100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: Why do humans feel they have to be governed? | |
|---|---|
|
|
|
"Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not."-RFK Has the idea of an absoultly free nation ever been tried? Absoultly not! Do you really think evil can sustain itself forever if it has no host to feed itself? I dont think so because unlike goodness, it has to feed on anothers soul, and if mankind learned that harm has no place on this earth, Not anything that u speak of could ever survive An absolutely free nation would be truely awsome... Unfortunately such a nation MAY fall victim to disorganization. This leaves it vulnerable to the corrupt, organized powers. On a side note, i have an interesting question for you to ponder.... How can people remain free? If a free mass of people were influenced a media would that not be some form of control? If that control were surpressed would that not be an infringement of freedom? Kinda gives me a headache to think about.... Bottom line though is i do agree, people have more going for them than they themselves choose to see... I believe we have the ability to self govern. Cheers bro  It may take some mental conditioning before we are ready though... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
To remain free forever is quite easy, All it takes is to react to anothers idea of domination with compassion and understanding, and to teach him the message that he does have the power to contol his own life. If you have complete control over your own life, then why would you want to gain control over someone else?
If you look at some of the most ruthless, and demonstrotive dictators and generals in history, there control over another was nothing but a facaid to cover a weak, and tormented human being who had no control over his own excistance. |
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
justinc1431
on
Sat 12/27/08 09:49 PM
|
|
The problem is just as you stated, "90% of people are SOMEWHAT honest". Somewhat isn't good enough for a completely free nation with no hiearcy of government. Just as it happens in tribes before we came to this part of the world. People will seperate into factions, leaders will be chosen, and ultimately it will become a violent and chaotic atmosphere. You can only teach another person what you speak of if they are truly willing to accept it into their life. While your idea is novel concept of how things could be, it's not a rational or realistic approach.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Sat 12/27/08 09:49 PM
|
|
KatieKat,
If money didn’t exist, what motivation would there be to live? If all you had to do was offer the services of what you are best at, and all your NEEDS were adequately met and all your desires were at your disposal, would that not be reason enough to live? What value does money hold? What value is there in education if there is no power to be had from it? Is it not empowering enough to be all that you can be and to be appreciated for all you are? If the greatest gift you have is the music you create, is that not worthy enough, valuable enough to provide for all your needs? If your greatest skill is in painting or drawing, is that not valuable enough to pass on to others, for free, and make you worthy of having all your needs met? If you are capable of creating the ideas for technology that would free people of a manual labor, and another is capable of making that idea a reality is that not valuable and worth having their needs met? And if everyone was willing to teach others as they go along, is that not a great supplement to the education of others? Giving no thought to money or how it has affected people, when is a person not worthy of having all their needs met and all their desires available. You think only money can provide these things; people provide them. You think money holds value; ideas and team work hold greater value. You think people will fight for power, but what power is there to be had if everyone does what they are best at and if everyone values each other for their contribution. All contribution has value; who decided one is worth more than another? Do you think Thomas Edison invented the things that he did simply because he was curious? Yes, he did and because he wanted to make things better and he’s not the only one. If you could pursue all areas of your curiosity, try and fail, and try something else and fail until you find what makes you happy, what you are good at, wouldn’t you take advantage of that? And if in your wake there was a string of successes, before you try something new, did that come from love of money, or because you were given the opportunity to try many things? Why do we need a guy to mop the halls – can’t we create something to do that for us? Let the guy who used to mop the halls use whatever talents he has. The reason we place value on certain talents is because they improve our way of live, even if only aesthetically. But every person has something to contribute, even those who are mentally or physically challenged have value to offer, but we choose to equate value with the dollar, not with what people have to offer. Yes people make mistakes, but if a person could be replaced by equipment that would not make mistakes, who would there be to sue? There is a philosophical theory, put forth by Kant and others, that says good is intention and anything done with good intention must be recognized for its good, not for its outcome. If all intention is good, and an accident or a mistake takes place we go on. There is no loss of life that money can make better, and if everyone was totally cared for and still valued after any accident there would be no reason to sue, because there would nothing to gain. All that can be done would be done, without cost. If all comforts and needs were afforded to every individual, there would be no reason to pursue any activity, except for enjoyment and enrichment. If every person was allowed these pursuits technology would thrive, because people would be free to give away what they learn, not covet it for pay. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You think only money can provide these things; people provide them. You think money holds value; ideas and team work hold greater value. You think people will fight for power, but what power is there to be had if everyone does what they are best at and if everyone values each other for their contribution. All contribution has value; who decided one is worth more than another? The basic answer to this question is pretty simple. Certain contributions are easily done by many people. Others require a more specific education or ability to preform, therefore they become more valuable. It's the basics of supply and demand. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Sat 12/27/08 09:55 PM
|
|
Thomas
Well you can get rid of govenment all together and then what???Sooner or later someone is going to have to run the power plants and the people will have to hire and pay these people.Sooner or later you will have to form a military and police unit.Sooner or later you will have to form a school system.I'm trying to understand your logic for this topic unless you are saying we should just dump everything that makes the world go around and live in mud houses with no electricity or laws? Thomas – certainly there would have to be organizers, but they would be in no greater position than anyone else. If the talent of someone is to be a great organizer, let us value that talent and allow that person to contribute it. What need would there be for a military? I’m discussing issues here on a world basis, not just about the USA. When I say ALL PEOPLE, I mean ALL the people. What country in this world is not the product of capitalism? If we (ALL the people) freely offered all our natural resources and our brightest minds for the purpose of creating a world in which everyone has everything they need and want, what would there be to guard? Or to fight over? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The problem is just as you stated, "90% of people are SOMEWHAT honest". Somewhat isn't good enough for a completely free nation with no hiearcy of government. Just as it happens in tribes before we came to this part of the world. People will seperate into factions, leaders will be chosen, and ultimately it will become a violent and chaotic atmosphere. You can only teach another person what you speak of if they are truly willing to accept it into their life. While your idea is novel concept of how things could be, it's not a rational or realistic approach. Realism is the brains perception, thats it. People arent naturally violent, they act out in violence from some outside cause or fear. Remove that sickness from our souls, and these diporable acts cease to survive. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
BrandonJ
Why do you think humans have to be subjegated and mastered? Without this bondage that is the idea of governement, IMO you would see the most advancement this world has ever known. I dont think it would be nothing but chaos, i think the basic ideals that are human are decent, and we would see more if we wernt being taken advantage of by a parasitic government! Brandon, I agree with you. People are the way they are because of what they have been taught, because of their environment, not because they are deceitful, or evil, but because they see injustice and inequality and unfairness; all of which has its roots in capitalism. We are taught to believe the nature of humans is to take power, to be evil and manipulative and that’s what we see, a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don’t believe that’s what we’d see if an entire generation of people were raised in a world of plenty; in a world where people valued and respected the ecosystem and every other human being, just for being human. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Drivinmenutz
Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. Franklin was correct, but he failed to mention that every “nation” will eventually be corrupt, because ‘nations’ do not share cultures, or ideas, or value between each other “freely”. Nations guard resources and hold them hostage for trade value, who’s the highest bidder and what power do they offer in return? Think bigger, no nations, only other culture to share with, to learn about and to cherish the diversity of thought and philosophy. The ecosystem of this planet of this solar system grant us life, we are the only known beings capable of destroying it or restoring it, and of using it to support all of humanity. We would not run out of places to live and there would be no overcrowding because we could choose to live where ever we desired. No cost to visit people all over the world. It’s difficult to think this big, and more difficult to think beyond the training/programming that’s been impressed upon us. It’s also difficult to imagine how we could get to such a state, but if we don’t think about it, talk about it, discuss the possibilities; we are bound by the chains of destructive forces, the values of which are power and money. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The problem is just as you stated, "90% of people are SOMEWHAT honest". Somewhat isn't good enough for a completely free nation with no hiearcy of government. Just as it happens in tribes before we came to this part of the world. People will seperate into factions, leaders will be chosen, and ultimately it will become a violent and chaotic atmosphere. You can only teach another person what you speak of if they are truly willing to accept it into their life. While your idea is novel concept of how things could be, it's not a rational or realistic approach. Realism is the brains perception, thats it. People arent naturally violent, they act out in violence from some outside cause or fear. Remove that sickness from our souls, and these diporable acts cease to survive. What you're preaching is now reaching the point of a religous movement. You propose changing the souls of all mandkind? What do we do with those who don't wish to conform to the ideals you are speaking of? Turn the other cheek? Realism is taking what you see and know for fact and making an educated judgement, it's not perceptions as much as observations at this point in our civilization. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Justink
The basic answer to this question is pretty simple. Certain contributions are easily done by many people. Others require a more specific education or ability to preform, therefore they become more valuable. It's the basics of supply and demand. Do you honestly believe that EVERY PERSON who is capable of these "specialized" educations, is getting them? Imagine - the millions children currently being born damaged due to inadequate prenatal care and toxins in our environements, and lack of proper nutrition being born healthy, in a clean environment, with the best of medical care and nutrition. How many more of these millions would likewise be capable of "specialized" learning? Big Picure, big, big picture. Stop pigeon holing people into nations, and classes, equalize everyone and then imagine a world of no need, a world of total equality, a world where you can buy nothing because we could have whatever. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The point you all have in common so far is the idea of the great Utopia. It's a great bedtime story, and has been debated just as we are now for years and years. But to be able to implement such a change would be impossible. Topple our own government, release the encarcerated, remove an entire global marketplace, no monetary system, it's all great in theory, but that's all it remains.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The problem is just as you stated, "90% of people are SOMEWHAT honest". Somewhat isn't good enough for a completely free nation with no hiearcy of government. Just as it happens in tribes before we came to this part of the world. People will seperate into factions, leaders will be chosen, and ultimately it will become a violent and chaotic atmosphere. You can only teach another person what you speak of if they are truly willing to accept it into their life. While your idea is novel concept of how things could be, it's not a rational or realistic approach. Realism is the brains perception, thats it. People arent naturally violent, they act out in violence from some outside cause or fear. Remove that sickness from our souls, and these diporable acts cease to survive. What you're preaching is now reaching the point of a religous movement. You propose changing the souls of all mandkind? What do we do with those who don't wish to conform to the ideals you are speaking of? Turn the other cheek? Realism is taking what you see and know for fact and making an educated judgement, it's not perceptions as much as observations at this point in our civilization. Not so much in the name of relgion, in name of humanity. An awakining of what humans are really capable of and not left to this discourse of unsatisfaction |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Justink
What you're preaching is now reaching the point of a religous movement. You propose changing the souls of all mandkind? What do we do with those who don't wish to conform to the ideals you are speaking of? Turn the other cheek? Realism is taking what you see and know for fact and making an educated judgement, it's not perceptions as much as observations at this point in our civilization. There is no soul to be changed, there is only a bad programming to get over. Give people back their value and you will begin to see conformity. No one can change overnight or in a year or ten. That's the purpose for discussion, to banter ideas, to make concessions, to come to agreements and understandings, to work out the descrepancies. If you believe what you have said then observe what you see, and tell me that the value we place on money is not the cause of starvation, poverty and unnecessary illness and disease worldwide? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Justink What you're preaching is now reaching the point of a religous movement. You propose changing the souls of all mandkind? What do we do with those who don't wish to conform to the ideals you are speaking of? Turn the other cheek? Realism is taking what you see and know for fact and making an educated judgement, it's not perceptions as much as observations at this point in our civilization. There is no soul to be changed, there is only a bad programming to get over. Give people back their value and you will begin to see conformity. No one can change overnight or in a year or ten. That's the purpose for discussion, to banter ideas, to make concessions, to come to agreements and understandings, to work out the descrepancies. If you believe what you have said then observe what you see, and tell me that the value we place on money is not the cause of starvation, poverty and unnecessary illness and disease worldwide? Oh absolutely! I have no arguement with you on that. But this idea of this perfect world would take an insurmountable effort to even try to attempt. To me the idea seems quite naive. It would be fantastic if it were even remotely possible. By the way this is by far the best thread I've been involved in so far. It's good to see people can actually debate with out resorting to name calling and childish banter. I'd love to stay up and continue on, but I'm exhuasted. Thanks for giving my mind some exercise. This is all very thought provoking. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
BrandonJItaliano
on
Sat 12/27/08 10:26 PM
|
|
BrandonJs deffinition of soul
"The innermost core of ideas and beliefs held my an individual" Alternitive deff "That fluid motion of a human body while listening to a Al Green album" lol JK |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nice Brandon!
Good night Justink! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nite good, have a good 1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
By the way this is by far the best thread I've been involved in so far. You got that right. This is getting good. I think this idea is incredible and frankly I have no doubt we as human beings could make this happen over time. Of course I am under no illsion that the powers that be would fight it tooth and nail, but one day we will have no choice but to expand our thinking or be wiped out by those who would like to see us all as robots, that are programmed at the will of the powerful. It's very hard to imagine a world like this when you consider the unfairness of how things work now and the fact that some will always see themselves as superior than others, never considering that others make up the largest part of the whole world population and each have unique contributions that only some in this current situation will ever benefit from.. Anyway I too am exhausted and wouldn't you know i would find this topic last tonight...... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm really trying to keep a open mind on this subject and trust me I am not a fan of the government in any way.But seriously is my freedom any different than it was back in 1988 when I was a teenager?I can still get in my car and drive where ever I want,when I want.I can stay up all night and walk around the town.I can talk on the phone from sun up till sun down.I can pretty much do anything I desire unless it is hurting or offending someone.The only difference I have seen is more security at the airports.
For the record I think our government works very well.We get free medical after we retire.We get social security.We have good streets and highways.There is lots of free government programs for going to school.Our government gives free money(such as welfare and food stamps)to the poor.I really don't know what more you could ask for? |
|
|
|
|
