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Topic: Wiccans - part 3
Ruth34611's photo
Sun 12/07/08 09:58 AM


Does that mean we all belong to the organization of unorganized religion?surprised


rofl rofl rofl

yes, as Jill pointed out above, it is impossible for the world to accept us as "uncategorizable". So, we are now "The Others".

Ruth34611's photo
Sun 12/07/08 09:58 AM





We all sort of quit discussing Wicca once we came to the realization that it was in fact an organized religion and not only that, the 5th largest in the US to date. Everybody thought twice about it then. happy


laugh Yeah, we all have different beliefs here, but the one thing we have in common is a strong distaste for organized religion of ANY kind.


Does that mean we all belong to the organization of unorganized religion?surprised


Oh no, now thats a new concern. laugh huh Soon there will be the "Association of Unorganized Religions" or AUR. Luckily they are based in Florida and are somewhat disorganized. happy


rofl rofl rofl slaphead

no photo
Sun 12/07/08 09:59 AM
Oh heck, I quittongue2

Jill298's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:01 AM
I do think everything is a learning experience, and it's about what you get out of it. It's how you handle and deal with things that happen to you. But, that doesn't make it "fair". I think what's fair and not fair is really up for debate. If someone breaks into my home, rapes and beats me. Just because I may be able to deal with it after a long ordeal of therepy, tears, and support, doesn't make it "fair".

Nohottiesheresrsly's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:01 AM
Edited by Nohottiesheresrsly on Sun 12/07/08 10:08 AM
Things that happen include spinning chairs. Footsteps in the house from the upstairs rooms, while no one else is home.

Footsteps in general at night. One time after I went to the RenFair I was wearing an Indian tribal dancer anklet which I took off at the coffee table. It 3:30am it was jingling. No one other then me is ever up that late.

Apparently on Halloween my dad was home alone and he heard a whisper in the basement and a hand touch him.

My mom claims to have woken up with the feeling of someone sleeping and breathing right next to here. I was in the living room with my dad when she asked if he came into her room at night, slept there and then went back into his own room. He said he didn't and I suggested it was probably the dog even though he sleeps in my room, but there was no further discussion.

There have been instances of lights flickering.
Or walking into a room and the light just goes off.

My brother claims he saw something walking in the yard once, which the way he described it sounded like a shadow being.

My mother claims to have seen some kind of slightly overweight woman in a black dress follow me once when I came home. It apparently was behind me and went upstairs into my mothers room while I was taking off my boots. She followed it and she claims it told her to stop praying to the Quran and start following Christianity instead.

My dad once came to me and told me that I need to stop doing "witchcraft" because he thinks i'm responsible for all of it.
I told him I don't even do witchcraft and it's just me burning incense or candles usually for aromatherapy.
EEXXCCUUSEE me if I like pretty smells.. gawd.
Or i'll burn sage when I clean my room. That's not "witchcraft".

But it really convinced me something was going on if he had to approach me seriously about it. He usually just laughs everything off and always came off as someone who didn't believe in ghosts or anything supernatural.

Even the whole pagan thing. None of my parents have been bothered by the fact I have an alter in my room. They just joke about it then considering it anything serious. Which I'm completely fine with, they can joke about it, I really don't care. It beats them giving me s*hit about it, you know?

BTW: I have NOT been summoning up spirits or anything, but they all think it's because of me.

My room is pretty typical goth, purple walls, hanging skeletons and all that sp0oky stuff I love. My mom was like maybe you need to get rid of all of that, which I REFUSE! I'm not going to change who I am over some stupid sh*T like this!

I tried the OUIJA with my brother after the anklet incident, but we got nothing.

*shurg*

I can't really say if it's hostile or not and I kinda don't want to get rid of it because it's just too cool of a concept. MY house being haunted, hell yeah!

Jill298's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:01 AM



Does that mean we all belong to the organization of unorganized religion?surprised


rofl rofl rofl

yes, as Jill pointed out above, it is impossible for the world to accept us as "uncategorizable". So, we are now "The Others".
Others are hot love love

Jill298's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:03 AM

Things that happen include spinning chairs. Footsteps in the house from the upstairs rooms, while no one else is home.

Footsteps in general at night. One time after I went to the RenFair I was wearing an Indian tribal dancer anklet which I took off at the coffee table. It 3:30am it was jingling. No one other then me is ever up that late.

Apparently on Halloween my dad was home alone and he heard a whisper in the basement and a hand touch him.

My mom claims to have woken up with the feeling of someone sleeping and breathing right next to here. I was in the living room with my dad when she asked if he came into her room at night, slept there and then went back into his own room. He said he didn't and I suggested it was probably the dog even though he sleeps in my room, but there was no further discussion.

There have been instances of lights flickering.
Or walking into a room and the light just goes off.

My brother claims he saw something walking in the yard once, which the way he described it sounded like a shadow being.

My mother claims to have seen some kind of slightly overweight woman in a black dress follow me once when I came home. It apparently was behind me and went upstairs into my mothers room while I was taking off my boots. She followed it and she claims it told her to stop praying to the Quran and start following Christianity instead.

My dad once came to me and told me that I need to stop doing "witchcraft" because he thinks i'm responsible for all of it. It really convinced me something was going of it he had to approach me about it. He usually just laughs everything off and always came off as someone who didn't believe in ghosts or anything supernatural.

BTW: I have NOT been summoning up spirits or anything, but they all think it's because of me.

My room is pretty typical goth, purple walls, hanging skeletons and all that sp0oky stuff I love. My mom was like maybe you need to get rid of all of that, which I REFUSE! I'm not going to change who I am over some stupid **** like this!

I tried the OUIJA with my brother after the anklet incident, but we got nothing.

*shurg*

I can't really say if it's hostile or not and I kinda don't want to get rid of it because it's just too cool of a concept. MY house being haunted, hell yeah!

try contacting that paranormal team on A&E. Paranormal State I think it's called. They're from Penn State...

Ruth34611's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:04 AM

Others are hot love love


Yes we are. drinker

Ruth34611's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:05 AM

I can't really say if it's hostile or not and I kinda don't want to get rid of it because it's just too cool of a concept. MY house being haunted, hell yeah!



I just don't know enough about such things to give you good advice. I'm sorry. flowerforyou

Abracadabra's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:06 AM
While you are not to be blamed for what happened to you by the hands of another, in some way unknown to you, you have attracted that experience.

jb


That's certainly your own personal faith Jeannie.

I personally don't believe that way.

I believe that we do have a lot of control over what we attract into our lives, but I don't believe that we are totally responsible for attracting everything.

In fact, as far as I'm concered I can pretty much prove this to be the case.

My father died when I was 9 years old.

Did I attract that event into my life?

I doubt it.

What about my mother?

Did she attract into her life that her husband would die?

What about my sister, did she also attract into her life that her father would die too?

Clearly for your absolutism is to be true, it would need to be the case that My mother, my sister and I all attracted the death of my father into our lives.

I think it's perfectly clear that we are not individually responsiblefor attracting everything into our lives.

I used the death of my father.

But what if my mother had remarried an absusive man.

Would I have been responsible for having attracted that abusive man into my life? Would she have been responsible for having attracted an absusive man into her life? Would my sister have been responsible?

Do you see the problem Jeannie?

It just can't be an absolute.

Clearly there are things in our lives that we were not responsible for attracting.

I think that has to be a given.

Not meant to be argumentative.

But you state it like as if it's a fact that we are responsible for attracting everything into our lives.

And I just don't see how that can even be possible.

Unless you believe in solipsism and that your parents, siblings, and even your friends, are aren't real people in their own right.

I don't believe in solipsism myself. bigsmile

no photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:06 AM



I think we just agree to the RISK before we come into this life.



Okay, I think you may be onto something here. Maybe it's not that we ask for certain horrible things, but I do think we are all here to grow and learn and evolve. So, maybe we are agreeing to live through certain atrocities in order to accomplish that.

So, whether you are the victim or the rescuer, you are evolving. Which means that the abuser is somehow learning and evolving, too. One thing I do know, is that the more I suffer the more I can feel empathy for others who suffer.

AND, when we do something bad in our lives and we recognize it as bad it can help us understand where another person is coming from who does the same bad thing and help them to see a better way. Maybe it's all about evolving to a higher level of living and spiritual being. Maybe.


Ruth said:

"One thing I do know, is that the more I suffer the more I can feel empathy for others who suffer."

This is the key to understanding the heights and depths of the things we experience in this reality.

A person who has never been ill may never learn to feel compassion for the sick.

Compassion is not a natural thing. It is learned. If you have never been a victim, never lost a loved one, etc. it is difficult to feel compassion for those who have.

You must experience these things to evolve I think. You agreed to experience all that is necessary for you to evolve. If you come into this world and you retain or have love and compassion for others naturally, then it is not going to be necessary to experience these negative things at all.

This is why it is extremely important for you to learn all that you can learn from your bad experiences here, because if you don't, you will have to repeat them until you do learn.

Learn and move on. Learn and evolve. Surrender to unconditional love and understanding and take full responsibility for your reality and you will move on to the next step.

Refuse to do this, and you will continue to go to school

jb

Ruth34611's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:09 AM


Ruth said:

"One thing I do know, is that the more I suffer the more I can feel empathy for others who suffer."

This is the key to understanding the heights and depths of the things we experience in this reality.

A person who has never been ill may never learn to feel compassion for the sick.

Compassion is not a natural thing. It is learned. If you have never been a victim, never lost a loved one, etc. it is difficult to feel compassion for those who have.

You must experience these things to evolve I think. You agreed to experience all that is necessary for you to evolve. If you come into this world and you retain or have love and compassion for others naturally, then it is not going to be necessary to experience these negative things at all.

This is why it is extremely important for you to learn all that you can learn from your bad experiences here, because if you don't, you will have to repeat them until you do learn.

Learn and move on. Learn and evolve. Surrender to unconditional love and understanding and take full responsibility for your reality and you will move on to the next step.

Refuse to do this, and you will continue to go to school

jb



That's it. I really think that's it. Good explanation, JB.

Krimsa's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:12 AM
Edited by Krimsa on Sun 12/07/08 10:13 AM
JB said

Compassion is not a natural thing. It is learned. If you have never been a victim, never lost a loved one, etc. it is difficult to feel compassion for those who have.


Would you consider compassion to be the same thing as empathy? I have never looked up the actual definitions of these words so Im uncertain if they are synonymous. Humans are born with the ability to feel empathy. This trait begins to develop around 3 years of age, though its very crude in its initial stages. Children begin to understand that they can effect living organisms outside of themselves in either a positive or negative manner.

The exception to this developmental process is that of a sociopath or someone suffering from a borderline personality disorder. They are incapable of feeling empathy but instead view the world entirely in terms of how it effects them alone.

Jill298's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:13 AM
So what's the point then? We must endure so much pain in our lives just so we can be compassionate to others that experience it too? I don't understand...

Ruth34611's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:15 AM
I think they are different terms. Yes, my daughter will feel empathy for her sister if her sister is sick. But, true compassion for another human being can only come from experiencing what they are experiencing. Or maybe it's the other way around. We are born with the ability to have compassion, but not truly empathize? Someone needs to get a dicitonary out.

Jill298's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:15 AM

JB said

Compassion is not a natural thing. It is learned. If you have never been a victim, never lost a loved one, etc. it is difficult to feel compassion for those who have.


Would you consider compassion to be the same thing as empathy? I have never looked up the actual definitions of these words so Im uncertain if they are synonymous. Humans are born with the ability to feel empathy. This trait begins to develop around 3 years of age, though its very crude in its initial stages. Children begin to understand that they can effect living organisms outside of themselves in either a positive or negative manner.

The exception to this developmental process is that of a sociopath or someone suffering from a borderline personality disorder. They are incapable of feeling empathy but instead view the world entirely in terms of how it effects them alone.
So someone who is a sociopath and is incapable of feeling empathy and compassion, does that mean they attracted that too?

Ruth34611's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:16 AM

So what's the point then? We must endure so much pain in our lives just so we can be compassionate to others that experience it too? I don't understand...


I think it all comes down to love. Love is the key to spiritual growth. When we learn to love better we grow spiritually. And, once we reach the level of Jesus or Buddha or other such "spiritual masters" we can stop reincarnating.

no photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:17 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sun 12/07/08 10:27 AM

While you are not to be blamed for what happened to you by the hands of another, in some way unknown to you, you have attracted that experience.

jb


That's certainly your own personal faith Jeannie.

I personally don't believe that way.

I believe that we do have a lot of control over what we attract into our lives, but I don't believe that we are totally responsible for attracting everything.

In fact, as far as I'm concered I can pretty much prove this to be the case.

My father died when I was 9 years old.

Did I attract that event into my life?

I doubt it.

What about my mother?

Did she attract into her life that her husband would die?

What about my sister, did she also attract into her life that her father would die too?

Clearly for your absolutism is to be true, it would need to be the case that My mother, my sister and I all attracted the death of my father into our lives.

I think it's perfectly clear that we are not individually responsiblefor attracting everything into our lives.

I used the death of my father.

But what if my mother had remarried an absusive man.

Would I have been responsible for having attracted that abusive man into my life? Would she have been responsible for having attracted an absusive man into her life? Would my sister have been responsible?

Do you see the problem Jeannie?

It just can't be an absolute.

Clearly there are things in our lives that we were not responsible for attracting.

I think that has to be a given.

Not meant to be argumentative.

But you state it like as if it's a fact that we are responsible for attracting everything into our lives.

And I just don't see how that can even be possible.

Unless you believe in solipsism and that your parents, siblings, and even your friends, are aren't real people in their own right.

I don't believe in solipsism myself. bigsmile



Abra,


Like I said before, if you are not comfortable accepting full responsibility for your experiential reality that is okay. It is a personal choice.

I state it as a fact because I believe it to be a fact.

I have decided to accept everything that happens to me as something that I have agreed to accept responsibility for.

It is not about solipsism. It is about the law of attraction and about reincarnation.

We knew before we came into this world that it was a world of life and death. We knew we would experience the death of our loved ones in all manner of ways.

No, you as a child did not attract the death of your mother or father. Of course not. But you as spirit understood and agreed that these lives here in this world were lives of life and death and that you would experience this.

In reality, nobody dies. We come here for a very short time compared to our true reality. After we are gone from here our lives here will be like a very short dream.






Jill298's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:19 AM
I understand you need to experience to truly understand. For example... if I went on a roller coaster ride and tried to explain it to Ruth (sorry you're my guinea pig today flowerforyou ) assume Ruth has never been on a roller coaster. I can tell her how fast it was, thrilling, exciting. We all screamed when we dropped down really fast. Ruth would get a good idea of what I went thru. But she won't fully understand until she stands in line and goes on the same ride.

Krimsa's photo
Sun 12/07/08 10:20 AM
Jill said:

So someone who is a sociopath and is incapable of feeling empathy and compassion, does that mean they attracted that too?


Attracted that? Im not sure I understand the question? Do you mind elaborating?

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