All that was changed was that it was determined that 3.0 to 3.5% of the population doesn't want to work...therefore you will never get to zero...therefore they took out those lazy asshole from the "counted"..

I regularly buy food and protect my home now and before

I beleive theres more to it than that.. But hey I say let it fall!!!! Dosnt scare me!!!!!!

it was worse in the 80's, this hasn't been close to the 80's recession yet (I say "yet")

Did YOU also know that every states unemployment statistics
are only based on the ones actively receiving unemployment?

In other words,,,everyone who was drawing unemployment,,and then it runs out...THEY are now considered WORKING by the unemployment office records.

So as they NOW say we have 5 million people drawing unemployment that we really have at least another million or MORE who are NOT even being shown their alive out here STILL WITHOUT WORK...truth..

And as for me in a PANIC,,lol,I have FOUGHT OUT CRIES all my life and THIS problem is a reality...

NOT a PANIC but a stright out HEADS-UP for all you folks who can't see and talk to all the people I do on the road each week,,,and in MANY states...

If the government allows people to run out of their unemployment checks....THEN THIS will be THEIR ONLY out once their is no more
food in the food banks......THATS CALLED TRUTH,,,not A PANIC ATTACK .

All the above notwithstanding, the one thing I've noticed is that .223 rem and 7.62x39 ammunition is all but unavailable in most of the big box stores I've been in recently. I stocked up before the election but the store manager I spoke to said he hadn't been able to keep .223 on the shelves since November.. what happened in November that might have initiated a constant run on small caliber rifle ammo???

talk about barter? you know what ar-15 magazines will bring? been to a gun show recently and seen people hand-trucking out their ammo purchases.. look at what the gun market is doing to see how close the economy is to really going through the floor.

got .223?

I agree. We are in a Drepression, capital D.

Last time 75% of the year's income went to 25% of the working people was before the GD hit.

Last time the housing marked was this bad was during the GD. If fact, I saw the other day that it is actually worse right now.

A few months back, there was an article showing the way unemployment is calculated then and now. And using the data at the time of that article, using the OLD method of calculation, were were nearly at GD unemployment numbers. With the jump in unemployment over the last couple months, I think we have hit it.

All these Fraud charges starting to come to light also give evident to the fact we need to start using that capital D.

For a long time, government and economists refused to say we are in a recession. But now they are starting to admit that we have been in one for at least 13 months!

They are predicting a decade to recover and the likelihood that our scaled-down way of life will be a permanent thing.

Why doesn't it seem as bleak? I think it is because we don't have the mass suicides that happened before. People are tightening their belts, but not giving up or giving over to hopelessness and helplessness.

People don't really expect the bank bailouts to work or the stimulus package to stimulate much. On the other hand, we didn't all rush out to the banks and withdraw all our money. We didn't panic. Which may have contributed to the bleakness of the 1930's.

We have a more positive outlook. I think it is because we look back on the Great Depression, see that we survived it, and know that we can do so again because this isn't the end of the world.

Articles on the topic over the past 3 or 4 months have been agreeing that the Great Depression had unemployment at about 16%. Some places higher, some lower, but right around there over all.

When we were down at 6%, a Reuter's article showed the difference in the math. With the old formula, we were getting close to 14% I think. The article I saw earlier this week says that we have hit 9% unemployment by the new formula. So we have to be hitting that 16% now.

I cannot rememeber what year they changed the criteria for what they used to calculate unemployment. I thought it might have been the 50's or 60's. I'll try to find it again. But it dramatically reduced unemployment figures and that was part of the reason for changing the formula. So it looked better on the books and made the country look more prosperous.

This country and its people will always survive any obstacles to our future. However, this country turned to importing MORE than it produced here to have..So ALL these factories closed,,,over and over,,,for the last 40 years.. NOW we do not own,have,or CAN...RE-start all them companies over,,in the coarse of 6 months.
This land slide of jobs leaving, is because of no business for them to make money coming in. Because it started as a stop in spending. But NOW
because of false panic,,,To many companies have left and or closed.

How can ANY President or Government REPLACE over-night, what it took to remove over the past 40 years?

Then its a catch 21,,WE are not lending OUT monies without SHOWING your eligibility....So even if YOU wanted to start a company that was badly NEEDED here NOW,,,THEY(lenders) would not be able to loan you the money.

I am a realist and you can bet your azz,,,that if I was about to lose my home and I had children that depended on me to feed them,,,,,I would do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to do THAT!

As will MANY, MANY others out here...

So we all need to try and convince the government to NOT LET THIS HAPPEN... WE would all be in food lines to eat.
And by the way,,I am still working at my job.
But I have MANY,MANY friends who MIGHT be facing this very big reality...

Big difference between the Great Depression and now: many more lived on farms then. Also, much more industry. Now all industry has moved to China.

Was the family farmer purposely driven out of business in the 80's? How about a history lesson?
--------------------------------------------------------------

One of the principal but little known operations of the Rockefeller Foundation has been its techniques for controlling world agriculture. Its director, Kenneth Wernimont, set up Rockefeller controlled agricultural programs throughout Mexico and Latin America. The independent farmer is a great threat to the World Order, because he produces for himself, and because his produce can be converted into capital, which gives him independence. In Soviet Russia, the Bolsheviks believed they had attained total control over the people; they were dismayed to find their plans threatened by the stubborn independence of the small farmers, the Kulaks.

Stalin ordered the OGPU to seize all food and animals of the Kulaks, and to starve them out. The Chicago American, February 25, 1935 carried a front page headline, SIX MILLION PERISH IN SOVIET FAMINE; Peasants' Crops Seized, They and their Animals Starve. To draw attention from this atrocity, it was later alleged that the Germans, not the Soviets, had killed six million people, the number taken from the Chicago American headline by a Chicago publicist.

The Communist Party, the Party of the Peasants and Workers, exterminated the peasants and enslaved the workers. Many totalitarian regimes have found the small farmer to be their biggest stumbling block. The French Reign of Terror was directed, not against the aristocrats, many of whom were sympathetic to it, but against the small farmers who refused to turn over their grain to the revolutionary tribunals in exchange for the worthless assignats. In the United States, the foundations are presently engaged in the same type of war of extermination against the American farmer.

The traditional formula of land plus labor for the farmer has been altered due to the farmer's need for purchasing power, to buy industrial goods needed in his farming operations. Because of this need for capital, the farmer is especially vulnerable to the World Order's manipulation of interest rates, which is bankrupting him.

Just as in the Soviet Union, in the early 1930s, when Stalin ordered the Kulaks to give up their small plots of land to live and work on the collective farms, the American small farmer faces the same type of extermination, being forced to give up his small plot of land to become a hired hand for the big agricultural trusts.

The Brookings Institution and other foundations originated the monetary programs implemented by the Federal Reserve System to destroy the American farmer, a replay of the Soviet tragedy in Russia, with one proviso that the farmer will be allowed to survive if he becomes a slave worker of the giant trusts.

Once the citizen becomes aware of the true role of the foundations, he can understand the high interest rates, high taxes, the destruction of the family, the degradation of the churches into forums for revolution, the subversion of the universities into CIA cesspools of drug addiction, and the halls of government into sewers of international espionage and intrigue.

The American citizen can now understand why every agent of the federal government is against him; the alphabet agencies, the FBI, IRS, CIA and BATF must make war on the citizen in order to carry out the programs of the foundations.

The foundations are in direct violation of their charters, which commit them to do "charitable" work, because they make no grants which are not part of a political goal. The charge has been made, and never denied, that the Heritage-AEI network has at least two KGB moles on its staff. The employment of professional intelligence operatives as "charitable" workers, as was done in the Red Cross Mission to Russia in 1917, exposes the sinister political economic and social goals which the World Order requires the foundations to achieve through their " bequests ".

Not only is this tax fraud, because the foundations are granted tax exemption solely to do charitable work, but it is criminal syndicalism, conspiracy to commit offenses against the United States of America, Constitutional Law 213, Corpus Juris Secundum 16. For the first time, the close interlocking of the foundation "syndicate" has been revealed by the names of its principle incorporators---

Daniel Coit Gilman, who incorporated the Peabody Fund and the John Slater Fund, and became an incorporator of the General Education Board (now the Rockefeller Foundation); Gilman, who also incorporated the Russell Trust in 1856, later became an incorporator of the Carnegie Institution with Andrew ****son White (Russell Trust) and Frederic A. Delano. Delano also was an original incorporator of the Brookings Institution and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

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Happy charitable giving....

I have troubles getting 7.62x39 too. I need steel case, standard mil issue. Last time I have counted, I have about 1.5K left. In Kali, for some reason, 45acp and 9mm eagle is hard to find too.

The only good thing is that all the communist laws in Kalifornia make HP and Steel Core less and less expensive, since you can only use FMJ at the range. Me thinks this is good, as I will sure have way more use for HP and Steel Core if SHTF.

I feel your pain, man.

and even if the gov can be blamed, who does the govt answer to, if it is demanded

who did not out the govt at election time

yes it is a we the people issue

gov failure to perform, is from, failure to perform, by the people

7.6% is the amount collecting benefits what about those that have had their benefits expire (not in those numbers)

THIS is what I am saying also..

The FIGURES lie,,by NOT showing these people who's benefits have ran OUT!

THIS is not a one person or office blame, as to WHY this or US our here.

But if are regulatory offices that over-see our imports and exports?
Then we would have NEVER been in this UN-EVEN situation to what WE PRODUCE HERE.

As for life and us all..If the feds extend everyone's benefits WE SHALL have MORE time to come-up with a plan of defense to hungry millions who also have no place to dwell..

If THEY DON'T SEE this coming,,,their NOT LOOKING at the REAL NUMBERS?

I run in about 16 states and ALL OF THEM,,share Indiana's unemployment problems and our food banks are feeling stressed right now...IF they run out of donations,,MANY will be in THIS situation I speak of,,and MANY will turn to WHATEVER to feed them selves and their babies..and before WE KNOW IT,,MANY will be taking their own lives as a result of not being able to provide for their families.

We are already w/o the ability of the ones left still working to help ALL the ones who NEED HELP..
And MORE each day are loosing their jobs?
And MORE each day are getting help from family and friends...

I hope and PRAY for all of them and for all of us to stay alert, but ALSO very much to help the ones we can...

I've been hearing a lot about ammo shortages on Steve Quayles radio show. You guys ever hear of him? Record gun sales before and after the election - yes, people are getting ready.

I'm a little behind. Don't even have a gun yet. Thinking of getting a high-powered air rifle since there are no laws regulating them. Won't have to worry about confiscation if it comes to that. Could probably hunt small game.

Anyone catch Glenn Beck Friday? Even he is talking about breakdown in society. Our cities becoming like Mexico City and Calcuta, gangs everywhere, gated communities, kidnapping if they think you have money. Time to join a militia? Very American history.

I liked in "Bowling for Columbine" when Michael Moore tried to make the militia guys look like nuts and totally failed. They were perfectly normal intelligent guys.

norslyman,

You're a risky type, if you still don't have a gun. Would you mind an advice?

I am not sure about high powered air rifle, if SHTF you'd need to out gun your opponent. You can still get say a Glock in either 45 or 9mm, and may-be even a rifle. A good copy of 1911, like custom Springfield or Kimber, if you have the bucks. Kimber 1911 in 45acp is so smooth, it almost doesn't have a kick, I always place my shots in the bullseye with Kimber. This is the one if you find yourself in the situation where you'd need to free a hostage by taking out the bad guy holding him/her, let's pray you won't.
In rifle department,I'd say you need something accurate, like Remington 700pss, and something that is powerful and quickly reload-able, like M-16 (AR-15) or AK.

Even if it is regulated, you can probably get something that is legal in your state. In Kali, we can no longer buy AKs, but we can still build cali-legal AR-15. If SHTF, it is convertible to detachable magazine weapon in 15 minutes.

One word on how funny these discussions are. Most people who lived only in US, don't realize how quickly a locality can go from civil to completely lawless. Act now, don't wait.

one of the things that you guys don't understand is that bush signed executive orders saying that no one can have over around 2 or 3 weeks worth of food and no one will be aloud to have a gun. in fact the military that was patroling during katrina in louisiana had to sign a statement saying that they would actually shoot an american citizen for not handing over their weapons that were being stored in their homes. as far as the farmers go, when they enact martial law, the farms will be seized by the military. this is in the executive orders that bush signed. i bet obama doesn't change these orders at all. be prepared to fire on your own american military and police force if you decide to harbor a weapon.

I am interested, which order numbers where these?

The following are a few examples of some EOs and their purposes that relate to a State of national emergency. [1]

* 10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the United States;
* 10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private;
* 10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment;
* 10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways;
* 11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires;
* 11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private;
* 11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register all men, women and children in the United States of America;
* 11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft;
* 11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish Forced Relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for the populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds;
* 11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private;
* 11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control in case of "National Emergency").

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise an assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen-year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.