A few of the topics that I've browsed through have shown me that there are some things that will never change. There's this struggle, if you will, generally between Christians and atheists. You have the atheists quoting facts and using science to explain why God isn't real and you have Christians using anecdotes and rhetoric or testimonials to prove why He is real.

From the beginning of each argument about this certain topic you have the two sides who absolutely refuse to listen to each other. All they want is to prove their point with whatever methods they choose and have completely closed their minds to the other side. Both have already chosen their opinion and no matter what is presented won't look at it with sincerity. To perhaps answer a question that may be running through your head, I tend to label myself agnostic but even that wouldn't really be correct. However, consider me a passive observer sitting on the fence.

Both wish to persuade the other to their form of thinking and I really do believe that both start off as good natured with genial intent. Things often quickly spiral into heated debates where people leave with anger and discontent. No progress is made on either side and the only thing gained is even more bitterness.

Why then must atheists demand that people who have believed in God their whole lives, lived and breathed those principles and doctrines every day, to suddenly just give up their faith? You can't tell someone who has a religion which is as much a part of them as their skin that they're wrong. Their reactions become explosive.

On the other side, I am picking on Christians a bit, you can't force people to accept your faith as their own, and threaten their souls. Many atheists I've met had bad experiences with faith and have loosed the "shackles". Most don't understand the sort of pressure and worry that sort of change can create and for most that I've known it's been therapeutic to walk away from "God".

In summation, religion is good for some and bad for others. I invite those so inclined to jump into such conversations to maybe take a step back first and really consider, "What am I to gain from stating my opinion?" If it's only a matter of ego - then maybe you should refrain. In the end you won't change their mind anyway.

To each his own. Religion isn't for me but I would never begrudge anyone their faith. Faith is powerful and isn't something to mock. It has moved nations and changed the world. At the same time, I'm not fond of zealots forcing their views down my throat, and having given you the respect to live your life as you choose I would appreciate the same in return.

You are all amazing people, intelligent, and I look forward to chatting with many of you. Don't let ego drive your responses - especially here! Be patient and respectful. Maybe explain what you believe presenting it as open ended instead of fact. Be aware of opposing views and take time to consider them.

Cheers!

Fortunately, I've never had this problem. I am a Christian and always will be....love the screen name by the way... It's cute....

Thanks, it's what my little sis calls me.

I have a confession - I used to be on both sides. When I was religious I was something of a zealot trying to save everyone's souls. I really just wanted to be helpful but I see my mistake now. Things happened, my faith was shattered, and I became bitter and an extreme atheist trying to prove that the Bible was just as mythical as the Odyssey. I was really kind of a jerk about it.

I let go of my animosity, I realized it too was making me miserable, and I didn't like being so negative. I then have come to my own conclusions of what God is, it's not the Christian God, but I'm happy with it. I'm highly stubborn and realized my big problem was that I never listened - so I suppose my advice comes from my own experiences. I'm more open now than I used to be.

Sessie I am often puzzled to the extant that atheists go through to try to prove Christians wrong.I would say your average atheists thinks,talks,and worries more about God than a Christian does.I belive that most atheists secretly want to be a Christian but don't want to give up the all the sinful pleasures.Despite their fighting and bickering atheists always loose the debate because the majority of people(no matter what you believe in)want to believe in someone or something.They want purpose in their lives,and they want answers.A person telling them that they should believe in nothing isn't very motivational since they probably believe in nothing anyways.

As far as someone forcing their beliefs...I seriously don't know what your talking about.I personally have never had a group of Christians arrest me,strap me down to a chair,and put a gun to my head and make me say bible verses.I know of no government institution that says you have to beleive in Jesus.The last time a stranger asked me if I was saved was at least 15 years ago.I have never received a phone call from someone asking about religion.

The Muslim religion on the other hand does shove its religion down your throat.In places like Iraq,Iran,and other middle eastern countries,you are born a Muslim and you are going to stay a Muslim.Crossing over to another religion will get you a swift death.You do not have a choice in the matter.You think you can protest their religion over there?You think you can say one bad thing about it?Not a chance unless you want to loose your head.

I really wish if people were going to bicker about how evil religion is they would pick on the Muslims who is no doubt evil to the core.

I feel truly sad that so many people seem to think that it's either Christianity or Atheism and there really aren't any other choices.

That's the truly sad thing.

A lot of people, Christians in particular, believe that either the Bible is true, or there is no God.

Well, with an attitude like that they are going to do everything in their power to support the Bible because without it their God dies.

I was raised as Christian. But I was fortunate enough to know God long before I was old enough to know what religion even was.

So when I discovered that the Bible is nothing more than manmade garbage it didn't shatter my faith in God. I just realize that the Bible has nothing to do with God.

I guess I never worshiped the Bible ever. I also never viewed Jesus as God. After all, I was taught that he was supposedly the Son of God. Not God himself.

I'm amazed at how many Christians act like Jesus is God. That's not even what the Bible claims.

Also, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are all the same religion. They all arose from the same Mediterranean mythology. Yet look at them. They fell into three parts and hate each other's guts.

Then the Christians fell apart, first there were the protestants who protested against Catholicism, and then the countless denominations of protestantism that are constantly protesting against each other.

This religion is clearly a religion that causes strife and division. Why anyone would think that Christian Protestantism has any merit is beyond me, it's probably the weakest of all the broken fragments of the original folklore.

I'm totally convinced that the Bible is the made up lies of men. There's no question about it. The very stories simply don't represent the wisdom of any supreme being.

The truly sad part is that most Christians won't even give the pagan or pantheistic religions any consideration at all. Yet the religions of Eastern Mysticism are far wiser than Christianity.

Buddhism is probably the wisest religion on Planet Earth. Anyone who believes that God is wise should become a Buddhist.

The biblical picture of God is about the least wise picture of a God that mankind has ever fabricated. They made him out to be a male chaunvinist pig and thristy for blood sacrifices. It's disgusting. It's bearly even removed from the Greek Mythology that probably gave rise to it originally anyway.

The idea that the creator of this unvierse would be interested in blood sacrfices is truly crude.

The biblical (or Mediterranean) based religions are truly hateful judgmental religions that only serve to pit man against man and nation against nation.

Sessie, you mentioned about people arguing religion for egotistical purposes. When I argue against the biblical picture of God I argue against it because it is ultimately a very negative picture of God and humanity. It's only serves to cause political unrest and pits man against man and nation against nation. Historically it has been a blood bath of forced proselytizing.

Individual Christians who claim that they personally don't proselytize are truly a joke. They are a joke because clearly they just make up their own religion and call that "Christianity".

What they don't seem to realize is that by pitching in their two bits as a "Christian" by checking the Christian checkboxes on surveys and whatnot they are actually supporting the organized religion which DOES proselytize and spread hatred and angst around the world.

So just by claiming to be a "Christian" they are feeding the flames of the biogted religious machine.

It's truly sad that they can't see how much ignorance and violence they are contributing to.

I'm not an atheist. I believe in God, but certainly not the horrid hateful God described in the Bible. That a manmade picture of God that has nothing to do with the creator of this universe.

I do hate the religion.

The religion is a hateful religion. It spreads hate and angst throughout the world. It's not about love at all. It's about being bigoted and hateful toward anyone who isn't a Christian.

And yes, there are many people who claim to be 'Christians' who will say, "But wait, I'm not like that and I'm a Christain"

No they aren't a "Christian" they're just hung up on using that label becasue they think it has something to do with Jesus which is what they are truly trying to get at.

It's truly said that Jesus had to get tangled up with such a hateful religion. I'm sure it was never his intent. He taught to do precisely the opposite of what organized Christinity actually does.

Jesus taught not to judge.

Pure and simple.

But that's all that organized Christianity can do! They never stop judging others.

Never.

So they are actually spitting in the very face of the man they claim to worship as God.

They refuse to do as he asked.

I am a Christian and have a strong faith in my personal beliefs. I came to my faith threw my own journey. If someone asks me about my faith, I will gladly share my thoughts. With that said, I believe that the world would be a much better place in we were all compassionate and tolerant towards other’s beliefs. My brother and my dearest friend are both Atheist’s, they are two of the most giving and caring people that I know. My uncle is a Buddhist; he will not even kill a bug. I know Wicca’s, Jews and oh my goodness even a Muslim. All of them kind and caring people. A little more TOLERANCE and the world just might be a better place.

You say that you believe in religious tolerance.

You also claim to be a "Christian".

But the Biblical God was not tolerant of religion. His very first commandment is "Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me"

In fact, the biblical God commanded people as their duty to murder any heathen they came into contact with.

That what the Christian God commanded people to do in the Bible.

Now if you don't believe that God is like that, then why do you worship the Biblical God?

This is what I don't understand.

You call yourself a "Christian" but you refuse to believe what the Bible actually says.

How does that make any sense at all?

How can you claim to believe in a God based on a book, and then deny what the very book claims that God commanded people to do?

That's ludicious.

You make up your own religion and call that "Christianity".

You may as well burn your Bible if you aren't going to believe what it says.

I just don't get it.

You call yourself a "Christian" yet you believe in religious tolerance. But the God of Abraham most vehemently commanded people not to tolerate any other religion.

You are to murder heathens. Your God commanded you to do this as your duty to him and that commandment has never been revoked.

Unless of course you don't believe in the Bible.

But then your claiming to believe in a religion that you don't truly believe in.

If you're looking for an argument or debate, you simply are not going to get one. My faith is just that, my faith. You do not have to agree with it. Commandment number six: You shall not murder.

Peace Hommie

Muslims are not evil.

Granted, There may be some fanatical religious muslim extremists....
(there are extremists found in probably every religious group )..... but muslims are not evil.


That would be like saying chrsitians are evil, because of some extreme fanatical religious group, calling themselves christian.

Agreed!

You need to make up your mind, first you say we are wrong for intolerance, now you say we are wrong for tolerance, you can't have it both ways

Actually, just because there was a time in history that God instructed, no Abraham, but Moses and Aaron to do away with the people in Canaan, does not mean it was that way through the whole Bible, and in fact Jesus did teach tolerance of others and to love even our enemies. You are just twisting things to make it opportunistic for you. You need to quit accusing others of things you do yourself and make it look like its ok for you, but condemn others for what you perceive they are like. You take a few people who are twisted and make it seem like everyone who is a Christian is like that, and it's just not true.
Get a life man.

Abra...for as long as I have been on this board.....

I have noticed that you haven't yet given even one accurate account of what the bible TRULY says.
Not even one.

Just YOUR VERSION only, Abra, is all I have heard from you....yet, I have said nothing.
Til now.

Zip it Abra..or get it right.

But if you can't get it right, stay off the religion forum, and go back to the other religion forum.
No one is attacking you there.....so how about showing us the same respect here.
Okie dokie Abra?


You are welcome to post here, just don't post inaccurate accounts of the bible anymore.
Please.

Share your beliefs here instead...we all love your creative and poetic side, which is quite beautiful to see...
so how about letting just the beautiful you shine thru, instead of being negative all the time .

Amen

Religion and Faith are different things, IMO. I am a Christian, but see so many who use that term and are the least loving, forgiving, and Christ-like people I know - all in the name of their RELIGION. I also tend to be a little bit of a "mutt" in terms of Christianity because my faith makes me see God in even bigger terms than the theological norm.

If God is infinite and we are not...why don't we just trust that both science and theology DO go hand in hand and we just can't quite figure it all out?

I mean, we only use something like 10% of our brains and can't get along with a neighbor half the time.

We dare to question God? Come on!

Very well said Galendgirl

That commandment applies to believers, not everybody. Read the Old Testament when you get a chance and you will see the Gentiles worshiping whatever gods they want, but when the Jews worship strange gods, they get punished. God likens worshiping him and other gods to adultery. If you are a believer, then you are married to God and forbidden from worshiping another God.

There's nothing wrong with that. I'm sure you don't worship more than one god, do you? If so, then why don't you worship Zeus too? How about Thor? Because you worship the god or gods you believe in and not every one that any human has ever worshiped.

Unless you have brain damage, you use 100% of your brain.

10% is used for thought, the rest is the wiring and control portions of the brain.

But beside that point, few Christians oppose science.

Nicely said Spider!! Kudos to you!!

yes let's stop all the debating about religion ..let's no longer call people delusional because they claim thhat their beliefs are truth

let's just let religion run rampant ...let's make the pope the president ..let's bring back the death penalty for heretics ..let's keep women silence and only let Men do the talking and make the major decisions ..let's start holy wars and invade those countries that has different religious beliefs than us....let's place the world totally under the rules of a religious God and stone unruly children and adulterers to death

or we could just debate and make people accountable for the beliefs they sprew to the public as being truth

as you see..it only take one belief to bring horror to the world

There is a difference between debating and tearing someone apart for their beliefs. Generally, to me, when debating, you express your beliefs, but not by acting and doing the very same things that you are saying the other side it doing. Someone can't say something like "They want to force their beliefs on everyone, and not look at the others side", then turn around and act the very same way they are accusing the other side. That makes do sense to go around calling names. I don't do that to anyone, yet a lot of others come into the religion forum and calls us anything they want. If they don't believe in religion, why bother coming to this site in the first place. There are plenty of other places on this site to say whatever they want, and not be attacked the way they verbally attack us, and think we should just sit back and take it. I don't think so. People need to get a life.