Dragoness...



I suppose we all probably trust our own judgement too much, some more so than others. Davidben actually made a remarkably accurate point earlier which deals with language and personal meanings...

I would actually like to get back to that soon, but first I would like to be able to peacefully end this adventure in human behaviour.

How are you?

I have seen you post from time to time, sorry I have not acknowledged it as often as usual...

Tunnel vision...

Because you are a person Creative. So I make personal remarks. I speak person to person, feelings and all. I don't simply exchange information. I feel the person behind the words.


***********

BUT...

Back to the freedom of speech subject in the discussion:

***
If you own the newspaper you print what you want and you can refuse to print what you want. You own the power to restrict what is printed.

That is not to be confused with a government who would try to prevent you from printing the truth about something just because they did not like it.

*****

I presented a valid point and you tried to make me look like I was contradicting myself or that I could not "make up my mind."

Why? I am very clear on this point where "freedom of speech" is the issue, and I stand by what I say. I am not confused. I certainly do know what I think.

The owner of the paper or website or club has the right and the power to restrict what is said or printed or published.

Do you not understand the difference between that and the government preventing a private person or news paper from publishing something?

You see, creative, you rub me the wrong way because you don't want to discuss or debate, you just want to cross examine me and make me look wrong or stupid to save face when you are loosing the argument.

Instead of all of that, why don't you actually address the actual argument and the points I make?

Do you agree that the newspaper has the power to reject or accept any news item it wants and it has the power to print what it wants or not? You cannot force a newspaper to print your letter to the editor if they don't want to by using any argument about you having "freedom of speech."

(I honestly do my level best to explain my side of a debate as simply as possible. I try to feel the other person because if I know the person I am talking to, I can feel the communication better.)

Communication is a lot more than words. Feelings are always involved, knowledge base, past experience, etc.

I am good Creative, I don't see you much either. I hope all is well with you too.


As for the freedom of speech issue, as I posted on another post on the same subject matter earlier today , there has never been complete and utter freedom of speech in this country.

There has always been a selective freedom of speech. Porn is restricted or banned in certain areas, books are not sold in certain bookstores, libraries have lists of books they do not put on their shelves, in the bible belt religion is the restrictor to literature and media, etc.... The list goes on and on.

Considering that religion had more of a grasp in this country in days gone by, the freedom of speech at that time was even more restricted.

So again to reiterate, freedom of speech in this country is not completely free.

If the author wants to be separated from his writing, then why write?

An article with no (real live)author that is created mostly by article writing software is what Internet marketers call "spider food" for google-bots, which are programs that look for meaningful content for adsense ads. The article software can fool the google-bots because they are both machines(programs) after all.

But when I read words, stories or articles I look for the person behind the article.

I even wrote an article about it.

http://www.bacaracka.com/realperson.html

I find it quite interesting that the thread began with this idea of what is considered to be offensive.



Evidently one or more people felt offended in this thread.

Should the whole thread then be censored?

Is that truly cause for the removal of the freedom of speech?

Surely we have all had the experience where people have been offended by things that we've said, when no offense was intended.

Should soft-skinned people be the criteria for censorship?

I've been with people who were highly offended by the words of others, while I was not offended in the least.

So where does offense originate? Or can it sometimes be nothing more than an illusion by someone who is overly defensive?

If the key is not to offend, and we are around very sensitive people who are easily offended, then our speech would be limited and we would need to be careful what we say.

All of a sudden the listener (or reader) becomes the criteria for what they percieve to be 'offensive'.

So the listeners or readers would dictate freedom of speech.

But this most certianly is the case in reality.

We would never speak the same way at a PTA meeting as we would when we're hanging out in a bar. There are different social rules of conduct everywhere we go. Unwritten rules, not laws. But clearly if we told grossly dirty jokes at a PTA meeting there would at least some controversy if we weren't ushered out altogether.

So the very concept of freedom of speach is often contextual with respect to the social situation.

Laws can only do so much. And of course, even with laws, someone needs to file charges, there needs to be a hearing, etc. Even in the truest sense of a legal system someone is still going to make a subjective judgment somewhere along the way.

I agree Abra. I speak more gently on these forums than I would in person in a lot of situations on here. I am also respectful of elders in public or at home, watching language and subject matter, this also applies in the presence of children.

Circumstances do dictate behavior which effects speech or verbiage.

Perfect!

Quite funny, that earlier joke James...

The point you just raised is sort of the reason that I began the thread. I had mentioned it earlier as well as Sky. Euphemisms are a sort of restriction in the sense that you are speaking. Although the subject that the label is referring to remains unchanged, the new label adds comfort in some way to the subject being labeled.

Jb...

I understand and agree with what was just written. It was worded well.

My apologies for our misunderstandings and the role that I played.

I commend the feel of what you just wrote, and I must admit that after reading back throught this entire thread it gave me a headache...

I recognized several places where I should have thought more carefully about how to respond. Language is a curious thing in that the terms being used have the possibility of having entirely different meanings. Meanings I mean, on a deeper level than just at face value.

The reason for separating the author from the content is simple... it focuses on the content.

Jeannie...I clicked on the link

http://www.bacaracka.com/realperson.html

and read the article you

wrote.


Jeannie... although you are entitled to your opinion, I personally do not see your opinion as FACT.

In regards to the article you wrote ,

just because all writers do not write with personal feelings involved,

does not make them Pretenders.

I feel your article is another example of making

Presumptions...

yet written to come across sounding as FACT.

................

Although this thread started off being about Offensive

Words, that has not been the ongoing problem in this

thread...as far as I can see here .


Presumptive Words ( words with no FACTS to support the claim).....

has been the problem I see here, not Offensive words.

There is a difference between speaking or writing

Offensive Words....

versus

speaking or writing

PRESUMPTIVE Words.


ps...

I am not at peace about continuing in this thread.....

just wanted to share this last bit, in hopes of helping to clarify

the problem I see here...

that just because all people do not think the same.....

or act the same.....or are the same , means there is a problem

with them..or with their thinking process.

People are different...

and have

different styles of writing, and as was mentioned before ,

also have different styles of thinking.

We have logical thinkers versus feeling thinkers....

neither one is right ...neither one is wrong.....

AND

neither is a PRETENDER for being who God created him/her to be.

It would be a boring world if we all thought or wrote the same.


Peace Be to All Now.

you can't yell fire in a crowded theater...but can you yell theater in a crowded fire? be seeing you

Morningsong,

Thank you for reading my article!

My article is of course intended to be an opinion. Opinions are never to be considered "facts." They are opinions.

I wrote it when I was investigating some software that aids an author in writing about a subject that he knows nothing or very little about.

I mentioned in the article that there is 'nothing really wrong" with doing this.

The author may be considered and expert writer, but if he is writing about flying a jet plane and he has never flown a jet plane or he knows nothing about flying a jet plane then he is NOT and expert pilot. If he implies that he is then that is what I call 'a pretender.' This is not a presumption. The author is an expert writer, or information pusher but he is not an expert pilot.

If he pretends to be an expert pilot and is called "an expert" (by Ezine articles) on the subject, then he is a pretender. He is only an expert in putting together information of being a pilot; he is NOT really a pilot.

So when I read the article and it presumes to imply that the author is an expert pilot then that is a deception. He is simply an expert writer and word pusher.

There are times when information should be impersonal if the purpose is just to convey the information, like an instruction book or manual. The author of such a book should not, however, convey the impression that he is speaking from experience and is an expert on what he writes about.

If I read an article or book about the secrets to playing a good golf game, I expect and desire to be getting the information from someone who actually plays golf but if it is just a manual or instruction book on the basics of playing golf, the author is not important, the information is.

Sometimes all we need is the information, but I prefer books and articles that have a person of experience as the author. People and their experience are the greatest source of real information.

I hope this clears things up a little.

To give you another example, if you wanted to purchase a book on how to make money on the Internet, you would likely want a book that was written by a person who has actually made a lot of money on the Internet.

I have read a lot of books on how to make money on the Internet and I could easily compile a book of my own about the subject, but I have never actually made a lot of money on the Internet so I don't think people would be interested in my book.

On the other hand I could write a book on how to do an oil painting or how to design a simple web page and I would be speaking from my own experience. People would likely have more faith in that book.

Sounds like what religious people do with their religious faiths MorningSong.

That's a very GOOD point Abra.

Thank you so much Creative! I can understand and feel a communication in this post. I really want to discuss topics with you in a person to person manner. I will bare in mind that you are a person with feelings if you do the same.

Strike that-- change to: I will bare in mind that you are a person with feelings even if you don't do the same. (I'm not making a bargain, I'm making a change.)

Peace.

sure you can.

self can do anything it wants.

self will just experience all the mind itself say will or could happen.

just cause and effect, not a "can't"???

there is no "can't" that exist, or this notion believed most, hide the fact self is free, so cause a "prisoner" type persepctive, which create's a notion other's control self, which is only to pit self against self's, imprisoning the mind.

for anything the mind say "i can't", the heart must add to it, and say "i can", but i don't want to, because this would happen, and i don't "want" that???

this brings the knowing of self power back to self, and give freedom of heart.

peace prisoner be seein ya...

snuffles and snorts everywhere ... kinda changes the dynamic

I would like to know who put those there. I did not do it. Someone is hijacking my account. I has to be a moderator. I don't appreciate it at all.

I am reporting this to the mods. There is apparently a virus in this place.

Then I am going to leave this club.

The snorts are suddenly gone. That's totally weird. There still some kind of virus going on probably.