Is Hell still part of the Christian belief or is there an attempt to either brush it under the rug or play like Hell simply disappeared from the bible, do followers of Christianity today tell others of their belief without including Hell and isn’t this an attempt to be deceptive,

are the followers that actually admit that all non-believers are destine to Hell now considered to be Extremists because they actually follow the Christian belief and spread the word of Hell without deception

Also if Jesus philosophy is one of Love then why is he a part of allowing souls to be torture in Hell for an eternity and doesn’t this make Jesus hypocritically evil

When religion is not selling fear the media and government via the political parties does.

When a population is ignorant and uneducated fear is an east tool to control the mind.

Even among the educated fear still works because a lot of people are ignorant by choice blinded again by blind faith and religion.

"The Principles of Rule" discusses this in detail.

Remember the Joke in Monty Python? Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition who's chief weapons are...
Fear
Surprise
And ruthless efficiency


and a fanatical devotion to the pope....


Oh...

and nice red uniforms!

According to the Bible Jesus wasn't sure of anything. The New Testament claims that he said that he did not come to change the laws and that not one jot nor one tittle shall pass from law. Yet, he denounced the stoning of sinners, he taught us not to judge one another, he taught us to forgive instead of seeking revenge, but all of those things fly in the face of the laws of the Old Testament. So clearly, if the New Testament is an accurate record of what Jesus actually had to say, then Jesus was very confused and inconsistent sending extremely mixed messages.

Also the authors of the New Testament have Jesus saying the following:

John 5:23 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"

So if we take Jesus to be the Son, then the Father (the God of Abraham) has committed all judgment unto Jesus *(See Note at bottom of post: I personally disgree with this entirely, as I feel that "the Son" simply means mortal men in general)

John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

Here Jesus clearly states that he will not judge anyone for not believing in him. (This is totally the OPPOSITE of what Christians claim he stood for!) In fact, anytime a Christian claims that we need to believe in Jesus we should quote them John 12:47.

But it won't do much good, because then they'll just quote John 12:48,

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

But this flies in the face of John 5:23 where Jesus says that the Father hath committed all judgment to the Son.

Clearly this text is ambigious and confusing at best. Why would an all-wise creator of this universe send such mixed messages?

*Notes:

The idea that Jesus was the only Son of God actually goes against what Jesus preached. Jesus said that "Ye are Gods". In fact, Jesus claimed to exist prior to the invention of the God myth by saying, "Before Abraham was I AM", clearly he wasn't claiming to be the Son of a God if he existed before that God existed!

Finally if we take the word "Son" to mean any mortal man (as we are all children of God), then it actually fits in perfectly with Buddhism and the Pantheistic view that God hath committed all judgement unto the Son. We our the judges of our own existence!

In fact, Jesus even alluded to this when he said that we will be judged as we judge. This is true because we are indeed the judges!

Personally, I think the whole religion is a train wreck as an institutionalized dogma. Clearly the words in the text are extremely ambigous and clearly sending mixed messages. In fact, Jesus was the antithesis of the God of Abraham so that's a huge mixed message right there. But the New Testament is full of contridictions and inconsistencies of it's own.

The idea that any God would punish anyone for not believing in a seriously screwed up mythology is absurd in and of itself. Such a God would not be a God, it would be a demon.

Yahshua had all Judgement as he is commanded by the father,

Thier is a difference.

He spoke that thier was a sin unto death. That sin is in constant motion for those who say they believe.

Yahshua is seen at the White Throne Judgement doing the Judgeing by thier works.

he never condemned anyone or blasted you might say but the religious elite.

They accused him of being in company of sinners. He said the well do not need a physician.

This was a double edged sword because they were the biggests sinners of all. Deception was the order of the day as it is today.

They got on to him for forgiving someone of thier sins. That nobody could do that.

Yet he said a simple word..is it harder to say to this man get up and walk(a cripple) or to say to this man your sins are forgiven.

They did not know what to say because Yahshua had healed the crippled.

He was simply showing them they were hypocrites they need a physical healing to believe. When in fact a pure heart and love for one another is all you need to heal the mind. The sinner.

All sins originate in the mind. As he said in the sermon on the mount.

The Law Yahshua Up HELD to it's fullests. No where in the law does it say you have to stone anyone. It may of been done but thier is no law that says you have to.

This is true with any death penalty, If we would learn from the law you would see that the victim has full control within the law to do as they wish.

Men took it and said this is what will be done. That is/was the commandment that was against us that Yahshua took away.

Yahshua's showing he had the right to forgive sins while he was alive is also telling us he did not have to die.

he knew that it was to come to that by knowing the will of the people.

They fullfilled the Prophecy not Yahshua being killed.

He ended by being obedient to the LAW and showing that thier is no greater law than one for another and loving Yahweh.

A friend is one who will die for you..The greatest friend. Yahshua said he was our friend and he proved it by example.

His ressuerction was because of keeping the law perfectly whether it meant his death or not.

This has always been possible but never done before.

Him doing this the father Yahweh granted all things unto him.

Forgiveness of sins through him. The father said he would gibve him anything he wanted if he asked and he askes for our forgiveness.

The sin that is not forgivable he has no control over. It always has been unforgivable and always will be.

No one saves you. They can't. They can tell you about the word but each individual decides whether they will accept it or not.

The theorocracy of you having an Immortal soul you can not find anywhere in the bible.

I would challege anyone to show proof that the bible says you live forever no matter what you have done.

Eternal life is a gift not a right.

The unsaved as most would call them mainly just cease to exist. They are thrown into the Lake of fire which no man can live in.

Yahshua said do not fear him who can kill the body but fear him who can kill the body and soul in Ghenna The Lake of fire.

The doctrine of an eternal soul and eternal torment came from Dante play.

The religious leaders of the day seen this as a scare tactic to win converts and it is still here today.

No different than when Yahshua walked the earth and said you prefer the doctrines of men over the commandments of Yahweh and they do.

Any one who teaches men will be tortured in hell forever should read these verses.

Matt 5:16-20

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
KJV


Notice people will even make it to the kingdom who break a commandment and teach men so.

So why are the scribes and Pharasees not going to make it?

Because they teach deception.

They teach as if it were sowhen it is a lie.

That is why you must exceed the righyeuosness of the scribes and Pharasees.

they took it upon them selves to add to the word and to take away.

Eternal torment is adding to the word.

What do we see at the end of the book.

Rev 22:18-19

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, Yahweh shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Yahweh shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
KJV

This apperently means doing away with the law.

The ones who claim the Holy bible and do these things are in far more trouble than the unbeliever ever will be.

As Yahshua says about you who do this..

Matt 19:1-20:1
19:1 And it came to pass, that when Yahshua had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan;
2 And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
13 Then were there brought unto him little children , that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Yahshua said, Suffer little children , and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, Yahweh: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Yahshua said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Yahshua beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with Yahweh all things are possible.
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Yahshua said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children , or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.


KJV

This has very deep meaning to it.

The children are whoever you run across and tell them lies about the book. You risk the Judgement when you do this.

The Euruchs are can be several different people as he says only those who can bear it would be those who keep themselves spotless. Stay virgins for the word.

They are also the ones who come and hear the word but reject it because you are no speaking the words of Yahweh but the words of man.

He speaks about divorce also this is the ones who are young in believeing and then see the Hypocracy and so they leave and metaphorically divorce from the believers.


These again are the children as we all are told we are children.

So if you stick by the word and not what men say you have nothing to worry about.

If you stick by man made doctrines you have condemned yourself and it would of been better if you were never had been born..Blessings...Miles

this is what I meant by "The Trinity Hustle" ...passing the buck from the Father to the son or to the holy spirit, that way no one can be accused of doing anything ...a disclaimer is always provided to absolve all of any potential wrong doing

The Trinity is a Doctrine of Man.. The scholars books even say so

"Before Abraham was I Am" could be Jesus displaying a holier than thou attitude ...translated or perhaps mis-interpeted it could mean that it took less time for Jesus to be in the grace of God then it took Abraham

There is no Hell in Jewish thought, Hell is a Pagan concept that the Xians stole and mortified..

That is true. Do away with the law and any bag of tricks is ok.. Blessings...Miles

Just because some don't believe today, doesn't mean they won't believe later.

But for those who have heard and heard and understood the Good news, and STILL reject Jesus as Lord,

even after hearing and understanding...even to the point of their last dying breath even?

Then they WILL be cut off from God....separated from God.

I mean, God will NOT force someone to be with Him....so if a person is not with God..they will be APART from God.

And that place apart from God is called Hell.


Scripture says that Even Jesus decended into hell, and took the keys of hell and the grave...

meaning that hell is a real place.

Now, there is something called a lake of fire....which is apart from hell......

which is where satan and the false prophet will go in the final judgment.....

and where all in hell will also will be brought up, to stand befoe God in that final judgment also.

So if people will be brought up from hell to stand before Almighty God in the final judgemnt,

then that means they will still be aware and alive.

Even thought scripture says that Hell was designed for satan and all his angels ,and not for man.......

nevertheless,

any one that rejects Christ ..even when all attempts are made to reach him....will go to hell.

But God sends no one there..man send himself there by rejecting Jesus....

over and over and over and over..even in his final breath.

But God gives chance after chance also..
for man to beleive on Him and to recieve Him...

but God cannot and will not force anyone to beleive and recieve Him .


Hell is Real, Folks......Hell is NOT some Joke .


People need to realize hell is not some laughing matter.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/hellreal.htm

MS

This exactly what I am talking about. Going to a site and saying read this. Basing your belief from the belief of others.


What are you going to do if this happens..

Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour , that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
KJV


Do you believe that?

Do you think Yahweh when he says this is talking about those who do not already know the scriptures like the back of thier hand and practice them.

Pasting anything other than scripture you have studied and know to be true does nothing but amuse yourself.

When these letters after the Evangels were written they did not have scrolls.

They had to rely on memoory and where did the Apostles tell them to go to learn this knowledge?

Acts 15:18-21

18 "Known to Yahweh from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to Elohim, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."
NKJV


Notice what they said they should do.

21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."
NKJV

To go worship on the Sabbath at the Synagogues.

What was taught thier Moses.

What was Moses related to in all minds then?

The Law.

The biggest problem in learning the scriptures is we do not believe them.

We want to believe man instead.

Man is not to teach you MS.. I am living proof.


Heb 8:10-11

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Yahweh; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a Elohim, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know Yahweh : for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
KJV

How will they know who is his?

for 1..
1 Peter 3:15
5 But sanctify Yahweh Elohim in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
KJV


This is all the Old Testament wtitings being understood in the new with the Spirit of Truth.

Yahweh will be your guide if you trust him and no other.Does not mean you can not trust others. It does mean Yahweh is the final authority and if someone says something against the law then you must study to shew yourself approved and know in your heart and mind it is true.

Even the Apostles did this.


As for the dead.


Ps 115:17

17 The dead praise not Yahweh, neither any that go down into silence.
KJV


The dead are silent. Yahshua gave the answer to this.

John 11:11
1 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
KJV


Even Yahshua spoke of Lazarus sleeping.

Did anyone else have the thought and believed we sleep at deat


John 11:23-24

23 Yahshua saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
KJV


Martha knew he was not in hell or heaven. Just by her words to Yahshua.

I Know he will rise again at the Resurrection.


What about Yahshua you quoted from Peter going into Hell?

1 Peter 3:14-22

14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

15 But sanctify Yahweh Elohim in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Messiah.

17 For it is better, if the will of Elohim be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

18 For Messiah also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to Elohim, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of Elohim waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward Yahweh,) by the resurrection of Yahshua our Messiah:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of Yahweh; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
KJV

On the surface just reading that it seems Yahshua was not really dead those 3 days but went to the spirits in Hell.

Can that possibly be true?

What else did Yahshua say after coming alive?

John 20:17

17 Yahshua saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my Elohim, and your EL.
KJV

Why could Yahshua not be touched?

He had to be a unspotted sheep prepared before his father to accept the sacrafice he had done.

If he was alive as Peter seems to say then he would not of been pure when he rose to his father.

He could not of been the messiah for the thier rose before he did.

But when you realize that all who have died are in a state of sleep they have no conscience of time.

When they are awaken it will be equal the same for all. Each will think that they had just died and woke up.

A fair and Just Elohim.

Now about the spirits why is that mentioned.

He is giving the spirits that rebelled a chance to repent themselves and his death and reserrection for mankind is thier witness Yahshua can forgive them for leaving thier heavenly abode.

Because all judgement in Heaven and earth are his now.


MS Throw away all your books except for bibles and reference books and prove what you believe with an open heart and The Spirit of Truth promices to reveal the Mysteries men have hungered for all time. Blessings of Shalom...Miles

Since all this is just a holographic reality created by the holodeck in JeannieBeans spaceship, then what does it all matter anyway?

I asked this in another thread. I'm just curious as to why and hope someone can explain it

if someone doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell....why does it matter what others think?

again..I'm just curious

"I'm On The Yahweh To Hell"

Clever

Most don't execpt for when it gets shoved down your throat, or they stack a school board to shove it down your children's throat, etc, etc... There would be no problem if it was live and let live... you know when you were young and your life was an open book you used say live and let live (you know you did, you know you did, you know you did) but in this ever change in world in which we live, makes you break down and cry... say live and let die!!

I am sorry if people have shoved it down your throat. wouldn't it be easier to just say I don't believe so it doesn't matter???

If there was a religion I didn't agree with...not sure it would matter to me what was said and if they kept on...i'd let them know

You would thin that they would respect others opinions but there you would be wrong again.

Yours is to say The word is something to be sought for,looked for like fine gold.

not to convice anyone. Yours is to just say the word and it will fall on good ground and grow or bad ground and be brushed away.

The word hell in the English language is from old English it is where you planted your Potatoes. In the earth.

They realised that when they saw Hell it meant being buried not a firey place of torture.

The Lake of Fire is the end off all things that are thrown into it.

That does not happen untill after the 1000 year regiegn of Yahshua. You are destroyed if not written in the book of life.

When judgement happenes you are judged by your works not your obediemce to Yahweh.

Murders ect, scriptures say will not enter the kingdom.

In these same passages in Rev 19 it says all the dead in the sea ground or wherever they maybe are brought forth before Yahshua. This is the 2nd Death.

The 1st death is when you simply died the 2nd death you are no more.

That is why it says the saints have no worry about the 2nd death because they will not be judged.

Hell is simply a scare tactic. Not found in the bible. It has been put in thier in place of like sheol and Gehenna.

I believe Gehenna was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It says the worm does not die.

Simply put any garbage dump has worms and they never die.

Not talking about us at all.

Preach the Kingdom of Yahweh is at Hand to heal the broken hearted and let the oppressed go free.

Then your treasures in heaven will multiply.

Not a doctrine of fear. Fear in this manner of going to hell will always turn the one who was scared away eventually then thier blood is on your hands for lying to them.. Blessings...Miles

true...but I can't control what others do...just myself...years of learning the hard way taught me that lol


see???? i can learn

"Milesoftheusa" ..I have to agree..even Jesus said that only the father knows certain things ...since god is supposedly omniscient and Jesus admitted to a lack knowledge of certain events this proves that Jesus was not all knowing and therefore not a God ...Jesus's own words disproves the trinity