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| Topic: .........HOW TO BE SAVED......... | |
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pass the mashed potatoes and you will be saved 
I don't want to be saved. I just want the gravy. 
Owl take one of those stuffed peppers too! Yum yum! 
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pass the mashed potatoes and you will be saved
I don't want to be saved. I just want the gravy.
Owl take one of those stuffed peppers too! Yum yum!
you sure you want stuffed pepper. You go to hell for that
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Yeah stuffing anything will probably get you sent directly to hell if Im not mistaken. God doesnt approve of such culinary innuendo.
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Yeah stuffing anything will probably get you sent directly to hell if Im not mistaken. God doesnt approve of such culinary innuendo. At least you don't have a electricty bill to pay for. It is naturally hot down there 
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Edited by
smiless
on
Wed 12/17/08 09:04 PM
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Well I had enough silly for one day. I am taking my Buddhist, American Indian Spirited, Wizard Magiclore, law of gravity and attraction, agnostic spiritual telepathy mindful imaginative mixed up butt to bed.
Good night and good luck debating what is right or wrong. 
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Awwwwwww!  ((((morning song)))) I missed you too! I see you are still dodging spears and arrows. Don't lose faith my friend!
That's an intersting thought. Don't lose faith! Faith in what? Faith in God? Or faith in the Bible? Many people seem to have decided that if the Bible is false, then there must not be a God. They worship the Bible. I consider myself very fortunate to have been able to recognize that the Bible is not of God. Yet, this hasn't destoryed my faith in God at all. Just because one of many manmade mythologies turns out to be just as false as all the others doen't automatically mean that there is no God. Why does God need to have a mythology? Can't God just be God? Why do people feel a need to worship idols? Mythologies are idols. Can't they just believe in a creator who communiates with them directly via their own heart, soul, and emotions? People who keep faith in the Bible are doing jsut that. They are keeping a faith that the biblical story correctly describes God. Moreover they actaully demanding that God be like the Bible says! What will they do when they discover that God has nothing to do with the Bible? Will they feel betrayed? Why should they? They are the ones who tried to put God in a book, not the other way around. Faith in what? God? Or an ancient muddled mythology? I have faith in God. It's the ancient muddled mythology that I place no faith in. A mythology that claims that I'm at odds with my creator and clearly suggests that he's at odds with me as well. I was directing my statement to a "friend". What faith? Her faith in what she believes in. That is apparently not a faith which you share with her. Having no faith in anything is easier than to have faith in that which you cannot see. Your constant diatribe and chortling is indicative of nothing shy of immaturity. Believe (or don't believe) as you will but try to appear to be a little more sensitive to the views of others rather than coming across as a know it all babbling buffoon. Heck, you might even impress a lady. After all isn't that what you are here for? Perhaps not. |
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I want to ask this. My dad was a great family man. Did everything for us. He committed no crime against man. He helped his fellow man every time he was asked or could. To me he never committed a sin( I think that's impossible but never witnessed him committing one). He didn't go to church and I dont know if he ever accepted Jesus as his lord and savior.
Another man kills, rapes, molests ECT another human being. He confesses his sins and asks god for his forgiveness before he is put to death. Say my dad didn't, would he still got to hell and the other man to heaven? Just curious of peoples thoughts... |
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I want to ask this. My dad was a great family man. Did everything for us. He committed no crime against man. He helped his fellow man every time he was asked or could. To me he never committed a sin( I think that's impossible but never witnessed him committing one). He didn't go to church and I dont know if he ever accepted Jesus as his lord and savior. Another man kills, rapes, molests ECT another human being. He confesses his sins and asks god for his forgiveness before he is put to death. Say my dad didn't, would he still got to hell and the other man to heaven? Just curious of peoples thoughts... I think any God who created such a system would be far too heartless to even be called a God. Clearly such a being would be a demon. One thing that I'm certain of is that God must be nicer than me. If that't not true, then it wouldn't be much of a God at all since it would be lesser than me, a mere mortal man. According to the Christians, God is less compassionate and loving than I am. And they think I'm a buffoon. So they must really think lowly of God. |
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god ultimately knows whats in your heart so when the killer confesses god know if its true or fear
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Personally I would have found this thread more enlightening if it had been a discussion about becoming saved, rather than a thread debating if Christianity is the one true religion. If you want to discuss becoming saved it would be more productive to post that in the Christianity forum. 
That would be preaching to the choir. |
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HEYYYYYYYY!!!!! WHAT'S ALL THE FUSS ABOUT ON HERE!!!
DON'T YOU ALL KNOW IT'S CHRISTMAS? (<------eggnog)
HOW ABOUT SOME LOVE ,PEACE,AND GOOD CHEER ON HERE?
AND SOME HUMOUR TO LIGHTEN UP THE PLACE!! 
( ZAP!!! WHERE ART THOU!!! )
WE NEED YOU HERE!!
THIS THREAD IS A BIT DREARY!!
HEY...I LOVE YOU ALL , ANYWAY!!
SO DOES GOD!!!
BE OF GOOD CHEER NOW, EVERYONE!! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! AND.... DON'T FORGET TO GIVE GOD THE BEST PRESENT OF ALL THIS YEAR.
YOUR HEART.
(((((((( HUGS FROM THE HEART FOR ALL)))))))
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Wed 12/17/08 11:48 PM
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Apparently - as this thread has moved on, this post has turned into a challenge, so I will respond to it since you are calling out to christians to do so.
I am a Taoist-Christain, so don't freak out becuase of the following. If you intend to win the hearts and minds of people, lets dicuss a few of these points with the questions of non-believers. Point # 1: Who not what says we should conform to believing in your specfic diety? There are many faith claiming to be the "light and the "truth" and the "way". I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here. Is it your premise that there are many path's to God? If so - than what we need is some specifity to who or what that "God" is. If we are discussing the God who is the creator - than we start to narrow things down a bit. Otherwise - the question becomes who are these other God's of other faiths and how do we determine a definition of their attributes - or purpose if you will. I'll put of responding to point #1 until this becomes more clear. Point#2 How can all men be seperated from God? Isn't the tale of adam and eve similar to tales from various other religions. In fact some say it is almost an exact copy of the bablyionian tale of Gigamesh? How are we to trust the bible, a text written by men and whose version decended from the bible which was assembled by men at the council of Nicae around 300 a.d. nearly 300 years after christ. There are many texts which were added or left out over the centuries that followed, so is to say that the bible(whichever version you read) is genuine let alone the "word of God"? Okay - now I would presume that this God is the one of Judeo/christian origin to whom you refer. In which case - it is sin that separates man from God. Isn't the tale of other religions similar to Adam and Eve? Others say that the tale of Gigamesh is merely a retelling of the biblical story. A mere oral tradition put into words. How are we to trust the bible - you ask. Well, that would depend on what your world view of God is. In terms of the text itself - it self claims inspiration. Now - this presents the challenge to the reader of discernment and reason. Through inspiration - men have given us an idea of the attributes of God (henceforth refering to the God of scripture) one who is omniscient, all-knowing, omnipresent, who is the alpha and the omega (that is - eternal) and who exists in spirit - non-confined by the constraints of time. The creator of all that is, and nothing exists that was not created by him. If this is beyond your scope of acceptance, than I would be curious as how you would define a more powereful God, and how you would expect anyone to accept your definition in light of the one that exists in scripture. So let's assume for the moment that this definition of God is acceptable. If that is so - it would not be within the power of any man to misrepresent God in a text that professes to be inspired - for that contradicts our understanding of God. In addition to this, would not an all powerful and omniscient God know who is trustworthy enough to report exactly what He wants recorded, and to maintain the integrity of this? To do anything less - defies our definition and understanding of the God we're refering to. So it stands to reason that the bible would be considered trustworthy - reguardless of what presumptions one might assume man capable of in the manner of misrepresentation - for it is certainly within the ability and power and means of God to assure that his word be written down exactly the way he wished. Now - as to the manner in which it is read and understood - well, that is a different question all together, and not the one you asked. However - there is a "built in" assurity factor in the scripture. That is the Holy spirit. Once one accepts, and puts their faith in that one who is tha author of creation - they are filled with the Holy spirit, who's purpose is to teach, and lead one to the truth. Point #3 Why just Jesus? There have been many men who preformed miracles and brought light and wisdom to the world. Are we not all children of "God"? Why pick just one person to be the route to eternal salvation. Why just one way? Why Jesus? Because he said so. Either He was who He said He was - in which case He is in fact the way the truth and the light - or he was a lunatic who was murdered for claiming to be God. Most of the "enlightened ones" throughout History who have performed miracles or did good works did not profess to be what Jesus claimed he was. If so - their testamony was not one to have lasted the test of time. We know from Jesus that there were to be those who would come claiming to be Him - so far, none have seemed to hold up to their claims. Are we all children of God? No. Where do you get that idea? You have the means available to you to become a child of God - but you are not given it unless you recieve it. This idea that we are all children of God is not a biblical one. If there is but one God - and he says that the only way to spend eternity with him is by putting one's faith in Him, than that is the way. Any other means would tend to fall short. Can any of us walk into the Oval office whenever we want, just because we wish to? Is there anything analogous in life to this idea that any path will get you to an ultimate goal? If truth is absolute (and there's no reason why it wouldn't be) then there is a right way - and a wrong way. It would seem obvious that if there is only one way towards an eternity with God - that God would make it clear what that way was - else why bother? In which case, this would render the scriptures irrelevant - and if that were the case, why are they even here? Point #4 Again who not what says there is just one way. What about all those who lived before christ or even perhaps those who have never heard your message? Are you saying those poor souls are condemned to hell? What makes these individual/s who said there is only one way back to God right? Are they not men and also subject to sin as you have suggested and therefore making their "holy" knowledge questionable? You are not condemned by what you are not aware of - you are condemned by the willful rejection of that which you have been made aware of. So one is condemned through rejecting Christ, not by not having heard of him. As an additional note to this - how do you know that there is even one person who has not been made aware of who Christ is? You are offering up a poor argument here, as the assumption cannot be verified. Point#5 Who not what said proof was required of someones faith? Do not my actions and choices speak of my faith themselves? Again what makes individuals who say such things right? Is not my personal relationship with Christ and God enough? On this point - you are right. There is nothing that one can do in the way of "works" that has any bearing on salvation. These acts which are refered to in Morningsongs post refer to the actions that are demonstrated through the desire to do "God's will" (if you'll forgive the cliche), for once indwealt with the Holy spirit, an individual becomes a new man, and there is a radical change in view, desires, and intention. Of course it can be evidenced of being a christian by "walking in the light". This is explained in greater detail by the letters of John, but suffice it to say that it is not the "good deeds" that one does that gets them salvation - it is the "Good deeds" one does that is evidence that salvation has occured. I find it very disturbing the number of christians who can not actually answer such questions without constantly repeating verses which mean nothing to the none believer and ultimately are questionable to them as well as the number of questions that go unanswered as a result of such "salvation" tactics. It is my personal belief if one is to trully claim to be a member of a particular faith then must research it, study it, not just the texts but the history,languages and cultural backgrounds and ties. Quoting bible verses may win you a few followers but i believe you'll find that 2/3 of them will fall away from the "flock" when they start asking these questions. Most christians won't answer them or they believe quoting verses resolves such questions. They are horribly mistaken. Remeber all "truths" are subject to questioning and if you can not provide a intelligent and resonable answer or explaination then it your faith that is in question not the non-believer's. Just something to think about... 
Yes, it is a sad indeightment on christianity at large. Often, the bigest problem with christianity, is the christian's themselves. But in the bigger picture, christians are not much different from those who adamently reject Jesus and the bible. We are, after all, human. We each have the same capacity to do evil, as we do to do good. One need not be a christian to have morals, or do rightious acts. It is inherant in all of us to want to do both. It is only through self discipline that the potential to go either way is controlled. But to get back to your point. Most christians are not well equipped in apologetics. Many cannot even give reason for the hope that they have. But this is not a slight against christianity itself - just towards the testamony of christians who do not obey the mandate to strengthen their faith of assure their salvation. Many professed christians do not even know what the bible says on these matters that you have expressed. I would go as far as to say that it can be evidenced by the lifestyles and professions of belief, that a majority of professed christians, are in fact, not christians. They are no more filled with the Holy Spirit than the wood on the pews they sit in are. Especially in the numbers of christians expressed by the polls taken by the secular media. These numbers are grossly misrepresenting the number of "actual" christians. But that is a topic for another thread. |
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Morning song although I admire that you are making a good attempt to speak to deaf ears,the non Christian regulars here have no desire to be born again.I think we should concentrate our efforts on people who want to hear the word and talk to other positive Christians.These people are a bad influence morally and their hate for Christians is boiling like a tea kettle.If they want to go to Hell so be it.I am not going to lose any sleep over it.
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Morning song although I admire that you are making a good attempt to speak to deaf ears,the non Christian regulars here have no desire to be born again.I think we should concentrate our efforts on people who want to hear the word and talk to other positive Christians.These people are a bad influence morally and their hate for Christians is boiling like a tea kettle.If they want to go to Hell so be it.I am not going to lose any sleep over it. You are wrong. Nobody can go to a place he/she doesn't believe in. I don't believe in hell, it's a place created by fear, so no matter how hard you try, you'll not find me there when you arrive. |
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Edited by
Thomas3474
on
Thu 12/18/08 12:20 AM
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Well one of us is right and I'm pretty sure I know which one.
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Well one of us is right and I'm pretty sure I know which one. If you wanna go to heaven you should stop passing judgment so quickly. |
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HA!That a hot one.I think I will pass on your views on Christianity.Why do you even waste time talking to us?
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Thu 12/18/08 01:02 AM
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.....Salvation Explained..... I want to share with you five points that are very basic, although they will help you better understand yourself and more importantly the Lord. Just as there are manmade laws that govern our lands, such as local state and federal laws, there are also spiritual laws which govern your relationship with God. Point One God LOVES you so much, and he offers a wonderful PLAN for your life. God's Love ~ "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) This verse is often misunderstood by others, because the Bible definition of believe is different than today’s modern definition. To believe (Biblically), means to commit to, or to cleave to. Remember even the devil believes in God, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19 Therefore we must do more than just believe, we must commit our lives to Him. God's Plan ~ Jesus said, "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." (that it might be full and meaningful) (John 10:10) So why is it that most people are not experiencing the abundant life? Because... Point Two All men and women are SINFUL and SEPARATED from God. Therefore, we cannot know and experience God's love and plan for our lives. Man is Sinful ~ "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) Man was created to have fellowship with God; but, because of his stubborn self-will, he chose to go his own independent way and fellowship with God was broken. This self-will, characterized by an attitude of active rebellion or passive indifference, is evidence of what the Bible calls sin. Man is Separated ~ "For the [result] of sin is death" --spiritual separation from God (Romans 6:23) The third point explains the only way to bridge the gap between you and the Lord... Point Three Jesus Christ is God's ONLY provision for Man's sin. Through Jesus you can know and experience God's love and plan for your life. He Died in Our Place ~ "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8) He Rose from the Dead ~ "... Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures ... he was buried ... he rose again the third day according to the scriptures ... he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once" (1st Corinthians 15:3-6) He is the Only Way to God ~ "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.'" (John 14:6) (emphasis added on the) It is not enough just to know these three points. The fourth point is essential... Point Four We must individually RECEIVE Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord; then we can know and experience God's love and plan for our lives. We Must Receive Jesus Christ ~ "But as many as received Him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" (John 1:12) We Receive Christ Through Faith ~ "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9) When we Receive Christ, We Experience a New Birth ~ "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." (John 3:3-8) We Receive Christ by Personal Invitation ~ Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come to him" (Revelation 3:20) Receiving Christ involves turning to God from self (repentance) and trusting Christ to come into our lives to forgive our sins and to make us the kind of people He wants us to be. Just to agree intellectually that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins is not enough. Nor is it enough to have an emotional experience. We receive Jesus Christ by faith, as an act of will... Point Five Once you become a born-again Christian, there must be some evidence that you are a new person in Jesus Christ. A New Change ~ "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2nd Corinthians 5:17) There Must be Some Fruit (evidence) ~ "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works (deeds or service) is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" (James 2:20-22) Yes it is true that works, service or good deeds do not save us. Although they are the evidence of our salvation... Are you ready for the next step? You can receive Christ right now by faith through prayer (Prayer is talking with God) God knows your heart and is not so concerned with your words as He is with the attitude of your heart. Below is a suggested prayer. Remember you must mean it from your heart. Lord Jesus, I need you. Thank You for dying on the cross for my sins. I open the door of my life and receive You as my Savior and Lord. Thank You for forgiving my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of the throne of my life. Make me the kind of person You want me to be.! Does the above prayer express the desires of your heart? If it does, pray this prayer right now, and Jesus Christ will come into your life, in the form of His Holy Spirit, just as He promised. We are very excited if you received Jesus Christ as your Lord, and if you decided to follow Him. We would now love to help you grow as a Christian. Please let me know if you need any further assistance, or if you made a decision to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. chuck@chuckbaldwinlive.com
I am a Taoist-Christain, so don't freak out becuase of the following. If you intend to win the hearts and minds of people, lets dicuss a few of these points with the questions of non-believers. Point # 1: Who not what says we should conform to believing in your specfic diety? There are many faith claiming to be the "light and the "truth" and the "way". Point#2 How can all men be seperated from God? Isn't the tale of adam and eve similar to tales from various other religions. In fact some say it is almost an exact copy of the bablyionian tale of Gigamesh? How are we to trust the bible, a text written by men and whose version decended from the bible which was assembled by men at the council of Nicae around 300 a.d. nearly 300 years after christ. There are many texts which were added or left out over the centuries that followed, so is to say that the bible(whichever version you read) is genuine let alone the "word of God"? Point #3 Why just Jesus? There have been many men who preformed miracles and brought light and wisdom to the world. Are we not all children of "God"? Why pick just one person to be the route to eternal salvation. Why just one way? Point #4 Agian who not what says there is just one way. What about all those who lived before christ or even perhaps those who have never heard your message? Are you saying those poor souls are condemned to hell? What makes these individual/s who said there is only one way back to God right? Are they not men and also subject to sin as you have suggested and therefore making their "holy" knowledge questionable? Point#5 Who not what said proof was required of someones faith? Do not my actions and choices speak of my faith themselves? Again what makes individuals who say such things right? Is not my personal relationship with Christ and God enough? I find it very disturbing the number of christians who can not actually answer such questions without constantly repeating verses which mean nothing to the none believer and ultimately are questionable to them as well as the number of questions that go unanswered as a result of such "salvation" tactics. It is my personal belief if one is to trully claim to be a member of a particular faith then must research it, study it, not just the texts but the history,languages and cultural backgrounds and ties. Quoting bible verses may win you a few followers but i believe you'll find that 2/3 of them will fall away from the "flock" when they start asking these questions. Most christians won't answer them or they believe quoting verses resolves such questions. They are horribly mistaken. Remeber all "truths" are subject to questioning and if you can not provide a intelligent and resonable answer or explaination then it your faith that is in question not the non-believer's. Just something to think about...
Ok Maikuru...let's go thru your questions now...
You wrote: Question: Point # 1: Who not what says we should conform to believing in your specfic diety? There are many faith claiming to be the "light and the "truth" and the "way". Answer: Maikuru......No other book but the Bible, nor any other religion, besides Christianity, mentions a Saviour. Christianity, btw, was never meant to be turned into a religion . Once a person is saved and becomes a christian, he finds he is no longer involved in just a religion, but now finds he has a relationship with God .... after recieving Jesus as SAVIOUR. THAT is what Christianity was always meant to be about in the first place..... RELATIONSHIP BACK WITH GOD.... which is made possible by accepting and believing on Christ Jesus as Saviour ( and meaning it from the heart, of course). ONLY the Bible, which is the Divinely Inspired Word of God, mentions a SAVIOUR .....JESUS....(Jesus means Saviour) !!!! Jesus also is called Immanuel(meaning God WITH Us). And Jesus our Saviour was sent for ALL mankind...... for the Whole Wide World.
Question: Point#2 How can all men be seperated from God? Isn't the tale of adam and eve similar to tales from various other religions. In fact some say it is almost an exact copy of the bablyionian tale of Gigamesh? How are we to trust the bible, a text written by men and whose version decended from the bible which was assembled by men at the council of Nicae around 300 a.d. nearly 300 years after christ. There are many texts which were added or left out over the centuries that followed, so is to say that the bible(whichever version you read) is genuine let alone the "word of God"? Answer: Maikuru...SIN separated us from God...... which started when adam and eve disobeyed God in the garden of eden. Disobedience(sin) separated adam and eve from God... and becasue we all come from adam, we all are also born with a sin nature, that only God can fix again( thru accepting Jesus as Lord.... which then closes the breach of separation between man and God)... bringing us back into fellowship and relationship with God once more. All it takes is FAITH on our part, to believe and accept that Jesus died on that cross.... to pay for all of our sins ... so we wouldn't have to pay or suffer anymore... and God steps in and comes to live in our heart...also giving us eternal life once more.... and re-establishing us back into relationship with God Almighty... just like it was in the beginning
Question: Point #3 Why just Jesus? There have been many men who preformed miracles and brought light and wisdom to the world. Are we not all children of "God"? Why pick just one person to be the route to eternal salvation. Why just one way? Answer: Maikuru.... Jesus said, "I AM the Way , the Truth, the Life.... NO man Comes to the Father but By Me." Maikuru.....Jesus ALWAYS WAS... (Jesus is "I AM") from the very foundations of the world... and yet, He stepped down to dwell with us , and bear our sins for us on that cross...so we could go free. That's LOVE, Maikuru.
No one else did that but Jesus. Jesus is also known as the WORD... the Very One Who Created Us... and also Created all the heavens and the earth... yet he left All His Glory behind in heaven... so He could come down and dwell with us .... and die for us ... but He also rose again ...so we too could not only be free , but aLso have eternal life again .
Question: Point #4 Again who not what says there is just one way. What about all those who lived before christ or even perhaps those who have never heard your message? Are you saying those poor souls are condemned to hell? What makes these individual/s who said there is only one way back to God right? Are they not men and also subject to sin as you have suggested and therefore making their "holy" knowledge questionable? Answer: When Jesus rose from the dead, he also took with him, all those souls who believe in God before Him, and took them alll back to heaven with Him .
Question: Point#5 Who not what said proof was required of someones faith? Do not my actions and choices speak of my faith themselves? Again what makes individuals who say such things right? Is not my personal relationship with Christ and God enough? Answer: The proof follows that you are born of God... there will be evidence of a changed life and fruits of the spirit showing (love, joy, peace)... but mostly..... a born again Chrsitian just knows in his heart that he is saved, cause God's Holy Spirit bears witness with his own spirit , letting him know without a shadow of doubt that he is truly saved!! A Christian just knows. Plus the Holy Spirt also comes to actually DWELL in his own spirit.... and he becomes a brand new creature in Christ Jesus..... because he is now BORN OF GOD (which is what being born again in the spirit means). And a christian is NEVER the Same.
And Maikuru.... that Great Salvation is offered to all mankind... it is a Free Gift of Grace Given... cause Jesus already paid the price in full ...on that cross for Us All. Hope this helps now, Maikuru... sorry I could not get back to you until now. Be Blessed Now, Young Man!! And Merry Christmas!!!
(((((( Maikuru)))))
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Why Jesus? Because he said so. Either He was who He said He was - in which case He is in fact the way the truth and the light, or he was a lunatic, who was murdered for claiming to be God.
This is an extremely simplistic view Eljay, and it is also an extremely good example of how so many Christians can't think outside of the box they have stuck themselves. What box is that? It's the idea that the words in the Bible are TRUE - NO MATTER WHAT! You see, when you say that either Jesus was telling the truth or he was a lunatic, that automatically presumes that everything that the New Testament attributed to Jesus was actually spoken by him! This is where I vehemently disagree. The assumption that Christians can't seem to get past is the idea that every word in the Bible is the verbatim truth. That these words were actually spoken by Jesus. Therefore only two possibilities exist. Either he was telling the truth, or he was a raving lunatic. I don't believe either is true. There are other possibilities. What I believe is that Jesus denounced the Old Testament. He was crucified for blaspheme, probably instigated by the Jews but possibly carried out by the Romans. Who knows? Maybe the Jews crucified him themselves without the help of the Romans and then later blamed it on the Romans. We'll never know the truth. No one could blame the Jews for crucifying Jesus for blaspheme because the Old Testament commanded them to do precisely that. To murder heathens and blasphemists. Jesus clearly preached against things of the Old Testament (even according to the New Testament that was written later) Jesus' teachings became popular, especially after his death which made him into a martyr. Many people were following the teachings of Jesus (which went against the orthodox religion of the day). The orthodox religion was losing it's control over people. For a while there were just rumors about the teachings of Jesus and what he stood for. Rumors that weren't supportive of the Old Testament. So the people in authority decided to do something about it. They took the rumors of Jesus and wrote them up into the "gospels". Then they printed those gospels and denounced any accounts that were not in agreement with their written "Bible". They proclaimed it to be the "Word of God". They used Jesus to prop up the very religion that Jesus spoke out against. All the words that you read in the New Testament that were attributed to Jesus are words that were put into the mouth of a dead man. There is not a single solitary word in the Bible that was actually placed there by Jesus himself. So for you to claim that he had to have been a lunatic if he wasn't God is absurd. You're just assuming that everything you read in the New Testament is a verbatim true account of every word that actually came out of the mouth of the man named Jesus. But it's extremely unlikely that this is the case. In fact, I would personally argue that if the creator of this universe were going to bother to incarnate someone to send a message to mankind he'd have that person write the message down himself. Why would God leave it up to mortal men to write down there version of what happened decades after the fact? That alone doesn't even make any sense to me personally. If Jesus was truly God he would have written down what he wanted to say. That makes far more sense to me. The mere fact that all we have is hearsay is actually evidence to me that Jesus wasn't God. I see absolutely no reason to put my faith in the authors of the New Testament. I can clearly see their motive for using Jesus to revitalize the very religion that Jesus had spoken out against! I personally believe that Jesus actually spoke out against the violence and bigotry of the Old Testament. There is no reason at all why I should trust the authors of the New Testament to be speaking for Jesus or put any faith in anything they have to say. Yet you talk about the New Testament as though it's the "Gospel Truth" of every word Jesus uttered. I don't buy that at all. I see no reason to believe that. As far as I'm concerned there are far more reason why I shouldn't believe that the New Testament is a true account of what happened. I believe that the New Testament was actually written by Jesus' enemies, not his friends. That's my belief. And it goes very deep for me, because I can give you a myriad of reasons why it makes absolutely no sense at all that the original God of the Old Testament would have sent Jesus to change his commands, and be a sacrificial lamb to pay for the sins of man. None of that makes any sense to me at all. Not in the slightest. In fact, I'd have to believe some really nasty things about God to accept the biblical story in it's entirety. The idea that Jesus preached against the Old Testament, was crucified for blaspheme, and then used as a dead marionette doll to prop up the failing religion, makes perfect sense to me. So as far as I'm concerned, that's far more likely what actually happened. I see absolutely no reason to believe otherwise. Jesus was crucified twice. Once on the pole, and the second time when he was nailed to the Old Testament to prop it up. That's my belief. It sincerely is.
You people are actually supporting the murders of Jesus when you preach Christianity. |
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HA!That a hot one.I think I will pass on your views on Christianity.Why do you even waste time talking to us? Because most of the Christians, other than you, do not pass judgment. Look at MorningSong, she does her bit, but never judges one for his/her belief. You on the other hand call people idiots, and their posts demented, only because they don't believe as you do. You see the difference? |
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