Ok which hail Darwin disciple did this?

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=4226712&cl=10920352&src=news

A display is one thing. An attack is quite another, IMO.

I can't agree with a display like that, it is clearly an attack.

Why can't people not just leave well enough alone

The Human Rights Act

Article 9: Freedom of conscience

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

(2) Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.


Article 10: Freedom of Expression

(1) Everyone has the right of freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without inference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

(2) The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/946400.stm

What that man was stating about Christmas being an "adopted" holiday that was originally Pagan and symbolic of the Winter Solstice is absolute fact.

The Atheists' exhibit has every right to be there and to refuse its presence would be an infringement on their first amendment right to free speech. Its not hurting anyone by being there. You can choose not to look at it. Or you can choose to look at it and ignore the nativity.

They weren't asking for the nativity scene to be taken down and they weren't asking for people to quit celebrating Christmas. They just wanted to add their two cents. I don't see that harming anyone.

personally i would have to agree.

I see it as the Athiest was being honest about his belief and that at that time of year the Pagans celebrated the rebirth of the sun. The days getting longer. They really had to have a good clock back then to realise a day got a minute longer and the day before was equal night and day.

I wonder how many of us could figure that out on our own?

The chr-stmas scene i do not like at all. For several reason.

The main one is it is a known lie to our children.

We hear that every child should have those memories.

Then he realises no santa claus. Because at least 90% of the people include Santa Claus and the opening of gifts more than the savior.

Then what do we teach our children at a very young age?


It is ok to lie to someone who is innocent and believes everything you say.

The seed of lying has been planted and watered for many years.

most people with any bible training at all know that it is a pagan Holiday but they do it anyway.

Then out of the same mouth they will tell someone who keeps the feasts of Yahweh which only focuses on learning about Yahshua. All people man,woman and child.

I hear all the time that I am trying to earn my salvation and I need to quit doing them old laws.

Doing Yahweh's commands are bad and doing pagan festivals are good.

Sounds upside down to me.


Blessings...Miles

Miles said:



I understand due to your own perosnal beliefs you feel that it is wrong to partake in the Pagan festival as it stands. However, its not going anywhere. The celebration revolved around the re-birth of the sun god as far back as ancient Babylon and with his maturity, the days growing longer and longer.

Its a pretty story, based in nature and certainly not hurting anyone. Its about the god coming back to life as the Earth is coming back to life after the long, dark winter.

Its doesnt take away from your beliefs nessassarily.

If you want to "commandeer" that festival and create "Christmas" out of it, whats the harm really? The damage has been done. You can lay that level on top or just add it on.

.

I'm not sure that there should be any displays whatsoever. As far as I could tell, there were only two viewpoints represented. But how many religious beliefs are there? Trying to give them all "equal time" is effectively impossible. So by allowing any displays of a religions nature at all, there is, in fact, support of one religion over another.

I would agree and they mentioned that briefly in the editorial. If you notice they had a nativity and a menorah on display. If they wanted to be truly fair, they should have every single religion represented. There should be so much crap blocking the entrance way, it will be a fire hazard and then when the civil offices go up in flames because of all the Christmas lights, hundreds of people will be trampled and we can sue the city for not being in compliance and creating such an unsafe environment.

The main reason that sign is displayed is because Olympia is a left wing,liberal stronghold.I should know I live 30 miles from Olympia.Like the news story said the only reason the nativity scene is displayed is because of the threat of lawsuit.I'm sure if the Liberals of Washington had their way it would just be that sign.The state has also taken the word "Christmas" off the school calendars as they say it may offend someone.

In other Olympia news....Washington state Liberal congressman Jim Mcdermott recently shipped his Christmas decorated for the White house Christmas tree.It consisted of a 9" glass ball with the face of Jim Mcdermott on it and had his speech explaining why George bush should be impeached.

The pagan festivals are just that Pagan.

people who believe in the Bible should know thier is no mixing scripture with anything else in worship.

My comment is not to anyone but those who claim to believe.

I have studied pagan beliefs just for knowlege of them.

Actually Stonehedge is one of my favorite places on earth.

It just sparks my interest.. I find it more of a mystery than any mayan temple.

These people were peaceful and from what i know did not do the sacrafices that the Mayans did.

Then the city they found of them living communially under a grass mound where every dwelling was connected together.


Thier are alot of things Pagans did i am interested in learning why.

Shalom...Miles

Its hard to know with the Mayans. I believe that there was human sacrifice taking place but I also get the impression that the Spanish might have overstated it a bit to attempt to give the impression that the Indians were these horrible, primitive beasts tearing out bleeding hearts and offering it to the sun.

Sure it might have happened.

The Christians practiced blood sacrifice also of animals. So did the Pagans. Shrug.

I understand all that and by all means if the Pagans want to display something I don't have any problem with it.Christmas is a very special time of year for the majority of America.I just think that news story is sad.It really takes away the joy of the holiday.People who see that display are going to remember that sign the most.I just think it's depressing.Christimas isn't even here and I am allready depressed.I know we will be hearing more stories like this until there is no more lights,no more trees,no more nativity displays,and no more Christmas.

Although Aesthiest claim they are only displaying their rights,I really feel like this is going to far.That sign sounds insulting and it's depressing.Even if I wasn't a Christian I would be scratching my head and wondering if this was a good idea.I am not Jewish but I don't have any problem with their displays.Everyone has a right to believe what they want.But to me this is similar to a anti war protestor at a funeral.The two should not be so close together.

I honestly dont even think the Pagan community would be all that interested in pursuing that matter or laying claim to any sort of representation. I have not heard about it. Im not saying its never happened. Generally they try to keep a low profile to avoid being beaten or assaulted or having their families threatened or being accused of killing babies or worshiping Satan.

Besides, Pagans celebrate Yule. All the little pretty decorations that the Christians lay claim to are derived from the original feast The only thing you folks added was the Jesus character that Im aware of. Well him and Santa. The Pagans also gave gifts. Remember, it was the birth of the sun God. It was a raucous festival.

My problem with their sign is that it doesn't celebrate what they believe in. Instead, they are attacking others.

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

--------------------------

the part everyone forges about

size=20]

no law ...........prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Do you think that Liberals aren't Christians?

Do you mean like when in the 50's religious folks couldn't leave well enough alone but to advocate to put in god we trust on money? Or the commandments in court houses? Or restrict the sale of alcohol on Sundays before a certain time (cough cough when church let out)

I seriously don't care if they have a nativity scene at federal buildings as long as every religion gets its little piece . . but I wonder if there would be any room to do official business . . . hmm.

There are people that get offended over anything for whatever reason . . . at least I am not one of them. Sigh . . .




I am sorry it depresses you that people hold different beliefs about god, or none at all and want that represented along side others beliefs.


I am curious specifically what verbiage did you take as an attack?

The President of the foundation that put up the sign said that it was an attack on religion.

The part of the sign that I felt was an attack was "Religion is but myth and superstition to harden hearts and enslave minds.