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Topic: Wiccans - part 3
Ruth34611's photo
Sat 12/06/08 03:38 PM
I have a netflix dvd on the way called Unsolved History: Salem Witch Trials. I don't know how bad it will be, but if it's like you described above I don't know if I can watch it.

Krimsa's photo
Sat 12/06/08 03:50 PM
Edited by Krimsa on Sat 12/06/08 03:51 PM
If its a documentary, it wont be too awful Im sure. They will probably show the implementations of torture that they used and how they used them which will be pretty disturbing. Essentially they would start torturing you and ask if you were a Witch. A lot of these people were not and were wrongly accused Christians and so they would say no they wernt and a mistake had been made. So they would start torturing until you eventually confessed just to get them to stop. But then they would want you to give up the names of other "Witches" so then they could claim that so and so pointed out these people before she was executed.

It was sheer lunacy. huh

Ruth34611's photo
Sat 12/06/08 03:51 PM
Yeah, it's a documentary. One of these days I'm going to go to the Salem Witch Museum.

Krimsa's photo
Sat 12/06/08 03:59 PM


The Green Man is a symbol of uncertain origin common in the British Isles. Classic examples are most frequently found among the stonework in and on churches, though it is more likely pagan in nature. It depicts a man with foliage for hair, usually with either a leafy beard or with leaves growing out of his mouth and nose. A similar nature spirit is the wild man of the woods, the woodwose.

Other possible references to him are Green George, Jack-in-the-Green, John Barleycorn and the Green Knight.

The image of the Green Man is popular with modern Wiccans and other Neopagans.

Krimsa's photo
Sat 12/06/08 04:38 PM

Yeah, it's a documentary. One of these days I'm going to go to the Salem Witch Museum.


I remember years ago I watched a horror movie called "The Pit and the Pendulum".It was kind of funny and a little bit low budget but it took place in Spain in the late1400s and it was about this priest who is just torturing and pretty much murdering this entire small village. But then this beautiful girl publicly speaks out about the Church and all these atrocities that are being committed in the name of religion so he cant have that because she is beginning to have a following so he orders her picked up.

Then he tries to torture her but of course hes attracted to her physically so that leads him to all kinds of feelings of temptation that he has to quiet with brutal atonement.

It was so overly dramatic and not intended to be serious yet Im sure these things went on all the time. :tongue: happy

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 12/06/08 05:54 PM
Edited by Abracadabra on Sat 12/06/08 06:18 PM

Wow. interesting. I had never heard of her. I will check out that link. Isnt a Hypatia a kind of flower? That name sounds familiar. Anyway, thanks. I've never actually heard that connection made to a brutally beaten person and the caricature of a Halloween Witch before so its possible that it was based in the author's mind.

However, what she was describing was historically accurate and not simply an appeal to emotion. Inquisitioners would come in the middle of the night or early morning hours before dawn and kidnap suspected Witches from their homes. They ripped out fingernails, broke bones, tore out hair etc.. and so after hours of that, a person is going to look repulsive and retched. Its a very plausible scenario to say the least. scared


Here's a portrait of Hypatia



I've heard her story over and over again in college, both in physics courses and in math classes. She was considered a very bright mathematician and scientist.

The Christians seem to hate intelligent people for some reason.

Another woman who was seriously hassled by the Christian male-chauvinistic socieity was Emmy Noether. I also learned about her in physics classes.

She was a contemporary of Albert Einstein and in fact, showed Einstein a few mathematical tricks.


Emmy Noether



She had to sit in college classes for no credit, because women weren't allowed to earn degrees in her day and location.

None the less she made it to Ph.D. level on her own. I think she was finally recognized for her achievement as the world was becoming slightly more civil over the course of her lifetime.

Albert Einstein showed that Mass and Energy are the same stuff, in different manifestations.

Werner Heisenberg showed that Position and Momentum (time) are mutually exclusive. (i.e. Different manifestations of the same concept)

Emmy Noether then came along and showed that Mass and Position are mutually conserved quanitities, as are Time and Energy.

I'm sure this may not seem monumental to you. But it basically boils down to the following:

Einstein says, "Hmmm? Mass and Energy are the same thing!"

Heisenberg says, "Hmmm? Position and Time are the same thing!"

Emmy Noether says, "It's ALL ONE THING fellas!"

laugh

It's true though. drinker

Emmy Noether put it all together and showed that everything is mutually related. All is one.

Ever hear of her?

It's truly sad if you haven't because she deserves every bit as much notoriety as Einstein and Heisenberg.

Our male chuavinistic society, brought to us by our loving Christians, just isn't prepared to give credit where credit is due. grumble



Abracadabra's photo
Sat 12/06/08 05:59 PM
In the chapter called The Science of Spellcraft in The Outer Temple Penczak lays out the three main requirements that make spells work. It may seem simple on the surface, but there are pitfalls to avoid.

Most people do these three things without even realizing it, even non-witches. This is how they create so-called 'Miracles'. And they think that God did it for them. Well of course 'God' did it for them. That's how magick works!

But the reason that only some of their prayers are answered and others are not answered is often because some of the ingredients are missing. Owl explain the three ingredients here because they are no secret and shouldn't be kept a secret. None the less, just knowing what they are may not be enough. A genuine sincere understanding of them is what is important.

1. Intent and Desire.

It is necessary to genuinely have a deep desire and intent to either bring the manifestation to fruition yourself, or see it bought to fruition by the elemental magick. If that sincerity isn't there the spell may not work. Also, there is a danger here as well, if there is intent (perhaps based on logic rather than instinct) the intent may be strong enough to make the spell work, yet in the end, the results may not truly be desirable. Therefore it is important to be careful what you ask for in a spell. You just might get it! None the less, a genuine intent and desire are require. Performing a spell for something you truly aren't interested in is a waste of energy.

A good example might be to ask for money with no genuine purpose in mind. Do you really want money? Probably not. You probably want what you think that money can obtain for you. So a much better spell would be to ask for what you truly want (.i.e. Love, Happiness, Friends, Sustenance, Shelter, Health, etc.) Then the spell may still produce money, or it may produce the final result directly. The point is to ask for what you truly want and not for the means to get it. Let the universe (or gods) will decide how to manifest your desire.

2. The Communiqué

This is the prayer. The 'Word'. The language.

The idea behind magick is that the universe is truly mental. Row, row, row, your boat, life is but a dream.

Life is the dream of God. Physical manifestation is all a result of the thoughts of the 'Mind of God'. God is the 'word' and the 'word' is God.

The 'word' is not a dogma that was supposedly handed down by God to be written into a rule book. The 'word' means that God is mind. And 'word' means thought. And thoughts can often be best communicated via symbols. Symbols are words in the mind of God.

When we communicate our desires to God we often refer to that communication as a prayer. A spell is a prayer. And it's not call a 'spell' by accident. It's called a 'spell' because we are literally 'spelling out' what we want in a language that Mind of God, or the universe, understands. That language is mental visualization. Not sentences constructed in manmade languages.

Although, having said that, spoken words are also powerful if they contribute directly to the mental visualization. This is why short rhyming poems work best for magick or prayer. The shorter and more concise the better. The idea is to verbally paint a mental picture of what is wanted.

This is why I had commented a while back on Scott Cunningham's Fire magic for Healing.

He wrote the following healing Chant:

Scott's Original Chant:

Burn the Sickness in your flame
Burn the sickness that would maim
Burn the illness by your might
Burn the illness in your light
Heal me of this illness pain
Heal me of all that's bane
Heal me and set me free
With my will so mote it be!

~~~

Well, that sounds real 'witchy' but is it a visualization of good health?

No, it's a visualization of sickness and illness.

I rewrote the healing Chant as follows

Flames of fire
help me aspire
to the perfect health
that I desire

Purge me with your energy
merge with me in synergy

A perfect body I envision
without a touch of indecision
Cleanse me with your dancing flame
make so, as I proclaim


Notice how the first chant creates a visualization of sickness, illness, pain, and bane. Yuck! sick

The chant I wrote is a visualization of what I want, not of what I don't want!

This is important because visualization is a huge part of the communiqué.

Ask for and visualize what you want, don't ask to be rid of what you don't want!

Scott Cunningham died of a long illness at a fairly young age. Although he was a witch, and performing spells, there it is a very real possibility that he was making a very basic crucial mistake without even realizing it.

He may very well have been bringing sickness, illness, and pain onto himself by strongly visualizing and chanting to be rid of what he didn't want! His magic rituals may have very well been bringing him the very thing he was trying to get rid of! His magic was working, but in the opposite way that he had intended.

Of course, that's just a guess, but he did publish the above healing chant, and he did die fairly young after suffering a long bout of illness. So be careful of what you ask for in a spell. Try to stay away from banishing spells and instead go for positive spells designed to envision what you want.

This goes for standard religions as well. People who believe in their God, may have #1, Intent and Desire, and possibly #3 as well, Emotional Energy, but they're blowing it in they're prayers by praying for their God to do away with disease or whatever. Never pray to God asking to cure someone of a specific disease, because you are just asking for more of that disease by visualizing it. This is especially true if you are thinking of the person laying in a hospital bed looking all sickly. That's visualization!

And it's the wrong visualization, because that's not what you want!

If you're going to pray for someone to be healthy then do just that. Ask God to make them healthy and believe that is will be done. Visualize the person that you are praying for as being up and about doing positive energetic things. Visualize them as being healthy already.

3. Emotional Energy

This is the energy that witches raise in a circle and cast out into the universe. All our emotions are automatically cast out in to the universe. A circle is not really required. Some believe that the circle magnifies the energy.

Performing a specific ritual to raise the energy can indeed contribute to magnifying it. In fact, becoming emotional over it is important. It is this emotional energy that is being case out into the universe. Don't just pretend to be raising energy, feel it it's the energy of emotion! Become emotionally passionate about what you are asking for. That's what the energy is, it's emotional energy and we have the ability to psyche ourselves up emotionally. That's the whole idea behind raising energy in a witch's circle.

Of course, no circle is truly necessary. People do magic all the time who aren't witches and don't practice witchcraft. They do magic because they have fulfilled these three steps of Spellcraft.

Even an emotional Christian can fulfill these three steps by simply having true Intent and Desire, Correct Prayer and Visualization, and simply be Emotional about it. When they do these three things, they get a 'miracle', because they have indeed cast a 'spell'. They have 'spelled' out to the universe what they wanted and they have satisfied all the criteria to have that spell answered.

~~~

Some people might say there is more to it. For example, "Gratitude" must be in there somewhere. Well, I would personally say that if all three of these steps are carried out with true sincerity, then gratitude is automatic. The very idea of taking this for granted denies the true desire, and true emotion that is required to make the spell work. Also, 'gratitude' doesn't necessarily rule out evil intent. Even an evil person may be very grateful to have their black magic fulfilled.

The idea is that whatever magic you perform, will also come back to you. So while it is possible to perform black magic, the person who performs it will suffer for his or her own manifestations.

In any case, the above is my interpretation of Penczak's message. It really is just the Law of Attraction, done methodically, and called, "Witchcraft". Or if a person prefers, it's a request to God that has been fulfilled. None the less this is how it is done. And if anything is missing from the above three steps the magick (or prayer) may not come to pass.

I would say that step number 2 is the place where the greatest errors can occur. And the most common error is the one I just illustrated using Scott Cunningham as an example. Beware of making banishing spells!

Try to stick with visualizing what you want to invoke and using verbal incantations that support that visualization. Steer clear of chants and visualizations of things that you want to get rid of.

That would be my advice, but I remind everyone that I'm not truly a witch yet. laugh

But this is my understanding of the principles of magick that I have just read from Penczak's second Temple book.



Abracadabra's photo
Sat 12/06/08 06:15 PM

Krimsa's photo
Sat 12/06/08 06:16 PM
No I had not heard of either of those women Abra so thanks for pointing it out. Here I am always the one attacking the Christians on forum with my seemingly bombastic feminist agenda and I dont even know about a lot of these famous women in history. Probably because they arent really mentioned unless you go looking for them. Unfortunately a lot of women's history is that way. It just gets covered up by layer after layer of famous men. Im not saying men like Albert Einstein were not brilliant and deserving of their notoriety, but its always at the expense of the females unfortunately.

Einstein's first wife, Mileva Maric Einstein was supposedly quite brilliant also and shared his interest in science. I have read a little about her but mainly her notoriety is just based off him.

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 12/06/08 06:29 PM

No I had not heard of either of those women Abra so thanks for pointing it out. Here I am always the one attacking the Christians on forum with my seemingly bombastic feminist agenda and I dont even know about a lot of these famous women in history.


I learned about a lot of women in my studies of science and physics who never got the recognition they deserved.

I also studied chemistry and biology back when I was thinking about becoming a VMD, and there were even many MORE women in the fields of biology and chemistry who went unsung in the public eye.

This is one of those things that I would do if I had my life to live over again.

I'd keep better RECORDS of what I had learned that was REALLY important!

Like if I had started a scrapbook devoted to nothing other than unsung heroic and brilliant women in science and mathematics, that scrapbook would be in several VOLUMES by now, I'm sure!

There must be books written on this very topic. I'm sure there are.

There were also a lot of unsung male scientists who deserved far more credit than they actually got. But then again, I supposed we need to keep the 'heroes' down to a managable size. :wink:

Albert Einstein overshadowed a lot of brilliant people who should have gotten more recognition than they did.

The media makes a star out of someone and then follows him around like little groupies.

Although Einstein did overturn classical physics. But still, it was ripe to be overturned. He just caught the public eye first. If Einstein hadn't lived someone else would have discovered relativity. It was ripe to be discovered.

Einstein was just in the right place at the right time.



Krimsa's photo
Sat 12/06/08 06:40 PM
Edited by Krimsa on Sat 12/06/08 06:41 PM
Yeah I think that's true about Einstein. You aren't the first physicist Ive heard make that claim about him. Also, he was kind of "quirky" and that added to his mystique. He almost became the classic mad scientist what with that disheveled hair and the way he dressed and I guess it got worse and worse the older he was. laugh He might have been manic or a little off kilter. I've often suspected that about him.

Oh yeah you could easily find books now about famous women in science and biology and all of the sciences Im sure now, but not back then. Like you mentioned, they could not even attend school and essentially they were viewed as almost being childlike. Oh dont worry your pretty little head and get busy being a home maker and pumping out 10 kids before you are 40. Those women had it rough but they were true pioneers and had guts.

Krimsa's photo
Sat 12/06/08 07:21 PM
Edited by Krimsa on Sat 12/06/08 07:22 PM
Kind of interesting stuff When I was down in New Orleans, i actually bought some Gris Gris bags just for fun. I still have them here. Purple velvet baggies. happy

Walter Gibson, in Witchcraft (1973), states that fetish denotes any object possessed by a holy spirit, while juju more specifically meant a charm, something witch doctors needed to make their medicine work either for good or ill. Biren Bonnerjea whose Dictionary of Superstitions and Mythology appeared in 1927 defines juju as the West African name for a fetish, also called grigri.

The gris-gris became traditional in New Orleans, the American headquarters for voodoo, where they were use for various things such as attracting money and love, stopping gossip, protecting the home, maintaining good health and achieving innumerable other ends. At one time, every police officer was known to carry a gris-gris for protection. A gris-gris is ritually made at an altar containing the four elements of earth (salt), air (incense), water and fire (a candle flame). The number of ingredients (placed in the gris-gris) is always one, three,. five, seven, nine or thirteen. Ingredients are never an even number or more than thirteen. Stones and colored objects are chosen for their occult and astrological meanings corresponding to the purpose for which the gris-gris is to be used.

Legends concerning the famous New Orleans Voodoo Queen Marie Laveau claim her gris-gris contained bits of bone, colored stones, graveyard dust (also called goofer dust), salt, and red pepper. Other more elaborate gris-gris were made of bird nests and horse hair weavings.

A red-flannel bag holding a lodestone or magnet was a gambler's favorite gris-gris, which was suppose to absolutely guarantee good luck. Another favorite gris-gris of gamblers was made of chamois, a piece of red flannel, a shark's tooth, pine-tree sap, and dove's blood. The dove's blood and sap were mixed together, and this mixture was used to write the amount that the gambler wished to win on the chamois, which was wrapped in the red flannel with the shark's tooth between the two layers, all of which was sewn together with cat's hair. This charm was supposedly worn in the left shoe to bring good and often uncomfortable luck.

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 12/06/08 07:23 PM

Oh yeah you could easily find books now about famous women in science and biology and all of the sciences Im sure now, but not back then. Like you mentioned, they could not even attend school and essentially they were viewed as almost being childlike. Oh dont worry your pretty little head and get busy being a home maker and pumping out 10 kids before you are 40. Those women had it rough but they were true pioneers and had guts.


I often wonder what all those male chauvinistic pigs are going to do when they die and discover that God is actually a woman. laugh

Christians are actually offended when people suggest that God might be a She.

Even the female Christians which totally blows my mind. They have seriously been brainwashed to accept their secondary role in creation. It's utterly absurd.

I've often pointed out that it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for Adam to have asked God for a helpmate.

Help with what?

What was he planning on doing that he needed help with? Masturbate?

I mean seriously?

What would Adam have needed help with? He couldn't do anything worthwhile.

Now, if God had created Eve first and she was pumping out divine babies like the Virgin Mary then it makes perfect sense for Eve to have appealed to God for a helpmate.

I could hear her now.

"Hey God! What's up with making me pump out babies and tend to the crops too? Can't I get some help around here?"

Then God would have could have taken a pimple off Eve's butt and made Adam.

Hey, DNA is DNA right? laugh

I figure that's probably the way it actually happened.

When all these male chauvinist pigs get to heaven they'll discover that God is a woman, and all things return from whence they came. laugh

Thus they will return to being a pimple on Eve's butt. drinks


Ruth34611's photo
Sat 12/06/08 07:34 PM
A&E Ancient Mysteries: Witches. Best documentary I've seen on the history of witches.

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 12/06/08 07:46 PM

A&E Ancient Mysteries: Witches. Best documentary I've seen on the history of witches.


I wrote it down.

It's on my list to rent. :wink:

Ruth34611's photo
Sat 12/06/08 07:55 PM


A&E Ancient Mysteries: Witches. Best documentary I've seen on the history of witches.


I wrote it down.

It's on my list to rent. :wink:


You won't be disappointed. Although some of it is upsetting.

Ruth34611's photo
Sat 12/06/08 08:01 PM
After watching the A&E documentary and the other one on just Salem, I would much prefer to have been tried and hung as a witch in Salem than tortured and burned during the inquisition. That was really horrible.

Abracadabra's photo
Sat 12/06/08 08:01 PM

You won't be disappointed. Although some of it is upsetting.


History is upsetting. ohwell

Current events are upsetting. ohwell

And the people who keep proselytizing that negative religious crap are upsetting. ohwell

When are they ever going to learn? ohwell

Ruth34611's photo
Sat 12/06/08 08:06 PM
I make gris gris bags aka mojo hands. I really like them and think they work well. I made one for a friend of mine when he needed help during a major presentation and he swears by the thing. It's the only spell work I ever did for someone else that worked.

You can get all the traditional supplies for them at www.luckymojo.com

That's the only place I would guarantee you are getting the real stuff.

Ruth34611's photo
Sat 12/06/08 08:07 PM


You won't be disappointed. Although some of it is upsetting.


History is upsetting. ohwell

Current events are upsetting. ohwell

And the people who keep proselytizing that negative religious crap are upsetting. ohwell

When are they ever going to learn? ohwell


I don't know. But, I'm just glad it is illegal to kill us now. Or torture us. scared

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