Why are people so desperate to support a picture of an angry jealous male chauvinistic God when there is absolutely no evidence that the picture is true, and there is overwhelming evidence that it's false?

This picture claims that every one of us has rejected God and has done horrible things to make God angry with us. The things that we have done are supposedly so bad that this God had to have his son nailed to a pole to pay for our wretched and purposeful rebellion against him.

To make matters worse. Let's suppose that you're a kind loving person who never did a mean thing in your life, or ever intentionally hurt another person. You hear about this story and you simply don't believe it. To you it just appears as just another ancient mythology that is clearly of ungodly origin. Yet this story claims that you will be sent to eternal damnation just for rejecting the mythology.

Would any genuinely righteous creator be angry with you for not believing that some arbitrary mythology was his word? There are a lot of mythologies around. How could you know which one might be true?

By human standards any such God would clearly be unreasonable and totally unjust.

Yet many people would rather believe that God is unreasonable and unjust than to confess that the story is a myth.

They reject the scientific observation that we have evolved from lesser animals in order to embrace this horror story. They would rather believe that God is totally unreasonable and unjust than to believe that they might have evolved from lesser primates.

They reject reason itself to believe totally unreasonable stories in the Bible.

Now some people will say that their desperation stems from being unable to accept atheism.

Fine.

But there are many other pictures of God around to choose from. It truly doesn't come down to either the biblical God or no God at all. That's a huge falsehood that is often perpetuated by the people who are obsessed with the biblical picture.

The Bible confirms that its God is a loser God. The Biblical God loses the vast majority of souls that it creates to some Fallen Angle who has become a God in his own right. During the Great Flood the biblical God had to flush almost all of humanity over to the Fallen Angel who is clearly the big winner in the Bible.

Even in the NT Jesus proclaims that the path is straight and the gate is narrow that leads to the kingdom of God and few will make it. So Jesus confirms once again that the vast majority of souls do not make it to the kingdom of God, therefore they must be going to the kingdom of the Fallen Angel.

The biblical God is at war with this Fallen Angel and his desperate act of sacrificing his own son in this war only demonstrates a desperate God who is clearly losing a war with this Fallen Angel.

This whole mythology reeks of Greek Mythologies from the God's lust for blood sacrifices to the very fact that angels and demons are at war with the Gods.

In all honesty, if I had to choose between this picture and atheism, I would rather atheism were true, because this is a picture of a very inept loser God. We'd be better of without a creator than to have such an inept creator.

Fortunately it doesn't come down to either the biblical myth or atheism. There are far better pictures of God to be had.

Pantheism offers a picture of God where there are no losers. Every soul that is ever created returns precisely back to God from whence it arose. All souls return to God, not only a select few.

It a picture of a God who truly has unconditional love, and unconditional wisdom and benevolence.

Moreover, pantheism is in prefect harmony with science. There is nothing in science that disagrees with pantheism. Pantheism is in perfect harmony with an all-wise God. There is nothing in pantheism that is unwise. Pantheism is in perfect harmony with an all-righteous God. There is nothing in pantheism that is unfair. Pantheism is in perfect harmony with an all-powerful God. There is nothing in pantheism to suggest that God is at odds with anyone, angel or human.

So it truly doesn't come down to the biblical God versus Atheism as we often see played out on these forums.

There are better pictures of spirituality to be had.

Pantheism is a picture of God where no one loses, not even God.

So why are people so desperate to support the biblical picture of a clearly unjust, unwise, loser God. This is what the Bible demands that God must be. Unjust in that he send good people to hell just because they don't believe he's mean. Unwise, because solves all his problem using violence. And clearly he's a loser God since he loses the vast majority of souls that he creates to a Fallen Angel that he can't control.

Why would anyone want that picture of God to be true?

Especially on pure faith.

And in light of the fact that it rejects what we actually see in the real world. This religion is at odds with science (and has been at odds with every major scientific discovery including a sun-centered solar system). Yet people keep supporting this unreasonable picture of a loser God.

Why?

Who would even want it to be true?

We can all rejoice in the fact that it's nothing more than an ancient myth and that if there is a God the pantheistic view is the most likely candidate to be the correct picture of spirit.

I truly believe and I am not desperate..but you may be I for one know there is a God...I am sorry you feel different but that is your right He has given us free will...

You cannot know there is a god. You can have faith there is, you can believe there is, but you cannot know, because to know requires proof, there is no proof of the existence of a god.

I believe in spirit too honey.

That has nothing to do with the Bible.

This is precisely what I was trying to get at in the OP.

A belief in God does not require a belief in the Bible.

On the contrary the biblical picture of God is actually an ungodly picture.

That was my whole point.

I know...and I know deep in my heart...that is all the proof I need...maybe some na sayers need more but I for one do not...

Well, not only that, but any intuitive feelings of spirit do not point to the Bible. Unless of course, the person who is having those feelings has already choosen that picture of God. Then, of course, they are going to associate any spiritual experiences with the mythology that they have already choosen to believe in.

That's why men created pantheons in the first place. So they could have some way of visualizing their spiritual intuitions.

He has healed my child on more than one occasion right before my eyes...even the doctor was baffled...

Well, again. This doesn't support the Biblical picture of God.

You simply associate your spiritual intuition with a pantheon (the Bible) that you have choosen to associate it with.

But had you chosen some other pantheon you're spiritual feelings would be just as connected to that pantheon.

I know from personal experience that it is perfectly possible to change pantheons and retain the very same spiritual experience.

I can worship Jesus or the Moon Goddess with precisely the same spiritual connection in either case.

So clearly the pantheon is not the God.

The pantheon is merely are way of visualizing our spiritual experiences.

Therefore, when you say that you intuitively or innately know there is a spirit, that doesn't support any particular mythology or pantheon.

Could it all not just boil down to man created god in His image?

I think it takes a serious leap of faith unto itself to think that yes there is a god but I cannot describe who or what god is. God just is.

Now if god were a Christian God we would all be screwed but it would basically be the same thing if HP Lovecraft's Elder Gods existed too and those were just a story.

Most people just need some kind of Moral Security blanket. they need a God of some kind to give their life guidance when the point of free will is to choose your own way but again people need safe secure ground both literally and figuratively.

Look at the Aztecs and Mayan's. Their religious rites were a little on the... well to say the least their ideas of sacrifice were over the top. The people of that time believed that blood sanctified the Gods and brought rain. We are talking of cultures that reached millions strong in their height.

Even in India Kali is a destroyer and not portrayed in a flattering light. Why is the destroyer a woman in their pantheon and why would they see a need to personify destruction along with other aspects of their lives?


Once upon a time there was no man and the universe knew peace but the universe got board. To liven things up the universe made man. Suddenly things got interesting. Unfortunately man eventually got board. Man made the wheel, man learned to make fire but that was not enough...

Man made god and things really got interesting...

A lot of people feel that they need structure and discipline in their lives. Many people turn to God and the bible. It happens all the time to prison inmates.

I think it's a crock of bs personally, but it's free will. If they want to believe that's up to them.

Yes, I too belive that we can indeed be healed spiritually. I'm personally experiencing spirital healing myself.

Spiritual healing works in all cutlures, and pantheons, because SPIRIT is real!

Not because the pantheon is real.

The pantheon is nothing more than man's way of picturing spirit.

Well, that's not surprising.

You have a religion that promises FORGIVENESS and you proselytize it to criminals?

Yep. Owl bet that's a great place to sell Bibles.

In fact, that just drives home my point that it's based on desperation.

Proselytize to those who are in desperate situations!

And that's precisely what evangelists to do.

Get em while their down!

Salvation and redemption sell...

Think making people feel responsible sells?


Naw, where else can you kill someone and after a few Hail Marys and a well placed financial gift all is forgiven in the eyes of God suddenly.


Karma don't count.

I think you're right.

The biblical picture is acually the cop out. Just accept Jesus as your savior and it's all better now.

No need to take personal reasponsiblity.

who is the picture actually of.. I know it is from edgypt is it Horus that the picture is taken from.. it is an idol

Many people believe that the story of Jesus was a fabrication created at least in-part from previous folklore such as the story of Horus.

It's not all that different from the Greek God of Apollo either.

Apollo was supposedly the buffer between Zeus and man, just like Jesus is the buffer between man and the abrasive God of Abraham.

However, the story of Jesus is meaningless without the story of the God of Abraham. The story of Jesus stands on the shoulders of the God of Abraham.

At least if the idea is that Jesus was the sacrifical lamb of God.

The real irony is that most Christians are completely at odds with the idea of the crucifixion.

In other words, most Christians would reject the sacrifice!

They would do everything in their power to stop the crucifixion if they had been alive in Jesus' day.

But that's the same as rejecting the sacrifice that is supposedly being done on their behave.

Any Christian who would try to prevent or the crucifixion in any way, is rejecting God's WILL.

To accept Jesus as your Savior, you must condone the sacrifice in your name and having been done on your behalf.

You must be willing to pick up the sledge and drive in the nails.

Otherwise you reject it as being an inhumane act!

But that just means that you reject the sacrifice and disagree with God's PLAN and God's WILL.

You can't accept Jesus as a sacrifice to pay for your sins, and simultaneously reject the very notion of the sacarifice.

Yet, Christians do this very thing.

They accept Jesus as their Savior, and reject the idea that they are in any way responsible for the crucifixion!

It's an oxymoronic concept.

Even if I thought the story were true I'd have to reject the offer on principle alone.

I'd have no choice but to go to hell rather than condoning the crucifixion for my sake.

So the religion is worthless to me even if it's true. I'd have no choice but to choose to go to hell for Jesus's sake.

Why are people desperate to follow the Bible?

I think it has something to do with the location one lives in. If you ever went to Indonesia, India, or Asia most people don't practice Christianity.

What I am leading to is that the environment one lives in is what decides what most people will believe in at the end.

For example here in the United States there are many commercials going on for each holiday that the Christian claim to be their inventions. Easter, Christmas being the biggest of them. Then we also can't forget New Years, which is the Gregorian Calender used and many don't realize that we unknowningly celeberate Jesus's birthday 2009 years lately. Christianity makes sure it remains a huge advertising slogan around the world.

Then in every corner you have churches and less temples of Buddhism or Mosques of Muslims or for that matter any other religious constructions.

So as a child who grows up with such parents they will most likely adapt and accept the lessons the bible teaches to the point of believing this is the truth and only path to follow. The commercials, and the constant reminder every day you wake up helps add to the belief system.

Let us not forget the advertisement on television and the constant door knocking for us city folks as they consistently try to influence us to donate and join their foundations.

The religion also teaches from the beginning you are a sinner, and calmly make you feel guilty of all the actions you do throughout your life period. This scare tactic makes the young person believe and try to do the things that the pastor teaches to be acceptable concerning on how the bible teaches.

So I think it is no different then "peer pressure" and that many just adapt to the lifestyle not realizing there is a great many other idealogies one could embrace and enjoy.

I have posted many times Buddhist idealogies and am amazed that many don't understand or care to comment on them. It is most likely that they don't understand its methods or don't have the energy to learn something different. Of course many also don't believe in anything else but the bible and its lessons.

Now this is changing dramatically in Europe. Many of the younger generation are not following Christianity,Catholic, or all these denominations.

In Germany 66% of those at the age of 18 to 27 are Atheists and 14% are agnostic. The rest believe in some kind of god, or deist, or energy. Many of the European countries are following as they realize that religion isn't the solution to many of the problems we face in todays world.

Christianity is a dying mythology. It just doesn't look like it from the Western Hemisphere or in the poorer nations like Africa. I will give it no longer then 50 years when the three major mediterrenean mythologies will not be in the hearts of the people anymore.

Yet I must add that these three mediterrenean mythologies will do whatever it takes to make one believe that this is the only ticket to heaven when one passes away. This includes by influential persuasion to even wage wars to get more followers if have to. It works especially to those who suffer hardship or are not educated in history and the reasons of why such religions originated in the first place.

I understand you. I also kind of agree with you. I also have a rather simplistic answer for you.

People, as evidenced by the millions, dare I say Billions, that give themselves to religion, need something to fill that inner void of uncertainty about life and death. People also need/want a guide, or an assurance, on how to live conduct their daily lives. Religion can certainly provide that as well.
I commend religion and the church for the good they do in society.
On a personal note. I really dont need/want any of it.

Blessed Be.

how do we heal ourselves?

Well, some churches do good things for humanity, others use God as an excuse to condemn intellectual knowledge (i.e. science), and to push their bigoted beliefs onto others (i.e. pushing for laws against same gender love)

Not to mention that they also condemn everyone who isn't a Christian as having 'rejected' God.

But there are good Christians just as there are good Atheists, Pantheists, Wiccans, etc, etc, etc.

What really struck me, specifically last night whilst I was listening to the radio, so many people choose the biblical picture simply because they can't handle the idea of atheism and they don't recognize any other choices.

The man on the radio interview was a famous author (unfortunately I forget his name), anyway he said that he accepted the biblical picture simply because he couldn't handle the 'burdern' and 'emptiness' of the idea that we just die when we die.

That's desperation.

Choosing to believe in a religion simply because a person can't face atheism is truly ridiculous.

Moreover, if that's the motivation then why choose the biblical picture?

That's my real question. Pantheism also offers eternal life, yet it never seems to be in the running between the Bible versus Atheism.

People in the western world just don't consider it to be a viable picture. Yet why not?

It make far more sense than the biblical picture!

I just came from another thread where a Christian is attempting to support the biblical picture by proclaiming that God doesn't think like humans. And thus this is supposed to excuse the FACT that the biblical picture is so absurd and nonsensical.

Even Christians realize that the picture is nonsense!

Yet they continue to defend it even if that defense is to confess that it's nonsensical.

What sense does that make?

We have to believe that God is unreasonable and nonsensical in order to accept the horror story that we are all at odds with our creator on pure faith?

In all honestly, I'd rather believe that we just die when we die than to believe that we are at odds with our creator.

I just wish that more people in the western world who want to believe in an eternal spirit would look into pantheism.

It's just so much more sane.

And it doesn't have people judging each other's lifesyles, and denouncing scientific observations, and accusing people of rejecting God.

In the pantheistic view it doesn't matter what you believe. You can even believe in Christianity as far as God is concerned. It doesn't matter.

The only problem with Christianity is that it instills unnecessary guilt in otherwise innocent people. And historically (as well as currently) it is so easily used to denounce things like science, and other people's lifestyles and faiths.

Christianity (all all the religions based on the Mediterranean picture) are far more interested in condemning people than lifting them up.

There's no way to get to the Christian God through love or good works. The only way to get to the Christian God is to confess that you are unworthy of his love.

How sick is that?