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| Topic: Believe in God or don't..Whats to lose | |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Wed 02/11/09 08:57 AM
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That’s exactly how religions come to be in existence. Christianity is NO different. Someone gets an idea in their head and they tell a few people and they tell a few people and if it is a belief system that fills a certain void in that precise place and time, then Walla!
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This thread is based on the belief from an argument from Pascal's Wager who mentioned what do you have to lose if you believe in God to opposed to not believing. http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/pascals-wager.htm I believe if one has to believe in a God/Goddess/Force/Enlightenment or what have you, then why not one that is peaceful with everything that exists. There are over 2000 religions and who knows how many thousands of spiritual belief systems existing in this world alone. I mean you can even invent your own belief system if you like. If you are creative enough give it a shot. Be your own spiritual teacher to find inner peace within yourself and to others. What is important is you can wake up in the morning enjoying your day without having a guilty conscience in the process. To be able to practice your individual faith system (if you want to call it this) without harming others in the process. It seems for many it is a big challenge to do this, but don't give up, you can attain great wealth of wisdom of how to coexist in peace if you truly seek a way to do so. Truly. If you're going to place your faith in a religion why not believe in one that places all of nature as being divine rather than one that claims that God is out to send people to hell? or one could take a little knowledge of every faith system if you like. I mean everyone has a different taste on what to believe or what works best for them. Let us take me for an example: I like the wisdom Deepak Chopra and Eckart Tolle shares with us, as of Buddha and the Dalai Lama then I enjoy Miccosukee Native American Spiritual Wisdom then I enjoy philosophical idealogies that can interelate with other spiritual belief systems. In the end I guess I would be a Wizard(Deepak Chopra) Sage (Eckart Tolle) Monk (Buddha and Dalai Lama) Earth and Spirit worshipper in a light sense( Native American Elders) and philosophical common sense believer. Maybe I should just shorten this somehow  and who knows I may find some other kind of treasure that will allow me to broaden my knowledge as we speak. Life is beautiful if you try to live in peace with one another regardless of religious or spiritual preference. and those who don't know how to do this then it is our responsiblity to show that it can be possible to live amongst each other in peace for we are primarily the same. We all need basic neccesseties and seek happiness and joy in our life. It can be done if one truly tries to do it. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Wed 02/11/09 09:07 AM
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Abracadabra said:
Truly. If you're going to place your faith in a religion why not believe in one that places all of nature as being divine rather than one that claims that God is out to send people to hell? Good advice in light of the modern day ecological crisis. Although from what I have heard on these forums in the Political section, many of you refuse to even accept the notion that humans are steadily working on destroying the entire natural balance and Eco system of this planet. You don’t give a rat's ass because god gave you the right to destroy the earth. Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So what have you done? God gave humans dominion over every other living thing on earth. This couldn't be true, of course, since millions of other species existed for millions of years before humans existed. But this verse is used by fundamentalist Christians to justify their mistreatment of other species and disregard for the environment. After all, they believe that God created the other species just for them, so they can do whatever they please with them. |
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Yes I shed a tear now for it is saddening that humans believe they have the ultimate say on who or what should live or not.
I don't believe this is to be true. All existence big or small have just as much right to live on this planet as we do. When I worked for GreenPeace, I almost lost my life trying to save a whale. Unfortunately, I couldn't save the whale as I had to be dragged out of the freezing water after being hosed down. Whales are the most peaceful mammals one could ever encounter. The time to eliminate ego is dire in the survival for all that lives on this planet and since we are able to have greater thought processes then all animals we have a bigger responsiblity in trying to ensure that every species can live with us peacefully. It can be done if one truly seeks it. I praise those who work day by day trying to save extinct animals around the world. |
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You think people get defensive when you talk about Jesus?? Try talking about being a Pagan. Or a Wiccan. Remember, we got hung for such things. At least people don't look at you like you're evil or you need "help" because there must be something wrong with you. Makes me wonder what would happen if we all of a sudden just dropped all faiths tomorrow, no reason for arguing over who's more righteous, arguing over land etc etc etc. Maybe for once we would give each other more credit for who we are as individuals instead of who's group is better to rule the world. I don't choose my friends by what their faith is, I choose them by how they treat me as a human being. I could care less what they believe in for themselves. |
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Edited by
smiless
on
Wed 02/11/09 09:17 AM
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You think people get defensive when you talk about Jesus?? Try talking about being a Pagan. Or a Wiccan. Remember, we got hung for such things. At least people don't look at you like you're evil or you need "help" because there must be something wrong with you. Makes me wonder what would happen if we all of a sudden just dropped all faiths tomorrow, no reason for arguing over who's more righteous, arguing over land etc etc etc. Maybe for once we would give each other more credit for who we are as individuals instead of who's group is better to rule the world. I don't choose my friends by what their faith is, I choose them by how they treat me as a human being. I could care less what they believe in for themselves. other animals do it all the time and it looks like they are doing great the only thing is I wouldn't want to be that gnu who gets suddenly attacked by a crocodile when drinking that water 
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Wed 02/11/09 09:24 AM
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Deklineofman,
There should also be a forum that shows up for you called "Christian Singles." This is a forum devoted strictly to Christians and their viewpoints with no argument or debate. I’m assuming no one will question your beliefs at all in that forum. This is an available option and another reason why this "playing the victim" in the General Religion forum (which is intended for ALL beliefs or lack there of,) goes over like a lead zeppelin. |
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It seems that most people here believe in a g-d/dess or else they would be on the General Atheist Chat thread. Belief in a high power is one, conforming to sometimes bizarre religious doctrine is another thing all together now. (<- Beatles reference to K's Yardbirds reference or was it someone else who suggested the name?)
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What's funny is there are a lot of people believe in the Yes/ Yes.No / No.Yes / No ... theory for global warming. BUT they won't follow the same for God. They say, "Well if global warming is a myth then why not just do something about it anyway. That way if it IS true then we still have a chance." Well guess what... WHY not do that for a God also? It shows how closed minded they are. I think you maybe a bit close minded yourself. Global warming if true affects me here and now, not in some place after death. If it turns out not to be true we have at least cleaned up the mess we 'have' made. I can still live my life as a good person with out need for a God I can not see or feel. Science can't answer the after death question nor can your beliefs answer it definitively either. I choose to simply live in the here and now and deal with things I can affect. I don't choose to waste my time on things that can't be proved. That's my way of dealing with life and if you find that close minded, that's just your opinion. It irks me to no end that folks like you assume anything that is not of your god is evil, that's as close minded as one can get.... What I say to you is this. Don't worry about those that do not believe in God. We that DO believe in God have more pleasure and peace of mind as long as we keep true to the word. We understand that when we pass from this life that our energy shall be under the care of God. Everyone has a different point to their life. Even Judas who betrayed Jesus had a point to his life. We are here to do what Jesus said AND did. Love, and to be good to those around us. Again you assume that those the believe in god have more pleasure, and peach of mind, that is so not true, but then if you believe that then it IS true for you, and not to believe it would make you dissatisfied, not me. So please speak for yourself, thank you. This is the very reason that Christians get a bad rap, always assuming what others that do not believe feel or experience. And thank you but I can love and be good to those around me with out the help of something I have never seen or experienced.... |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Wed 02/11/09 09:58 AM
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What's funny is there are a lot of people believe in the Yes/ Yes.No / No.Yes / No ... theory for global warming. BUT they won't follow the same for God. What’s funny is this statement. There is DOCUMENTED scientific proof that global warming is taking place. There is nothing of a sort for your Christian godhead or any other faith based creator.  
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Makes me wonder what would happen if we all of a sudden just dropped all faiths tomorrow, no reason for arguing over who's more righteous, arguing over land etc etc etc. Maybe for once we would give each other more credit for who we are as individuals instead of who's group is better to rule the world. I don't choose my friends by what their faith is, I choose them by how they treat me as a human being. I could care less what they believe in for themselves. And I quote: Imagine there is no Heaven, its easy if you try No H-ll below us, above us only sky Imagine all the people living for today You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one I hope someday that you'll join us and the world will live as one. |
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Edited by
smiless
on
Wed 02/11/09 10:05 AM
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Concerning the pictures Krimsa posted.
 so so sad now when I see this. Some good news though. In Berlin a polar bear had a baby. I think it was the first time this happened in a zoo for polar bears. Not sure, but saw it on my satellite dish watching German television. I hope more countries will try hard to save the polar bear. |
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And I quote: Imagine there is no Heaven, its easy if you try No H-ll below us, above us only sky Imagine all the people living for today You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one I hope someday that you'll join us and the world will live as one. Ah yes I remember that song all too well, if only!!! They were definitely the only one. We do spend more time arguing the existence of god and the afterlife and ignore the beauty that is here and now. |
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Concerning the pictures Krimsa posted. so so sad now when I see this. Some good news though. In Berlin a polar bear had a baby. I think it was the first time this happened in a zoo for polar bears. Not sure, but saw it on my satellite dish watching German television. I hope more countries will try hard to save the polar bear. Now if those were babies out on the ice we would on it like crazy. Unless they are illegal babies... Wonder if there is such a thing as an illegal polar bear....  Ok sick humor...
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Concerning the pictures Krimsa posted. so so sad now when I see this. Some good news though. In Berlin a polar bear had a baby. I think it was the first time this happened in a zoo for polar bears. Not sure, but saw it on my satellite dish watching German television. I hope more countries will try hard to save the polar bear. Thats good. Im not a big fan of zoos or captive breeding programs but with animals such as this and chimps and gorillas and tigers, they are basically losing the ability to reproduce on their own in the wild due to destruction of their native lands. Its becoming an either/or situation. |
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We all seem to go from one extreme to the other.
I see the other happening now. I try to understand why and i believe I do on most. But that is my opinion and just that. The scriptures in the beginning speaks of the Nepha or breath/spirit of Yahweh being breathed into man. This is totally different than man before this time. He made advances but did not have the knowlege from the Spirit of Yahweh to be over the Animals and thus was hunted by them. Noah's account shows the Animals were not afraid of Humans. Gens accout does not speak of eating animals but grains and herbs of the field. If animals not all but many will become gentle if not hunted by humans. Case in point Deer. I have seen and been to Deer farms where they are gentle and act as a pet. See what happens during Deer season today. They are scared to death and who wouldn't be and then we try to figure out how to protect our precious cars from being run into by a Deer that is running for thier life. Humanity as a whole is still learning but we know that we always will be. Whatever belief you have is ever learning and trying to understand. Why. Always the big question is Why. Starts as a young child . Why why why. But they are learning. Why you are not allowed to run into the street. Why you stay away from the stove when Mom is cooking. We are all children and curiosity is one of the greatests traits of the Human race. But somethings untill a better understanding happens will remain the same. It is just life. Thier is a good question I would pose to the unbeliever. Here is an example. Now I do not agree with hunting wolves from aircraft but I do not believe in Abortion either. Now I very well may be wrong in these boards about my belief that the most part of people who deny the Bible believe that a fetus is a womans right to choose whether it is terminated or not. Why is that? Why do so many say in the same breathe that partial birth abortion or late stage abortion is a womans right to get rid of a livin g thing? Thats what it has become. A thing birth control if a woman decides this. WhY? Why do we speak and spend so much time worried about animals and at the same time can choose to kill a baby who at the time of it's death could very likely live to be a 100 if it was just taken alive by Drs.? Why? Why do we cry that a wolf in Alaska is being tortured and not recongonise a cat scan of a infant when aborted is going through pain? We seem in this area of the unbelief in the Bible mostly used in this Country we can not understand why anyone would object to this procedure. Why? Were you not a fetus or late stage baby at one time? Were not your children? what gives the unbeliever the right to choose in such fashion? The cry about animal cruelty. Is this not a Oxymoron and a slap in the face to our own species intelligence? So Why? What gives you the right to slam a womans right to choose down the Believers throat? You can not say you don't because you do all the time. Read this thread closely. Look at what you are worried about? Look at the Laws the Unbeliever has been able to get passed? A drunk and I do not condone it at all but for example purposes only. A drunk hits a car with a pregnant woman inside and she loses this fetus at any stage. The procecuter will go after at least mansluaghter charges for the unborn child. Notice then it is a child. The same woman can go get rid of this now so called fetus and it is her right. Is not the same thing happening? Is not death not happening in both cases? Please prove this stance the unbeliever has? Then tell me why you worry about animal cruelty and blame believers? Which is more precious? I would like to know why this type of thought process is reasonable? Thanks.. Blessings...Miles |
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Yes I shed a tear now for it is saddening that humans believe they have the ultimate say on who or what should live or not. I don't believe this is to be true. All existence big or small have just as much right to live on this planet as we do. When I worked for GreenPeace, I almost lost my life trying to save a whale. Unfortunately, I couldn't save the whale as I had to be dragged out of the freezing water after being hosed down. Whales are the most peaceful mammals one could ever encounter. The time to eliminate ego is dire in the survival for all that lives on this planet and since we are able to have greater thought processes then all animals we have a bigger responsiblity in trying to ensure that every species can live with us peacefully. It can be done if one truly seeks it. I praise those who work day by day trying to save extinct animals around the world. |
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We all seem to go from one extreme to the other. I see the other happening now. I try to understand why and i believe I do on most. But that is my opinion and just that. The scriptures in the beginning speaks of the Nepha or breath/spirit of Yahweh being breathed into man. This is totally different than man before this time. He made advances but did not have the knowlege from the Spirit of Yahweh to be over the Animals and thus was hunted by them. Noah's account shows the Animals were not afraid of Humans. Gens accout does not speak of eating animals but grains and herbs of the field. If animals not all but many will become gentle if not hunted by humans. Case in point Deer. I have seen and been to Deer farms where they are gentle and act as a pet. See what happens during Deer season today. They are scared to death and who wouldn't be and then we try to figure out how to protect our precious cars from being run into by a Deer that is running for thier life. Humanity as a whole is still learning but we know that we always will be. Whatever belief you have is ever learning and trying to understand. Why. Always the big question is Why. Starts as a young child . Why why why. But they are learning. Why you are not allowed to run into the street. Why you stay away from the stove when Mom is cooking. We are all children and curiosity is one of the greatests traits of the Human race. But somethings untill a better understanding happens will remain the same. It is just life. Thier is a good question I would pose to the unbeliever. Here is an example. Now I do not agree with hunting wolves from aircraft but I do not believe in Abortion either. Now I very well may be wrong in these boards about my belief that the most part of people who deny the Bible believe that a fetus is a womans right to choose whether it is terminated or not. Why is that? Why do so many say in the same breathe that partial birth abortion or late stage abortion is a womans right to get rid of a livin g thing? Thats what it has become. A thing birth control if a woman decides this. WhY? Why do we speak and spend so much time worried about animals and at the same time can choose to kill a baby who at the time of it's death could very likely live to be a 100 if it was just taken alive by Drs.? Why? Why do we cry that a wolf in Alaska is being tortured and not recongonise a cat scan of a infant when aborted is going through pain? We seem in this area of the unbelief in the Bible mostly used in this Country we can not understand why anyone would object to this procedure. Why? Were you not a fetus or late stage baby at one time? Were not your children? what gives the unbeliever the right to choose in such fashion? The cry about animal cruelty. Is this not a Oxymoron and a slap in the face to our own species intelligence? So Why? What gives you the right to slam a womans right to choose down the Believers throat? You can not say you don't because you do all the time. Read this thread closely. Look at what you are worried about? Look at the Laws the Unbeliever has been able to get passed? A drunk and I do not condone it at all but for example purposes only. A drunk hits a car with a pregnant woman inside and she loses this fetus at any stage. The procecuter will go after at least mansluaghter charges for the unborn child. Notice then it is a child. The same woman can go get rid of this now so called fetus and it is her right. Is not the same thing happening? Is not death not happening in both cases? Please prove this stance the unbeliever has? Then tell me why you worry about animal cruelty and blame believers? Which is more precious? I would like to know why this type of thought process is reasonable? Thanks.. Blessings...Miles I read your post miles and firsts off your WAY off topic. Second everything you have said is a generalization. You say, "we" and yet make it clear you are not speaking about YOU. You bring up every issue that is important to you as if its believer Vs unbeliever which is silly. Go look up Roe V wade and answer your own questions. The very fact that you try to associate this with a believer vs unbeliever either illustrates your vast ignorance of law, or it illuminates a desire to use this issue as propaganda, to use this issue as a tool in your proselytizing bag of tricks. Sad. |
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Ya i've never been one for telling people they are going to hell if they dont believe. and the term christian has seem to have lost its meaning. I believe in God based on what my belief has manifested in my life as a result of following the teachings. Anyone can misrepresent any religion and personally im not religious. It seems people get defensive automatically when it come to talking about Jesus, and wanna point out all the wrong things "Christians" have done. When i talk about God i tell about the change in my own life as a result. Heck people read dietary books , lose weight and do the same thing. Or any self help book. People can be fanatical about anything, that is why i proceed with caution and discernment when sharing my faith. And it isn't something i just go around yelling on the street corner either, to me it's more personal.  p.s this isn't an attack on non christians. to each their own i was just looking for some input from non believers on what their take on lifes meaning is. If you don't believe in afterlife then what do you hope for in this life? I find your term non-believer quite disturbing. Who qualifies as non-believer? Everyone who doesn't believe as you do? Are you not then a non-believer too because you don't believe what others believe? |
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Ya i've never been one for telling people they are going to hell if they dont believe. and the term christian has seem to have lost its meaning. I believe in God based on what my belief has manifested in my life as a result of following the teachings. Anyone can misrepresent any religion and personally im not religious. It seems people get defensive automatically when it come to talking about Jesus, and wanna point out all the wrong things "Christians" have done. When i talk about God i tell about the change in my own life as a result. Heck people read dietary books , lose weight and do the same thing. Or any self help book. People can be fanatical about anything, that is why i proceed with caution and discernment when sharing my faith. And it isn't something i just go around yelling on the street corner either, to me it's more personal. p.s this isn't an attack on non christians. to each their own i was just looking for some input from non believers on what their take on lifes meaning is. If you don't believe in afterlife then what do you hope for in this life? I find your term non-believer quite disturbing. Who qualifies as non-believer? Everyone who doesn't believe as you do? Are you not then a non-believer too because you don't believe what others believe? What is the standard for belief? Simple answer: there is no standard. So this whole idea of unbelievers Vs believers is just another generalization from a soapbox position. It can never be otherwise. |
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