I agree, take them all down. But if you have one up you have to allow others. I predict that eventually they will all be taken down. That is, until the New World Order is in complete power and we are forced to worship the Draconian Queen and her messiah.

ya, the nerve of some people to open there mouths! I mean what is the world comming to when you can get on the net and say anything you want. I think we should all just not talk at all anymore. If you get mad at some one for what they are sayin ya just hang em on a couple of pieces of wood naked until they die. yea. thats it, kill any one who says anything at all. NOTY

And quite the attack it was. One cardboard sign.
If they allow one, they should display all during the appropriate season, if requested by the faction.
I am waiting for the annual boycott of Target Stores because they don't allow the Salvation Army bell ringers to solicit funds in front of the store.

(Some times the Catholics get mad if they put Baby Jesus in the manger before Christmas day, and the Syrians and Persians get crabby if there are no Wise Men included.)

The President of the foundation that put up the sign said that it was an attack on religion.

and at least he is honest about it

as the sign is honest about cristianity converting a pagan holiday to help in the conversion of pagans

Well, if it is an attack, it is not appropriate, IMO.

Honestly Winx, do you feel threatened by this
"attack" If you were walking by, and saw the sign, would you personally feel offended, or that he wanted to take away your religion? He said it was an attack they way people here say, 'Iam I nice guy'

No, of course I don't feel threatened by it.

I do feel it's wrong to attack religion right next to a nativity scene.

If it was a celebration of paganism, it would be different to me.

I don't realy see the problem with it.

A good point about the Paganism, however Atheists are against Pagan religion too, and since there was a Menorrha there too,the Christians aren't being singled out.
The point is if one religon gets to put up a display, the other religon gets to put one up too. Its on Gov. property, so there shouldn't be any public display actually.

Oooh...Michiganman, I said the wrong thing.

I meant to say Atheist.

I feel that it's fine for the nativity scene and the Menorrha. I feel it's fine for the atheists to put something up too. I feel it's fine if Muslims put something up.

I just don't feel it's right that they put up a sign putting down religions next to religious displays like that. I feel that it could have been done more appropriately.

No one said the Atheists were polite.
As I recall there was a sign like this at the huge display in Denver at the City and County building, I have pics of it.

There is a big difference between displaying something that shows your beliefs and displaying something that attacks the beliefs of others. Freedom of speech has been taken way to far, when it's ok for anyone to attack someone else because of their beliefs. If that was something racial, it would have been yanked down, if it ever made it up. What is the difference?

I think there is some points we are missing.First it is Christmas.It is a Christian holiday celebrating Jesus birth.I realize it may have been started by Pagans or who ever but Christmas is what is is today and is what it was back in 1776 when America became a country.

This is what the sign read....

At this season of winter solstice may reason prevail....

"There are no Gods,no devils,no angels,no heaven or hell,This is our only natural world,Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

Sounds pretty negative to me.Even the person who put up the sign said "it is not a religious display it's a attack on religion".

For all those whining and crying about separation of church and state,Christmas is a federally recognized holiday as shown below.

Federal law (5 U.S.C. 6103) establishes the following public holidays for Federal employees. Please note that most Federal employees work on a Monday through Friday schedule. For these employees, when a holiday falls on a nonworkday -- Saturday or Sunday -- the holiday usually is observed on Monday (if the holiday falls on Sunday) or Friday (if the holiday falls on Saturday).

Tuesday, January 1 New Year’s Day
Monday, January 21 Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Monday, February 18* Washington’s Birthday
Monday, May 26 Memorial Day
Friday, July 4 Independence Day
Monday, September 1 Labor Day
Monday, October 13 Columbus Day
Tuesday, November 11 Veterans Day
Thursday, November 27 Thanksgiving Day
Thursday, December 25 Christmas Day

Pagans do not have a federally recognized holiday and neither do the Aeithest.As far as I know they don't have any type of holidays.I strongly agree that the person who posted this sign is not trying to celebrate any kind of non religions holiday but instead is protesting and trying to make a mockery of this Christmas display.

For those who would like to do some research of separation of church and state I urge you to read "The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the US" (Benjamin Franklin Morris, 1864), which totally debunks the fraudulent "Separation of Church and State" so-called argument.

If this was a Muslim display there is no way there would be a sign like that next to it.

P.S.

Michiganman I noticed you have a picture of Denvers civic center.In the tune of this discussion a few years ago it used to read "Merry Christmas" in big letters on the front of the building.Of course Aeithest complained about it and it now reads "Happy holidays".

Thomas at least you are willing to accept this bit of historical fact. Many Christians are simply not and insist the holiday has ALWAYS been associated with the birth of Christ. This is simply "poppy ****" for lack of a better word.

I don't think the Pagan community is demanding that you relent and give back the Winter Solstice. The truth of the matter is that the Pagans were celebrating it in much the same fashion as the Christians are today. Trees being drug inside, decorations, parties, gift giving amongst friends and family and big, lavish feasts.

The Christians simply added on the Jesus and Santa concept because Santa is based on Saint Nicolas.

Pagans celebrate Yule or the Winter Solstice today. There is no real conflict there unless you want to create one. Yule for Pagans is simply the time of the year that the Goddess gives birth to the God and as he grows to maturity. the days become longer.

The Pagans are far from "godless". They have many Gods and Goddesses observed over the course of many celebrations and festivals.

I think your beef is with the Atheists right now. The problem is that you can not act upon their right to Free Speech under the First Amendment. Its not fair to pick and choose which religious sect will have recognition because it's prominently displayed out in front of a civic office, you are essentially giving precedence to that Deity.



Whats wrong with that exactly? Ive never understood the issue with going from "Merry Christmas" which would seem to indicate that Christmas and Christianity is the sole domain of this festive time of year and "Happy Holidays" which is an ALL inclusive phrase. Just get over it. .

Krisma I don't have a problem with people celebrating what ever they want.How many people even know about Pagans or Yule?I don't think we need to debate what Christmas means to people regardless of what we believe in.For the majority of people it is simply "Jesus's birthday".I understand all the things we can go back in history and debate but the we are talking about current events that are important.The reality is that Christmas is a Christian holiday.

I will be honest...I don't think a nativity display should be in government buildings for the simple fact that our government is full of corruption.I would much rather see it in front of a church where it belongs.

We never agree on anything but lately I have to question weather you and others actually care about Christians as just ordinary people.Don't you realize that it hurts us when things like this happen?Don't you care that people are sadden and depressed when they are told that their own government approves of a sign attacking our religion?What about our rights?What about our persuit of happiness.Can't Christians have a simple display with out the whole country screaming political correctness?


You say I have a beef with Atheists right now.Of course I do.It's hard for you to understand because you are not a Christian.When you are a Christian you are much more aware of the attacks of the anti-Christian movement.I hate to admit it but they are winning the war.In Canada they can not preach anti-gay sermons.If they do they can get fined or arrested.Prayer in schools(even after school)has been banned.Teaching intelligent design has been banned and only Darwins teaching is allowed.The list goes on and on and it only gets worse and worse as years go by.

It would appear that you do in fact have a problem with the Atheists just trying to allow their voice to be heard with a simple, innocuous display, yet you have absolutely no problem with bombastic and prominently displayed nativity scenes being erected? There are over 700,000 known Wiccan in the US today making it the 5th largest organized religion in this country to date. They celebrate Yule and are well aware of what it is.There is no historical debate unless you simply want to re-write history (which we know some Christians are very good at). No one ever said that "Christmas" was not a Christian designated holiday, its Yule that isnt.



I think the nativity has no place out in front of court houses and other civic buildings because it implies that the people who work in those offices are all Christians and will show favoritism towards that particular group of Americans. I cant imagine you would feel very good as a Buddhist person being drug into a court house in which you are about to stand trial for a crime when there is a baby Jesus sitting out there on the front lawn. It might make you feel somewhat apprehensive about the outcome of your trial because your personal religious views are divergent from that of the judge and potentially the jury and everyone else that works in that public office that is supposed to be able to render just and sound verdicts for the ENTIRE community regardless of race, creed, or religious persuasion.

I agree.

I am in no way religious, but my moral values do simply say no to the display. There are other ways to state your opinion without compromising others.

I feel they should just take it all down because there is no way around offending someone otherwise or feeling left out or like they have no representation in the religious hodge podge. Why are they even putting all that in front of civic offices? Its just asking for trouble. Why cant they just stick with wreaths and lights?