kinda been my point all along

And personally I can feel how I want, the question is, just because I pay taxes do I get to govern how others live? If so I have some complaints about the religious folks and the racist folks to address...

receiving death threats.

Want to see where the conservative mindset takes you, this is it. They cannot control her and they are so mad about it they are threatening to kill her.

I personally cannot believe she would do this with her circumstances, what I know of them, mind you. But what it really comes down to is we cannot control others.

The conservatives are pissed because they cannot stop her from receiving help. They want her and the kids to suffer for her "as they see it bad choices".

Just because someone else does not live how you feel they should does not make them unworthy, worthless, unhuman, etc... When we help people we have to accept that they are not us, and they will choose differently than we will.

Real charity is not conditional, it is given from the heart with no strings attached.

true, but I should have a say in wiether or not my taxes should go to someone who is trying to milk the system for all she can. Adopt the kids out, they'll still likely (not sure of CA's laws) get their disability check...the woman needs her tubes tied...and I wish the kids the best of luck in the rest of their lives. Aside from this, Dragoness...I'll toss the truce flag. I'll agree to disagree on a few things with ya, and agree on others

The big difference that makes my mind up about this woman and her children is she manipulated the system and her entire purpose was so contrived. I'm all for being charitable for those who are VICTIMS of circumstance, not those who insist and thrust their immoral needs on the public and expect acceptance and assistance. This was planned as expertly as an assassination. Scr*w her. But, the children, indeed, need to be taken care of. THE CHILDREN are the victims in her ploy.

I will also steer clear of the religious and stereotyping

But as things stand now we do not and cannot govern how others live. Should this also mean that because she 'wants to feel loved' and felt the 'need' to have children, that it be up to the rest of us who have kids or don't by choice or circumstance, to foot the bill?

It means that when people live, which covers a whole slew of circumstances of all kinds, we allow them to live. If we can stop one woman from having kids, where will it stop, you, me? I am fixed so no kids here but if I wanted to have my tubes untied and have children and my income was low which it usually is and others felt I should not do it because I may need help doing it, I would not stand for others telling me what to do with my body. And in America noone should be able to tell me that for example, I need to be married to have this kid, that I need to be employed to have this kid, that I need to raise this kid at their standard of living, etc...

What if I need to have a kid because my endometriosis is acting up and a pregnancy will stop the contant pain I am in?

I do not pretend to even know slightly what this woman is thinking. I personally think it is CRAZY but that does not make me judge and jury to her life.

Because I pay taxes, does not by any means make me able to tell others how to live. It is that simple, someone said simple earlier, that is the simplest it can get. I cannot govern other lives simply because I pay taxes and that is why this woman is getting death threats because the conservatives in the country are mad as hell about this fact. But it is right, I pay taxes and I let the government govern, I do not.

I said simple earlier I see things rather simply and not judging rather voicing my opinion.

Agree no one should receive death threats, regardless of the reasoning behind it, be it they agree, disagree, or just don't really care one way or another. That is wrong, in my opinion. But as her story changes as often as it does, maybe her Public Relations Firm had a hand in the threats?

I don't know Dragoness, as much as I would like to agree with you, on this one I am having a very hard time. What the Doctor did was a 'judgment' call, what she did was also a 'judgment' call. My 'judgment' of her is harsh maybe but I can't help but think she is completely irresponsible and is taking advantage of good people that could better help people that don't scam the system.

How does one bring up 14 children with out help and and by expecting our help she disrespected the tax payer that would have to foot the bill, and put all those kids at a disadvantage.

To me there should be a consequence for this for both the doctor and the woman, I just can't think what that would be that would not harm the children. Though personally I think they would be better off with a different family.

I guess the "consequence" of death would be appropriate?

Allowing freedom in a country based on this premise is not always the easiest thing to do. Human freedoms in this country include having as many children as you want to have. Or on the flip side not having any children ie abortion. Accepting each person has the right to live how they want is not always easy either. We want to impose our personal judgements on their lives but we cannot impose our judgements and allow them freedom now can we?

As for the financial part of it. I pay taxes too and granted I have my favorite things for my taxes to go to and my least but if I started imposing my personal preferences on the tax dollars, there would be some pretty pissed people in this country. We have to accept that our tax dollars go to a human element which includes things each of us may not see as appropriate or worthy but it does not make it so.

In order to accept myself and love myself I have to give to others the respects and freedoms I enjoy. I enjoy the freedom of my reproduction so I have to give the same respect.

Do you see my point here?

Ack I didn't mean death, just some sort of something that prevents women and doctors from NOT THINKING? I don't know, but yes I do see your point, absolutely. I have seen people that really needed and deserved the help they got, so I have never had a problem with where my taxes go, but this is a difficult one for me. .

Ya know there is a finite amount of money we can spend on welfare, as the stimulus bill being voted on now. If this do's not work we are in a heap of trouble. No work no taxs to pay welfare. This lady will use huge $$$ that could help many more. Well we can raise more? As more and more head for the trough, there is less and less to go around. This just sick and for one I'm tired of paying for those that consider welfare a way of life.

I wonder, how many of you posters are pro-choice?

Welfare as a way of life is no more, don't buy into the old racists propaganda that is still going around. 5 years life time limit, Clinton put it in when he was in office.

As for the recession yes we are going to get hit at the level of social programs, it cannot be helped. Foodstamps are already feeling the pinch.

This woman is the exception, not the rule.

But does she deserve or any person who is poor deserve to die because of their circumstances?

I worked in the human services field and there are alot of reasons for a poor person to be poor. 99% have nothing to do with people trying to milk the system. I can list the many many reasons but just understand there is more to the human element than just right and wrong, black and white, cut and dried.