Topic: what is right?
crimsonphoenix's photo
Wed 01/28/09 05:37 AM
bit of long read, i hope you don't mind.

i am currently 21 and most people my age are going through identity crisis. for the most part i know who i am at this point in time. the main crisis(ies) i have is how i can relate to the universe, what are the right paths for me and what is right.

i've been searching for answers for what is right, i look throughout history.

i read about individuals like gandhi, martin Luther king, JFK,, and Robert kenedy. they have made such a positive and massive change in the world.

i read about individuals like Hitler, Stalin, manson, the unibomber etc. i've read and seen the massive negative impact they have had.

invariably i've seen similar things in mass society.

people that didn't fight Hitler, the Rwandan genocide,Romans feeding Christians to lions, churches condemning innocent people ie "Galileo, Joan of arc etc", the crucible, discrimination, greedy corporations etc.

there are other people that give to various charities, people that keep an open mind, non profit organizations, veterans that have sacrificed their lives, people that care and want to make things better etc.

the main difference i can see in terms of good and evil in society and individuals are intentions to help, open mindedness and trying to understand other peoples POV. one constant i have seen is that no system is 100% right or wrong, there are things to learn and avoid everywhere

i often wonder what it would have been like if hitler was open minded and listened to others. if he really cared would world war 2 still have happened? also what if martin Luther king listened to mass society and gave up. would the world be filled with more hate and misunderstanding?

essentially i don't want to be Hitler or make a negative impact but i also have to be me, no matter how weird or different i am. my intentions are rarely to hurt and i want to belong.

are there any suggestions or good advice that you can think of?

thank you for reading and the advice. : )

no photo
Wed 01/28/09 05:51 AM
don't dwell on the 'what ifs'.
your beliefs, no matter how strong or different, are your own. to push them on others or enact them on others is wrong. this, i believe, is where the evil doers did wrong in history.
be true to yourself and don't let anyone put you down for what you strive for or what you believe in.
and by all means....if you feel that you need to act out in aggression causing harm to others.....get some help :wink:

s1owhand's photo
Wed 01/28/09 07:48 AM
the central issue of what is good and what is right has been at the heart of philosphy since its inception.

you should read about different philosophers viewpoints on this and other issues.

i recommend "The Story of Philosophy" by Will Durant
this was my introduction to the subject.

but there are also many resources on the net
there is no single more important question than what is virtue

bigsmile


SkyHook5652's photo
Wed 01/28/09 10:13 AM
Edited by SkyHook5652 on Wed 01/28/09 10:40 AM
I assume you’re meaning “right and wrong” as synonyms for “good and bad”, as opposed to “correct and incorrect”.

The very first thing to understand is that there is no absolute. Period. What is right for you is not always going to be right for someone else, and vice versa.

So the question becomes how do you determine right and wrong for you.

And to do that you have to put it into some context. The exact same action may be right in some contexts and wrong in others.

Now it sounds like you are looking for some sort of rule of thumb that can be applied to any situation, regardless of the context.

If so, then every situation you’re trying to evaluate must have something in common if a single rule is to be applied to all of them.

So what is the common denominator? What is the commonality in context for all situations you would want or need to evaluate?

The only thing that is guaranteed to be common to all cases is you! Your goals. What you want to accomplish. What you are trying to achieve. The way you want things to be.

So in my opinion, they only practical “universal rule” for judging good and bad is relative to your personal goals. That is, “good” is what contributes more than it detracts from the achievement of your goals, and “bad” is what detracts more than it contributes to the achievement of your goals.

This is the origins of the phrase “be true to yourself”.

Now that can be taken to the extremes of “I want what I want and to **** with what anyone else wants. But that’s a very selfish and short-sighted interpretation of the rule.

For example, if you make shoes for a living, you may have several goals relating to that shoemaking business. “Make a profit” is probably going to be one of them. But “happy customers” can also be one of them. Now if you concentrate solely on “making a profit” and ignore “happy customers”, you’re not going to do as well as if you had included “happy customers” as one of your goals.

So there are goals that one has that are not strictly self-serving but which are nevertheless “right” because they contribute more than they detract from the attainment of your goals.

The classic, extreme example is a mother who willingly sacrifices her life for her offspring. On an individual level, this is extremely “wrong”. (Dead is about as wrong as you can get.) But to the mother, the goal of “safe children” is more important than the goal of “safe self”. So for her, the sacrifice of her life is more right than wrong.

This “personal goals” foundation is even applicable to the idea of a “conscience”. If you want to do something and your conscience tells you it is wrong then you have to decide. Is the goal of “doing what your conscience says” a more important goal than “doing what you want”?

So the universal rule for determining right and wrong is pretty simple. It’s the evaluation of one’s goals and their importance relative to each other, combined with the ability to predict the effects of one’s actions upon those goals that is the difficult part.

JMNSHO

:smile:


no photo
Wed 01/28/09 04:39 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Wed 01/28/09 04:39 PM
I think you have pin pointed the most important things.

Keep an open mind (easier said then done)

Listen to, and care about people.

downhomechik's photo
Wed 01/28/09 04:43 PM
Noone truly fits into one category (bad versus good). They tend to teeter back and forth. You can say in the end that someone was evil because what they do that is bad outweighs the good....but there is something bad in everyone and something good in everyone. You cant' make a conscious choice to be on one certain side of a coin because it isn't possible. Be yourself. There is no other choice.


no photo
Wed 01/28/09 04:47 PM
if youknow who you are why are you using House's picture

nogames39's photo
Wed 01/28/09 06:41 PM
Do not worry. I guarantee you, that you will not make any impact whatsoever either way.

creativesoul's photo
Wed 01/28/09 09:19 PM
The Four Agreements

Don Miguel Ruiz


Simple wisdom for all ages. Irreplaceable.

DeKLiNe0fMaN's photo
Mon 02/02/09 11:20 PM

Do not worry. I guarantee you, that you will not make any impact whatsoever either way.

noway That's messed up ! But i have to say darkly humorous.
Right and wrong seems to be a mob mentality perception, I personally think it's wrong to sleep around with no meaning to relationship, but an MTv generation will tell you that's the way of the world. I try to live my life as a Christian man yet i'm still in conflict about abortion (to-witt i'm not totally against it under circumstances) I guess if you think its wrong, you prolly shouldn't do it and the right thing isn't always the best thing. Welcome to this disco called life, these are the things you have to discover as you grow as an individualwinking

no photo
Tue 02/03/09 03:33 PM

Do not worry. I guarantee you, that you will not make any impact whatsoever either way.
Well I can say one thing, if everyone took this advice humanity would be in a sorry way right now compared to where we are.

no photo
Wed 02/04/09 12:50 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 02/04/09 12:52 PM
"are there any suggestions or good advice that you can think of?"

I will consult the cards. bigsmile

---- ----

Eight of Wands, Nine of Wands and Page of pentacles.

You have begun to broaden your horizons and try out new ideas, begin new projects, and conduct your business in a newer and more innovative way.

But there is one last challenge remaining. You feel as if you have come to the end of your resources and fighting powers, but you have the skill and determination in reserve to go the distance. You are actually in a position of strength. Although you will need to draw on all your courage and abilities, you will prevail. Start planning your next course of action. Think before you leap.

The page of Pentacles is the student and the apprentice. This card's advice is to learn all you can. Sometimes it means college. In any case it is learning about how to be successful with the rest of your life. It won't be long before you are teaching others what you have learned.

The advice is: Keep learning. Follow what interests you the most.

no photo
Wed 02/04/09 03:00 PM
I have learned to never say "he/she is wrong or what they are doing is so wrong" what i say instead is 'it is not something i would do because I think it is wrong" like I would never say something taste like sh.t it is just not to my taste or this music suc..s it is just not my kind of music.

That is why they call it our opinion or point of view because it is our own and nobody else, same thing for what is good/bad or right/wrong it is our own judgment that determines how things are so it should only apply to us and nobody else.

deke's photo
Wed 02/04/09 07:53 PM
how you live your life depends on what you beleive.

creationist(GOD created you and your worth something)he has plan for your life.
live with morals and standards


are you a humanist( belief you came from a cosmic burp i.e big bang)in that case your a polluter of the enviroment and are part of the problem,also if it feels go do it fits in this catagory.

common sense goes along way
you'll find who you are as soon as you stop looking for it,look at who are right now.




no photo
Wed 02/04/09 09:16 PM

how you live your life depends on what you beleive.

creationist(GOD created you and your worth something)he has plan for your life.
live with morals and standards


are you a humanist( belief you came from a cosmic burp i.e big bang)in that case your a polluter of the enviroment and are part of the problem,also if it feels go do it fits in this catagory.

common sense goes along way
you'll find who you are as soon as you stop looking for it,look at who are right now.




You have some very strange ideas of what a humanist is. And I think people are free to plan their own lives.


Jess642's photo
Fri 02/06/09 01:10 PM
Do what is intrinsically, and instinctually a 'yes' for you.

As to 'belonging'.... to what do you wish to belong to?

The human race? Already doing it.

Society? Which one... a flawed and greed/scarcity based one.... or a more altruistic, open compassionate one?


I do wonder what you mean by 'belonging'...

Amoscarine's photo
Thu 10/31/13 05:25 AM
I think that there is a right way to do things in the world. Perhaps it's tough to see. But there are many wrong ways to do things, like have a kid. Have you ever seen pictures of birth defects from drug use in pregnacy? It is evident that the human body is made to be in a certain environment, to have such a function. There is a wrong way to have a kid and nuture. In much the same way, the world works a certain way, the planents orbit as they do, the sun shines it's fusion excesses and all else is maintained as it is needed for the Earth to work. As far as one cannot be isolated from the entirety of the universe, as there is known one, all seems to be in check in that regard. So any action that aligns with what works is right, in my opinion.

I wouldn't take anybody's advice, but if it is given, adapt it to your needs, or disregard it.

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 10/31/13 05:51 AM
Edited by Conrad_73 on Thu 10/31/13 05:57 AM

how you live your life depends on what you beleive.

creationist(GOD created you and your worth something)he has plan for your life.
live with morals and standards


are you a humanist( belief you came from a cosmic burp i.e big bang)in that case your a polluter of the enviroment and are part of the problem,also if it feels go do it fits in this catagory.

common sense goes along way
you'll find who you are as soon as you stop looking for it,look at who are right now.




so,you tell me that one has to believe in God to be "Moral"?
That Morality is impossible unless you have some Invisible Friend?laugh

Mankind discovered that Morality is paramount for living,long before they invented some Deity!


The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live.
John Galt