"Spidercmb" I never called you dense obtuse and obnoxious and you called me many other offensive names besides those..so are you sure you're not the angry one? ..

but anyway the hoildays comes once a year ...greasy food beer and watch a crappy sci-fi movie night comes every week ...

you just did -

You have to avoid the greasy food, but the beer is okay in moderation. And crappy sci-fi movies are good for you, even in excess.

"Quiet" if you totally stay out of religious thread then it must not be you that is posting here

DOH!!

I figure everyone has a right to believe whatever they want without being challenged by others

me, I believe in the baby Jesus and the resurrection and take comfort in the Grace that God gives me through that connection

but I also believe in the Pagan aspect of the deity. And I believe in Krishna, and I believe in Mohammed, and I believe in the Four Noble Truths

so there isn't much for me to argue about

what is this "isn't much" to argue about then?

either there is something you feel you may argue about or not? seeing there is millions of things to argue about on here what percentage of these in your opinion make up this "isn't much" catagory?

It's not really a one-on-one debate in a public forum. And that's the whole point of it.

I would never bother arguing with Spider in private emails. In fact I've had him blocked from emailing me for over a year now.

I couldn't care less what Spider believes.

I post the these PUBLIC FORUMS as a public service.

Yes, it's true.

We are living in an age where we have freedom of speech. And one of the reasons we have it is to speak out against ignorance.

I truly view Christianity as being an ignorant religion.

Many people may find that insulting, but that's just too bad. Christianity is based on the Bible, and the Bible overall teaches bigotry, hatred of non-believers, and religious intolerance.

Yes, it's true that Jesus preached against all of these thigns. But that's just my point. Jesus actually preached against the God of Abraham.

I'm convinced that Jesus was indeed cruficied for blaspheme. He became a martyr in the eyes of the masses because he actually spoke out AGAINST the current religious beliefs!

In the early going the followers of Jesus believed this.

It wasn't until several decades had passed before the authoritarians wrote their version of the gospels.

They used Jesus' martyr status to revive and reinforce their original bigoted intolerant doctines.

Then they enforced their new "gospels" via the sword and thread of death to anyone who dares to speak out against the "Word of God".

The gospels are a combination of the things that Jesus actually taught along with a whole lot of demagoguery to try to tie Jesus back into the original religion.

It clearly DOESN'T FIT.

But they managed to pull it off via threats of punishments and death to anyone who so much as questions its validity as a Holy Doctrine!

They even sold as a 'New Covenent". To try to justify some new changed.

The authoritarians at that time probably felt that it was a good idea to have the public stop taking the law into their own hands by stoning people to death. So they accepted these teachings of Jesus and worked up a slightly new dogma.

This actually gave them a chance to change some things whilst retaining others. They still kept the religion as intoleratant of other religions as they possibly could.

They accepted the idea that Jesus had of not judging other, but they also slyly made sure that this didn't include non-believers. They made sure that if you don't believe in Jesus then you are rejecting God and siding with the devil. That's one JUDGEMENT they weren't prepared to let go of!

Yes, Christians have been duped to be sure.

That's a fact.

Jesus might have made a great Buddha, but he makes a terrible Son of Abraham.

I post my thoughts for the general public. Not with the intention of pissing anyone off. People who get upset about what I have to say have their issues to deal with.

I'm reaching out to men and women of reason!

I would be all for some way to save Jesus from the Bible!

I'm actually in total agreement with the passive things that Jesus actually taught. But the Christian religion truly just uses Jesus as an excuse to support the bigotry, hatred and religious intolerance of the Old Testament.

And that's what makes the religion so dangerous on the social and political fronts. They use Jesus to support negative things!

That's just downright wrong.

everyone's body need a certain amount of fat content to remain healthy ..I use saturdays to eat the greasy fat I didn't eat during the week

also the beer make the crappy sci-fi movies easier to watch and I watch crappy sci-fi movies so I can debate with "JennieBean"

idealogically nah, there is nothing to argue over

my only beef is with the ones that feel that their way is the ONLY way. whether it's atheist or Fundamentalists or the really annoying ones, Anti-Christians calling themselves atheists

evryone gets to believe whatever they want without having to defend themselves

"Quiet"...does that apply to rapists pedophiles serial killers

that is what is meant by if one does not want their beliefs challenged then keep them to yourself and not inflict those beliefs upon others

but once you decide to make your beliefs public is why it's everyones duty to challenge those beliefs

those aren't beliefs they are actions

and yeah if a person wants to publicly display those beliefs then it ispresented as a kind of a challenge to the world. thats why I don't differentiate between crazed fundamentalists and crazed atheists. It's more of an intolerance than it is a belief

I like the way you worded that, wish everyone looked at it that way.

So many, many, many examples of exactly what I was talking about. Interesting...

Two sides, neither willing to listen.

Abracadabra said:

I feel truly sad that so many people seem to think that it's either Christianity or Atheism and there really aren't any other choices.
------------------
There are other choices. I was using those two because they're the extremes. Religion as a whole is just like minded people getting together to be sympathetic in how they interpret their faith. What's so bad about that? I'm sure your argument will be something to the effect of - but look at the horrible things they do when they're together! In which I say, why don't you ever look at all of the wonderful things they do when they're together?

Let's take your model of argument and place it on another topic, just so perhaps you might see how it has cracks. Your main argument is that Christians who don't follow the Bible verbatim are therefore creating their own religion and aren't necessarily Christian.

You're American. Do you agree with slavery? No!? What!? America was founded on the backs of slaves! You don't believe in slavery then you're not really American! You're creating your own type of nation! Wait - other Presidents came in and changed the way we do things? So did Christ in the New Testament. He came in and redefined how things were done and what laws to follow. Christians haven't always gone about things in the best of ways but neither has our government.

Compassion, tolerance, civility - these are things Christ taught and you don't need to be a Christian to follow them. They're really guidelines of humanity. He really knew what he was talking about. Again, I'm not Christian, but I think he was a neat guy.

Your other argument is that the Bible is complete garbage. Myths and fantasy garbled together by man. I'm not as fond of the Old Testament but there are some neat things in the New Testament. For me, when they "introduce" Christ, that's when it got interesting. :) If it helps, maybe look at it as a learning tool. Aesop's fables are also good learning tools - I guess in all of this is I wish you didn't push at the Bible as though it has no merit. I don't believe in its validity either, especially knowing some of its history and how many different versions there are, but the general message is still the same.

All in all it's not God and religion that are the problem, it's people. People are bound with the balance of good and bad and we sway back and forth. The Bible is just a book of stories. Set it on a desk an it's not going to hurt anyone. Two people pick it up and interpret it differently - one does a lot of charity work and spreads the ideas of love, ect. The other goes on a tyrannical path and condemns those who don't fall in line with his thinking.

Atheism is exactly the same. Abracadabra and funches are just as, if not more, passionate than the Christians who have expressed their views in this thread. Abracadabra, you've found your truth in not believing in the Christian God and in a way you want to save others from their folly in their beliefs. How different are you really from missionaries who knock door to door who want to save your soul in your non-belief?

The point of this thread was in a way lost. It is possible for everyone to get along. It's just fine for you to not believe in the Christian God and it's just dandy for them to continue to believe. My God is less omnipotent and leering. I believe in flow, in energy, an underlining current that we are all connected in. We have the ability to affect it with positive energy or negative energy. I believe in balance, not necessarily right or wrong. I've studied many religions and taken the best aspects - or at least what I think the best aspects are, and assimilated them into my life. Some people tell me that I have the basic ideal, but I'm missing pieces, others tell me they never looked at it that way, and some just look at me like I'm crazy. I don't mind any of the responses, my "faith" isn't for them, my faith is for me. It's how I cope and deal with life and I think in general I'm a good person, perhaps a bit selfish, but still overall good.

All three of you seem like your responses are bitter. (Spidercmb, funches, and Abracadabra.) Spider, you are being provoked, let it go. There's no sense in an argument where neither side cares to listen. Believe what you will and let it give you strength. You're right in your faith.

Abracadabra, I very much understand where you're coming from. I saw the holes and inconsistencies in the Bible and it angered me - a lot. Everyone I knew ascribed to the same beliefs and so when I walked away it wasn't just my faith, but my community as well, which made me even more bitter, because none of them understood or even cared to try. I use to get in countless debates and I became just like them but on the other side.

funches, other than semi-supporting Abracadabra and provoking and argument instead of a debate, I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point.

In the end, the moral of the story is, I should probably keep my damn mouth shut and stay out of highly emotional topics.

Fine, fine...point taken...but you also get mine. We aren't as highly evolved intellectually as we'd like to think...and even if we were...God is still infinite and I'm doubtful we can claim the same.

sessiemcsexy

galendgirl

Tribo

funches

abbra


see, two that often disagree can even have a

quiet

spider