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Unless you have brain damage, you use 100% of your brain. 10% is used for thought, the rest is the wiring and control portions of the brain. But beside that point, few Christians oppose science. Fine, fine...point taken...but you also get mine. We aren't as highly evolved intellectually as we'd like to think...and even if we were...God is still infinite and I'm doubtful we can claim the same. You are preaching to the choir. |
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It is my prayer, that all find peace, love and contentment and the answers they seek
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DOH!! I figure everyone has a right to believe whatever they want without being challenged by others "Quiet"...does that apply to rapists pedophiles serial killers that is what is meant by if one does not want their beliefs challenged then keep them to yourself and not inflict those beliefs upon others but once you decide to make your beliefs public is why it's everyones duty to challenge those beliefs those aren't beliefs they are actions and yeah if a person wants to publicly display those beliefs then it ispresented as a kind of a challenge to the world. thats why I don't differentiate between crazed fundamentalists and crazed atheists. It's more of an intolerance than it is a belief "Quiet" a belief stays a belief until you use your will and turn it into an action ..which means do you believe that pedophiles have a right to spread their beliefs to anyone including children Hilter's religious beliefs also went unchallenged |
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Religion as a whole is just like minded people getting together to be sympathetic in how they interpret their faith. What's so bad about that?
If that's all it was it wouldn't be a problem at all. But that's not what Christianity, Islam, and Judaism have become. I speak to these three religions for two reaons. One: Because they truly all all the SAME RELIGION fallen into parts. Two: Because these are the religions that are threating and currently destroying world peace! You talk about it like it's just passive meek people getting to getogether in little private churchs just sharing their spiritaulity. Those people don't truly matter. I don't even know why those people bother calling themselves "Christians". They should just say that they believe some things in teh Bible particualr with respect to Jesus and other than that they should denounce the organized religion called "Christianity" Why? Because when the support it they are giving their support to world violence. Even members of the United Nations have shown great concerned over the religious proselyting that is going on in the world. It is causing political unrest and violence. The Muslins and Christians truly are preparing for an all-out proselyting war to. The Christians have the upper hand because they have realized that technology is on their side. They are lauching MASSIVE proselytizing campagnes on the Internet and on things like Youtube, and Godtube. The Muslim countries are fully aware of this proselytizing attack. They realize that they are caught off guard technologically. And therefore they are DESPERATE! They know that they can't compete on the same technological level with Chrsitianity so they are prepared to take ANY MEASURES to defend their culture. It's war honey. This isn't about the little old ladies who are playing bingo in the basements of their quaint little churches. We're talking about religious INTOLERANCE being carried out on a gloabal scale in the name of JESUS! However, those innocent little ladies who are playing bingo in their church basements are actually contributing to the religious monster when they check the little checkbox marked "Christian". They are giving their support to the demon of oganized religion. It's not the private pratitioners who are the problem. It's the dragon of organize religion that is the problem. We need to create a 'Jesus Followers' religion who denounce the Old Testament and the orginal Christianity. That's what most Jesus Freaks do anyway. But they keep calling themsleves "Christians" |
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DOH!! I figure everyone has a right to believe whatever they want without being challenged by others "Quiet"...does that apply to rapists pedophiles serial killers that is what is meant by if one does not want their beliefs challenged then keep them to yourself and not inflict those beliefs upon others but once you decide to make your beliefs public is why it's everyones duty to challenge those beliefs those aren't beliefs they are actions and yeah if a person wants to publicly display those beliefs then it ispresented as a kind of a challenge to the world. thats why I don't differentiate between crazed fundamentalists and crazed atheists. It's more of an intolerance than it is a belief "Quiet" a belief stays a belief until you use your will and turn it into an action ..which means do you believe that pedophiles have a right to spread their beliefs to anyone including children Hilter's religious beliefs also went unchallenged hmmm the point of this thread seems to be the intolerance of beliefs. so that seems right on topic I'm not responsible for other peoples belief systems. Only my own. If there beliefs translate into harmful action then that is a seperate thing. Then they have to be accoutable and liable for their action |
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DOH!! I figure everyone has a right to believe whatever they want without being challenged by others "Quiet"...does that apply to rapists pedophiles serial killers that is what is meant by if one does not want their beliefs challenged then keep them to yourself and not inflict those beliefs upon others but once you decide to make your beliefs public is why it's everyones duty to challenge those beliefs those aren't beliefs they are actions and yeah if a person wants to publicly display those beliefs then it ispresented as a kind of a challenge to the world. thats why I don't differentiate between crazed fundamentalists and crazed atheists. It's more of an intolerance than it is a belief "Quiet" a belief stays a belief until you use your will and turn it into an action ..which means do you believe that pedophiles have a right to spread their beliefs to anyone including children Hilter's religious beliefs also went unchallenged hmmm the point of this thread seems to be the intolerance of beliefs. so that seems right on topic I'm not responsible for other peoples belief systems. Only my own. If there beliefs translate into harmful action then that is a seperate thing. Then they have to be accoutable and liable for their action so do one just sit around and wait for the belief to become harmful or perhaps challenge it to give other insight on how the belief could possibly cause harm |
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Edited by
quiet_2008
on
Tue 11/25/08 12:13 PM
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one can do what ever one wants
I'm talking about me. That is after all the only factor I have control of and I won't do anything (hence my choice not to participate in the "God is awesome/God is evil" argument and once they cross the line into harmful behavior THEN I'm all for ripping their heads off |
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gots to run some errands
I'll come back later and reply evryone have a great day and remember Shiva loves you |
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You talk about it like it's just passive meek people getting to getogether in little private churchs just sharing their spiritaulity.
Those people don't truly matter. I don't even know why those people bother calling themselves "Christians". They should just say that they believe some things in teh Bible particualr with respect to Jesus and other than that they should denounce the organized religion called "Christianity" The organized religion called "Christianity"? There is no organized religion called Christianity. You have Catholics, that's a religion, Protestants, that's a religion, Lutherans, Latter Day Saints, the Church of Christ - all religions. As you have correctly stated, fractured, and they have all decided to believe in different ways. I haven't talked about little old ladies playing bingo in basements, that's a deflection. Christianity as a whole is not this massive war machine as it sounds like you're making it out to be. If I were to read your posts and had no other information I'm sure it would sound like Christians are raising tanks and nuclear weapons to eradicate Islam. Who is in charge of this religious march? How is it being organized? Why have I not heard of the new Crusade? America was put together with the idea of freedoms. To be able to say what you want, to practice your faith as you see fit, and many other things. Jefferson decided that the only real way to do that however is if you took religion out of government. England had many turnovers throughout the years of changing religions, and the people suffered for it. When I see things like a coalition of Christians, namely Catholics and LDS who banded together to push forward Proposition 8 in California - I was riled up. I was very unfriendly and even mean to those I discovered were in agreement blindly with their church leaders. Again, people who don't care to listen. My main point was that when a church pushes a political agenda they're no longer a religious institution and their tax exempt status should be revoked, because they cross the line into a special interest group. If they don't want legislation interfering with their doctrines they need to stay out of legislation. Many people are still pissed off about it and I really do think that the government should have stepped in to stop it, or at least started making them pay taxes on the hundreds of millions that they collect every year. There are many small pushes akin to that which rightly anger me. Quite honestly Abracadabra, it doesn't matter what I say, you're not in the mind-frame to see anyone else's point but your own. I think you are a very intelligent man and have a lot going for you, but I concede, this is going no where. I hope the best for you in your endeavors. I don't like the horrors done in the name of any God but religion as a whole I personally don't see as evil and destructive. I've known too many people that it's done good for. I understand you disagree with that point and that's okay. I have had my own struggles with religion and the fanaticism. I was only wishing to provide a different view. Have a good day! Cheers! |
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Does debating make people accountable? The kind of debate that points endlessly to the flaws in each counter-part's statements leads to endless circles of how the other's points are invalid. How can anyone really hear the other's point if they are sitting, perched, waiting for areas of weakness in speech to jump at? So, if no one really hears anyone else's point, what's the use of debate? Where do we go when we reach an impasse? "Spendidlife" ..yes debating does make some people "see the light" ..and debating tends to get people to think beyond the belief once I started debating the bible as being absolute truth is when the religious started debating that it was not truth only metaphoric which means some have stopped pushing the belief as truth Won't there always be those who will see it and preach it as absolute truth and even become violently opposed to any other proposed possibilities? Its understandable that people who have been raised on fervent beliefs could almost feel like their skin is being separated from their body when told to consider the possibility that their beliefs could be "wrong". Presenting it as such tends to shut people down. I'm most interested in open communication between ALL (especially those seemingly closed to any other ideas/beliefs than their own). Doesn't matter which "side" they’re on. There must be a way to open minds to multiple and (with hope) infinite possibility. |
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When I see things like a coalition of Christians, namely Catholics and LDS who banded together to push forward Proposition 8 in California - I was riled up. I was very unfriendly and even mean to those I discovered were in agreement blindly with their church leaders. Again, people who don't care to listen. My main point was that when a church pushes a political agenda they're no longer a religious institution and their tax exempt status should be revoked, because they cross the line into a special interest group. If they don't want legislation interfering with their doctrines they need to stay out of legislation. Many people are still pissed off about it and I really do think that the government should have stepped in to stop it, or at least started making them pay taxes on the hundreds of millions that they collect every year. There are many small pushes akin to that which rightly anger me. It's illegal to limit the freedom of speech. The speech limits put on the right of churches and pastors to speak their mind violates the spirit, if not the letter of the law. Any religion / church should be able to support a cause that coincides with their beliefs, to prevent or punish them for doing so is a violation of the first amendment. |
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Every argument has two things that need to be addressed.
1.)The issue. 2.)The solution. In this case you approach the issue, for me - cutting remarks and defamatory comments. Even seen in this thread, people kicked out the original topic and attacked each other personally. Unlike science, there are no absolutes when it comes to religion, and the unwillingness to listen is a major problem. In fact, the "you're wrong I'm right" syndrome is poisonous. The solution - knock out the idea that you're absolutely 100% right. (You're in this case is a generalization, targeted even at myself.) Even at 90% right means you're willing to even just consider what another is saying. If in the end you still think you're right, the next best solution is to find a way to cope with the idea that someone else disagrees with you, without turning it into something personal. I even derailed this from the original line of thinking.  It's not about who is right or who is wrong, there are plenty of other threads discussing that already, it was meant as a reminder to be open and at least more tactful in how one deals with a disagreement. My bad! I apologize for adding to things getting off track.
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Every single member of their congregation has the right to vote as they see fit, which in a way is their "voice" or freedom of speech. Those churches can even tell their congregation how they want them to vote. I don't even have an issue with that.
I do however have an issue when more than $20 million is raised to push at this agenda. It's no longer about the freedom of speech of individuals, but a large organization, even faith based impacting legislation. By definition: spe·cial-in·ter·est group (plural spe·cial-in·ter·est groups) or spe·cial in·ter·est (plural spe·cial in·ter·ests) noun Definition: group trying to influence government policy: a group seeking to influence government policy in favor of an interest or issue (source: http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861711410/special-interest_group.html) is exactly what they've become. I'll be happy if their tax exempt status is revoked or if they stay out of legislation. |
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When I see things like a coalition of Christians, namely Catholics and LDS who banded together to push forward Proposition 8 in California - I was riled up. I was very unfriendly and even mean to those I discovered were in agreement blindly with their church leaders. Again, people who don't care to listen. My main point was that when a church pushes a political agenda they're no longer a religious institution and their tax exempt status should be revoked, because they cross the line into a special interest group. If they don't want legislation interfering with their doctrines they need to stay out of legislation. Many people are still pissed off about it and I really do think that the government should have stepped in to stop it, or at least started making them pay taxes on the hundreds of millions that they collect every year. There are many small pushes akin to that which rightly anger me. It's illegal to limit the freedom of speech. The speech limits put on the right of churches and pastors to speak their mind violates the spirit, if not the letter of the law. Any religion / church should be able to support a cause that coincides with their beliefs, to prevent or punish them for doing so is a violation of the first amendment. as for taking away their tax exempt status, no need to do that but if they do no matter Any Church of God, blessed by God will get by just fine without it. They do not even have to ask for money. Would not even have to pass a plate. The ones who attend will support it from their hearts without a need to ask or beg |
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one can do what ever one wants I'm talking about me. That is after all the only factor I have control of and I won't do anything (hence my choice not to participate in the "God is awesome/God is evil" argument and once they cross the line into harmful behavior THEN I'm all for ripping their heads off "Quiet".. so if you agree that one can do what one wants to do or believe what one wants to believe then is it ok if it has the potential to effect you in a harmful way ..so are you going to sit back and be "Quiet" and let it happen ...or are you going to challenge |
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Sharpshooter
 - eloquent.
Stay cool. :) |
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There must be a way to open minds to multiple and (with hope) infinite possibility. "Spendidlife".... isn't that already taking place and why religions form splinter sects ...beliefs are infinite ...finding truth apparently isn't |
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betcha didn't know babies came from pumpkins huh? happy holidays everybody!! - 
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There must be a way to open minds to multiple and (with hope) infinite possibility. "Spendidlife".... isn't that already taking place and why religions form splinter sects ...beliefs are infinite ...finding truth apparently isn't If there were an infinite number of possibilities, wouldn’t that mean that ALL could be true? Doesn't it seem that the more we flail to "find" truth, the more it eludes us? What if "truth" sought us, but couldn't break through because we were so frantically seeking IT? |
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There must be a way to open minds to multiple and (with hope) infinite possibility. "Spendidlife".... isn't that already taking place and why religions form splinter sects ...beliefs are infinite ...finding truth apparently isn't If there were an infinite number of possibilities, wouldn’t that mean that ALL could be true? Doesn't it seem that the more we flail to "find" truth, the more it eludes us? What if "truth" sought us, but couldn't break through because we were so frantically seeking IT? "SpendidLife".... truth is yourself .. |
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