direct references to what Jesus said was a Christian's place in the whole mess of life.
Trying to enlighten you on how UNCHRISTIAN you are coming off is a waste of time and effort. It is the same thinking and the same Piety that makes me want to wipe out the middle east because of too many blockheads making every one miserable with "their way" being the only way. You spend far too much time trying to rationalize your belief by diverting peoples statements against them rather than explain squat. Numbers of people have presented argument both backed in scripture and with personal philosophy but your answers are always short and always telling us how wrong we are or that we are not saying anything. You come off at this point like a guy with a bull horn spouting gibberish. Your whole belief system is based on fear, divine retribution, and hate. Whatever floats your boat... The reason I cut and paste is so I don't have to type everything from my little brown RSVP bible, the one I grew up with and studied for YEARS. I do cross reference everything carefully and I do things the way I do so I don't get accused of scripture bending. That is when people use one liners from the bible to back claims and arguments. Catholic Priests do it all the time. Needless to say it does not work on people who are fluent and educated in bible studies. You are coming from the direction of someone who has self interpreted the bible and evidently to me your mind is so made up that no matter what you are going to "drive your car off the cliff" anyway no matter how many of us try to stop you. I can't believe that others who I have been posting against in other forums actually agree with me in this through their postings that you are wrong in your thinking but in your mind WE are all wrong no matter what. Fine... So be it. That is why we have free will and freedom of choice! Still do not be surprised if your beliefs are part of what makes you suffer later in ways you do not even know yet. When you have alienated yourself thoroughly enough maybe you will find that staunch and ridged beliefs in fringe thinking eventually lead to loneliness and heartbreak. You are not our judge. Why do you even worry about another's salvation? Did you do something so bad in your life you can't face yourself and are trying to divert your actions upon others? I can at least face up for the bad I have done. I did what I did and I have to live by that. I have done VERY bad things in response to other's doing evil to me. If God has to punish me for acts of survival than God can go FU*K himself! Satan can also kiss my A**! NO two wrongs do not make a right. Three left turns on the other hand do! Hope you can find the peace you evidently lack because I am done here... Until you let go of your personal anger you will not free yourself of the chains you wear! L8r! |
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Trying to enlighten you on how UNCHRISTIAN you are coming off is a waste of time and effort. "andyBgood" ..that's probably because I'm not a Christian ...DUH |
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Then why come off like one?
I ain't one myself any more but I don't hammer them like you do. Evidently you really have not read the scripture you are preaching. So if you are not Christian what are you? Atheist, Buddhist, Islamic, Taoist, Shinto, Hindi, Agnostic, or and there is no shame in this because I have a couple of friends in this circle as well, Satanic? It is pretty weak for someone to bash on a person's faith whey the basher is not literate in it. Heck, I at least read the book of Mormon even if I disagree with it. Yes to me it is a load of CRAP. Jesus was not born in Jackson County Missouri, the Nefi did not exist and if they did where exactly did they live? Where are the two golden tablets? Oh, that's right, they conveniently were taken back. For "Christians" your beliefs are pretty out there even for me. So there! all you hard core Mormons!! If following a religion makes someone better than what they would be then it is positive even if it is misleading because people need some kind of example to live by. The only reason I am defending them here, and I really do not like defending Christians much, is because your brand of education is HIGHLY offending to more than intellectual faculties. Would you please be as so kind as to illustrate your Spiritual background so I can have a reference from where you are coming from in this whole argument? I am curious what you did study and from whom to have given you such a colorful outlook on the whole issue of heaven and hell. If you are Islamic are you a Mohammadian? If so you are aware he was an insane Syphilitic child molester with outspoken and bogus dreams of grandeur. Oddly I know many Islamics who feel Jesus was THE prophet, not Muhammad and they practice peace. I also know people who likewise turned their backs on Islam because of the Jihad. So really now, where is your head at? I am really curious now. You walk like a Duck and Quack like a Duck but I do not see a Duck making all the noise I am hearing... Metaphorically. Really, what is your faith if you have any at all and where did you learn about the Bible from? I had seven years of nothing but bible study myself thanks to being in a Lutheran Grade School. And you????? |
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Edited by
smiless
on
Tue 02/24/09 02:28 PM
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I think that funches is trying to understand the paradox of why people believe in a hell and if not then why people claim they are christians.
If we look at his questions one can find a wide variety of people with different opinions. What funches does is add questions to the debate that makes one contemplate deeper in trying to figure out the best understanding of the scriptures presented. The problem is that it may sound unpleasant, yet if we can bypass this and truly try to contemplate deeper maybe we can actually find a different perspective of understanding what is trying to be intended. I will try to answer his questions to the best of my knowledge on the next post. |
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Funches question: Is Hell still part of the Christian belief or is there an attempt to either brush it under the rug or play like Hell simply disappeared from the bible, do followers of Christianity today tell others of their belief without including Hell and isn’t this an attempt to be deceptive,
My reply: I think that we have different people who consider how serious they take the bible as the word. We have some who truly believe in hell and fear it by all means. Then we have some who do brush it under the rug. I also think people confuse hell with punishment using them both in the same term sense. I believe if one does something wrong then one should get a punishment that will teach them to not do wrong again. yet it seems some believe you will not get a second chance and go straight to hell - something like a death row and you had your chance. I think this is a term people want to use to scare others to think twice before doing it or you will end up like that person who did wrong. so in the end we have people who have different idealogies of what is right or wrong in life or what is said in the bible. Funches askss: are the followers that actually admit that all non-believers are destine to Hell now considered to be Extremists because they actually follow the Christian belief and spread the word of Hell without deception My reply: Well we have extremists in the Christian belief system. I think even those who are extremists don't even know they are this extreme, just like a fundamentalist doesn't know he or she is a fundamentalist. Yes I think they don't know how hardcore they are and when told they don't believe it. so in the end "when they are told how they should live" and if not done then they believe that when they pass away they will go to a "hell" and then there are some who believe if you don't believe in their religious organization and follow the rules to it one goes to a hell. then we have some who say they can't judge and only god can, yet in the back of their minds they say "yeah they are probably not going to make it", yet smile in your face then you have some who say they are christian but really don't study the bible. They just put their check mark in the box following the masses So as you can see there are so many different people with different idealogies concerning what is right and wrong with the bible they study. Funches asks: Also if Jesus philosophy is one of Love then why is he a part of allowing souls to be torture in Hell for an eternity and doesn’t this make Jesus hypocritically evil My reply: I personally think if Jesus existed then he truly was trying to show a different perspective of how we can coexist in peace as a human and the writers of the bible misconstrued his teachings trying to keep the old testament(in which jesus questioned) into the new testament using Jesus to keep the followers they almost lost in those days. yet you will see that many will say otherwise and believe that Jesus the son of God sacrificed his life to wash our sins away and Jesus would be our savior Well that is the best I can do in replying these questions. I am aware many will not agree with them and many will. So no reason to get worked up on it. We live in a diverse world of people with different idealogies of what is right or wrong. That is the whole challenge in finding the communities you feel most comfortable in. To bad it is like this, but in the end this is the reality of it |
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With religion aside may I counter with this because the whole thing evidently erupted into a disgusting furball of malaise and misunderstanding.
There is no Heaven and hell. In this life we are living BOTH! With the punishment a lot of us have to endure and all of the totally unfair sh*t going on Hell cannot be any worst. For the hard core Christians how can hell be eternal if the earth existed anywhere from five to ten thousand years if you go totally by the Bible alone. There is a LOT more to life than any god forsaken book! Hell was conceived as we as Westerners understand it because the Catholic Church invented it. It would seem to be an utter hypocrisy in and for life if we die and go to heaven or hell for eternity. Life itself does not even seem to have any meaning other than what we make of it. We all make out own heavens and hells. Most religions share foundations like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam more so than with other religions but those three have common roots and yet the three hate and kill each other. So much for the love they preach because it also comes with a demand for blind obedience. The fat is as long as we HAVE religion there will be a heaven and hell. Do you think the rest of sentient life on this planet, (Dolphins, certain whales, chimpanzees, bonobos, apes, and gorillas) worry about God? Dolphins have been proven to be our intellectual equals. They just do not possess tool using capacities. They have clearly been proven to think and rationalize. Chimpanzees and Apes alike have learned hand sign language and proven they are self aware. They do not seem to make up stuff to complicate our lives. It is an unfortunate side effect of us being creative and trying to grasp for understanding of the unknown and to control our environment including others around us. So is there a heaven and hell? I say look around you because we are in it now! And what do we do with paradice? Pave it, and put in a parking lot! THATS' MANKIND FOR YOU! I hope you are not taking this the wrong way funches because I don't know everything and I cannot read minds. But still, you do leave things a little ambiguous and it gets confusing knowing where people are coming from some times! |
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Smiless,
truely thou art the  peacemaker!
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Then why come off like one? Jeez "andyBgood" ..do you ever quit whining ..the topic is about Hell..not about nagging me into Hell |
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